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You're shorting eur/chf after an up-spike with a 30 point stop 10 pt spread and 70 point max to SNB peg?
Brave man. Looks like short stops got tw@ted to me. I'll be watching how it plays out.
 
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You're shorting eur/chf after an up-spike with a 30 point stop 10 pt spread and 70 point max to SNB peg?
Brave man. Looks like short stops got tw@ted to me. I'll be watching how it plays out.

price quickly moved to first trouble area and I went to b/e where planned and got stopped out for 0 (price only exceeded stop by 2 pips at time of writing). only 2 point spread for me with 53 point initial stop .Will be interesting to see what happens to price now.

The collecting of the short stops by the pin bar was actually another reason I took the tarde. To me it looked like some manipulation south was happening. I also trade manipulation setups but need to build up my knowledge on these. When that pin took out the previous 2 lower highs price someone was clearly going for the buy stops orders there and I am guessing a larger player filled those buy stop orders by selling. This revealed the hand of the larger players as on the short side and added weight to the trade.
 
whilst on the subject or price manipulation the London morning session proved interesting. We had a nice tight overnight range. Look how price took out stops at 3 & 4. This had price manipulation written all over it imo.
 

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I fail to see why there'd be much manipulation suth with the SNB committed to hoovering up anything thrown at them.
 
whilst on the subject or price manipulation the London morning session proved interesting. We had a nice tight overnight range. Look how price took out stops at 3 & 4. This had price manipulation written all over it imo.

IMO, this view is absolutely spot on, double whip stop take then
profit release. You often notice that the drive towards stops is
very consistent with no real retrace unlike the profit release when
MM's are selling into the rise/fall for profit.
 
IMO, this view is absolutely spot on, double whip stop take then
profit release. You often notice that the drive towards stops is
very consistent with no real retrace unlike the profit release when
MM's are selling into the rise/fall for profit.

yeah when you see the double whip saw after a tight period of consolidation it is suspicious. as the MM's tend to accumulate their positions in narrow ranges to avoid showing their hand.
 
I fail to see why there'd be much manipulation suth with the SNB committed to hoovering up anything thrown at them.

doesn't need to be much south for them to make a profit dude. When you consider the likely candidates for such a move would be 1 or more of 10ish IB's interbank FX desk so they are likely to be out before any further SNB intervention. You are being naive if you think a MM FX desk is going to get caught out by any central bank intervention, wont happen.

look at the attached chart, don't forget they would have been filled at the 2 red lines when the smaller traders buy stop orders triggered. so they could be out already for 45-60 pips at these volumes this is not chump change and I don't even know if they are done selling yet I doubt it as the price need to be lower for the smaller traders to take the bait and get short again. These guys earn the spread but they need to play a few games to top up the kitty, someones got to pay for the bonuses.
 

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Guys it isnt manipulation - it is natural market behaviour.

Besides, you'd laugh if you actually knew what goes on at bank fx desks. They dont sit there with james bond outfits, it's more like tweedle dum and tweedle dee in all the ones I dealt with.
 
Guys it isnt manipulation - it is natural market behaviour.

Define "Natural market behaviour". Do you think that if the market was being manipulated it would be made obvious? There are many philanthropists in this forum who freely tell us what the market is going to do next but manipulators aren't nearly as generous.
 
Define "Natural market behaviour". Do you think that if the market was being manipulated it would be made obvious? There are many philanthropists in this forum who freely tell us what the market is going to do next but manipulators aren't nearly as generous.

There's a few ways to look at this.

If there's stops above, from people that shorted, then these stops are buy orders.

So, if the price is 102.44 and there are buy stops at 102.60, the buy stops are actually buyers willing to buy 102.60.

If you were a seller and you figured that there were a lot of buyers willing to buy at that high price, how motivated would you be to sell at 102.44? Why not wait and get the additional 16c.

Given this, it is natural for the market to seek out that high priced liquidity. The fact that it can de-motivate sellers is enough to see prices rise.

In terms of short term manipulation, it does occur but it does not occur predictably. If people always manipulated the market in the same way, they'd end up being taken advantage of themselves.

You can of course fade a stop run (which might actually be a lack of motivated sellers due to liquidity above) which is effectively taking advantage of manipulation after it occurs but you never know if that short term manipulation will gather steam and become the start of a longer term move.

At best, you can spot manipulation on a DOM in the very short term but it's a tough job and there is lower hanging fruit to pick IMO.
 
I get what you're saying DT but how much does it take to spike FX spot vs an Index futures contract or single stock? Especially when there's CB involvement. I don't see it in this instance personally.

Gammajammer told me something about sketchy action that desks take to (not) breach FX touch options depending on exposure. I'd guess the expiry has more to do with it than anything else.
 
I get what you're saying DT but how much does it take to spike FX spot vs an Index futures contract or single stock? Especially when there's CB involvement. I don't see it in this instance personally.

Gammajammer told me something about sketchy action that desks take to (not) breach FX touch options depending on exposure. I'd guess the expiry has more to do with it than anything else.

I have no idea Scose - I don't touch Forex. I hear what you are saying though - it's a big old market...
 
The spot fx market is controlled by 8 to 10 large banks who we can call tier 1. Almost all transactions end up going through them at some point. They ARE the market makers. If they are mostly on the same side of a position it's very easy for them to operate in congruence with each other to move the market.

Peter
 
Big if though. S'all dependant on client orders and positions on other desks innit bruv.

Remember the banks know where the orders are, they are dealing in $$ millions in a single position, and they are market makers so order flow is fine. If they move the market to get out of a 5000 contract position with a profit then the few orders from small time traders, punters, and smaller institutions that they take on is rather miniscule. In other words it's acceptable to exit a 5000 long at a profit but pick up 150 long while doing it.

Peter
 
My explanation probably leaves a lot to be desired. That's why I could never become a teacher :)

Peter
 
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