Can you really make a living from trading?

Can you really make a living from trading?

I want to share with you my experiences trading, if you feel like sharing your thoughts with me please do.

Back in October I heard about DTTP, a trading system which, in T2W I understand nobody follow. I read a thread on T2W asking for reviews on it, and after some time somebody answered that on this website, probably nobody follow systems. Of 70 thousend traders registered in T2W, nobody have an opinion on it. Well, I subscribed anyway, and I`ve been following it since, and I know it does make profits, but over time and with a lot of patience. But I don`t have patience, so I follow the advice of T2W traders, of working on my own system to make profits, and I have lost a lot of money, and I am still uncertain of every indicator. After 5 months trying to earn money consistently, I always manage to lose it afterwards.

My biggest profits actually were in November, not knowing anything (indicators) I made a lot of money. I just followed my gut in some trades, and also bad luck was inverted into good luck (I mean, forgetting to erase the pending stops, and then earning a lot of money because of that mistake). But in December I got exited and I lost all this money I made in November and more. I stopped trading until April, and following 3 systems which make me some profits, but not much, since they advice not to risk more than 5% of the trading capital on each transactions, so I can`t really live from these profits.

I have read another thread of a trader asking for a system in T2W, took me 5 days to read it completely, and the conclusion is again that there`s not a perfect system. And a good advice was actually not taking courses, but the money is better to spend it actually trading the markets, and learning from experience. I`ve been following this advice.

I really would like to learn intraday trading, a way to profit from every single trade I made. Is that possible? I`ve just bought a book (Trading Chaos Bill Williams) which promise that it is possible, but the system is so dead easy that I really find it hard to follow. Is almost as I did back in November, just following my instincts, but now I find it really hard to do it.

The book says that 10% of traders are profiting consistently. But as I understand, you can`t do all the time the same system. A system gives you some profits, and some loses, and hopefully you manage the stops, so the profits are bigger than the loses. That`s OK. So I understand good traders, I mean this group of traders that always make profits, have a box of tools, and depending on the market mood, they choose what tools to use. This is where I get confused.

I just hope some people with years of experience could give me some hope. Normally new traders quit trading after 3 months, and I am in that stage where you have to keep going on, either trading or finding a job. That`s the big decision I have to make.

Well, I love to trade, and I will do anything that take to be a good trader. I just hope is like learning to drive a car, after years driving, I don`t even have to think now on all the factors that you keep in mind when learning.

Just to finish, what a great site this T2W is!!! The traderpedia is excellent, and all the threads, which I will never have the time to go through all of them.

I would love to know about your own experiences.

Thanks

Hi Kenotoriello

Do you mean this trading system?

http://www.dttptrader.co.uk/index.php

Fibonelli

Hello Ken.

Yes, You can make a living from trading. Am i a full time trader? Not yet, i've got twelve months, then i'm debt free.

I will have been trading for 5 years then, i've blown 2 accounts through lack of dicipline, over-sizing, chasing losses, you name the rule i've probably broke it.

When you finish breaking the rules and paying for them, it's only then do you realise to do it properly, or not at all.

Good luck.

Yes, DTTP means Don`t Tell The Professionals, www.dttp.co.uk. It is quite a good system, although to make a living from it I would need a lot of £££££, that`s why I am trying to learn intraday trading, hearing the markets, dancing with the markets, etc. I just want to be sure that it is possible to make a living from trading, to keep going. If not, I`d better start looking for a job, you know what I mean.

but not much, since they advice not to risk more than 5% of the trading capital on each transactions, so I can`t really live from these profits

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5% of capital per trade is way too much to risk in my and many others view. I wouldn't risk more than 0.5 of 1% and most I know don't risk more than 1% maximum.

It is also not possible to make a profit on every single trade especially as a daytrader. You haven't said much about the type of trading you were engaged in and how you determine when to enter and exit. Also do you understand about instrument volatility and dynamic position sizing relative to it in the time frame that you are trading in ?

There is a lot more to successful trading than having a supposed trading system and understanding risk management is, in my view, probably the most important aspect for long term survival and success.


Paul

Yes you can make money trading. You can make a good to exceptional living at it.

But most fail, probably not because they can't succeed but for a combination of reasons:
- no valid and tested (by you) system
- psych hang ups (you are now screwed up, try trading in the zone to understand your problems)
- not enough money (eod trading you must be able to make your money risking no more than 2% per trade, intraday 1%, and in both cases assume that the reality will be 50% worse than your systems best theoretical performance).

To win.
- get a system that works and start paper trading it until you can consistently take 50-100 signals without error (this will help with your confidence and also forward test the system).
- read trading in the zone ... really get into it and understand it so read 10 pages every day after you've read it the first time
- when (AND ONLY WHEN) you've done the above start to risk the minimum amount of cash possible on your system
- when you have 50-100 signals without error then increase your size; keep increasing every 50-100 as long as you stay under your risk percentage.

If you take a short cut you will fail. And it will be your fault. Yours alone.

kenotoriello said:

But I don`t have patience

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Solution? yes, learn patience. Quickly


Its really a big task to righfoot the lone hiker. But on these boards Mr Marcus put it very well. (not an exact quote, but thumps home)

Before taking any trade the trader should ask himself , Is the markets current trend showing signs of weakening ? If we cannot answer that question then we shouldn't be trading.

Outstanding. Think about that.

Happy sunday.

CB.

kenotoriello said:

Yes, DTTP means Don`t Tell The Professionals, www.dttp.co.uk. It is quite a good system, although to make a living from it I would need a lot of £££££,

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wow, thats a blast from the past. "Dont Tell The Professionals" by Keith Cotteril was the first book about trading I ever bought when I was a fresh-out-of-school newbie looking for a holy grail system back in the early 1990's :cheesy:

Whilst it covers some interesting principles and some basics, I couldn't find any systematic trading rules or even a general methodology for getting into trades alongside the "professionals".

I actually read it again a few months ago, just out of curiousity to see if I'd missed anything the first time round, but drew a blank once more - doh!

Please, the thread is not about DTTP and how good or bad it is.

The main question is how long it takes and what it takes to become a profitable and consistent trader?

thats exactly why I didnt say "DTTP sucks ass, dont buy it!"

I had been a full time trader for about 6 years and yes, I can and have MADE a living from trading.

Study is the answer?

Hi,

I appreciate all your comments.

My experience back in November and December was quite easy. I opened an account with CMC Markets, and then I realized that it has wonderful Graphs, in real time. Just looking at the price movement, I noticed certain markets suddenly jump to new levels, so fast and furious, that after watching this happened in Crude Oil and some Mayor Pairs in Forex, I decided to keep an eye on these Graphs, as I said, with only a price line (not indicators on the graph).
Everytime I saw the price jumping, I climbed “in this bus” and as soon as the speed of “this bus” came to a stop, I jump off, selling. It was SO EASY that I even started to put more and more money on it. After a week I started to place Stop Loss in my orders, but really far away, let`s say at the support of the previous day, so the price could go up and down as it usually does, and then carry on with the expected main trend.
It was SO EASY, as I said, that then I begun to feel guilty, not knowing anything. The markets felt like a cow full of milk, bursting to get milky.
As I said, I stopped betting in December, mainly because I was abroad, and my laptop shut down many times suddenly (I reckoned because the electricity power is different abroad, as I was in South America, plus the connection speed being so long changed dramatically), leaving me with open positions, in a very uncomfortable position (sometimes there are whipsaws).

So I gave up intraday trading, and just opened a Long position in Crude Oil at a price of $53, with a stop at $50, after an announcement that convince me that the only way the price could go was UP. I risked more money than I should, and when things are so certain, well, the price came down to my stop level before heading north.

Well, back to England, I decided to take this seriously, and I have read lots of posts in T2W saying that the Stop Loss should be near the Entry Price, so I can have many losses and few profits, and still make a lot of money. Well, this advice has really worked against me in the last month, plus the fact that GBP and EUR are not really trending, so I usually get stopped with losses.
Now, when the price does advance in my favour, it usually doesn`t stay at the new level, coming back to stop me. So, I am now moving my stops like a trailing stop looking at the low of the last 5 bars.
I am looking at candlesticks, I am looking at indicators like MacD, Stochastics, RSI, Moving Averages, S&R, Pivots Points and SAR
I am looking at different time frames as well, I feel in control. BUT I KEEP LOOSING MONEY.

I am not earning money, I have being doing this 12 hours daily for the past month, and have lost money, so I feel betrayed.

Well, I have asked this question because maybe it`s just that I keep receiving mails from companies advertising wonderfull systems that allow people to live like millionaires. Maybe it`s just bluff.

But I`ve been following the Forex thread as it goes, and I know there`s people out there that make a living from this, although they do make mistakes from time to time.

I have also finished the book Trading Chaos 2 – Bill Williams, which I bough because I like the approach, and I enjoy the way to trade. Half of the book is about psychology, and yes, although I like to trade, and I do it with a system, there`s still something inside me, that I am not making profits.

Last night I downloaded Law of Charts, and hundreds of books on trading. There`s so much to read and learn! So sure, this must be different to gambling.

I find difficult to trade with the trend. “The trend is your friend”. But when looking at a monthly chart the trend is long, daily chart the trend is short, hourly trend is long, and there I am, looking at a 5 min chart, looking at an indecisive price, jumping up and down, catching my stops, placed 10 to 13 pips away of my Entry Prices, as advice for Scalping.

I think one of the stages to become a good trader is going through a period of madness as well. I just hope this madness is temporary.

Keno

about five years to get good, took me four, was trading for a living at 3.

the longer the timeframe, the higher the success rate the bigger the pip count and the lower the transaction costs. Anything below a 1 hour chart is just noise and a 5 min chart is just a slot machine.

all my opinion of course - there are people who make good money on a 5 min chart consistently - just that i've not met any yet who can prove it over time

Mmm, interesting, because I have been doing rather well with daily charts. The profits come in an average of 44 days in my case. Just seems to be a long time, and the money is just stuck for that period (a mental controlled risk).

So maybe there is a way of profiting from 5 mins charts. Maybe I was wrong and there is not. My last month being trading 5 and 30 mins charts have been more bad than good, I have just catched a couple of good trends, but the amount of money lost with these small losses from stops have been horrible.

In Forex I can`t make my mind. Some announcements are very important, and the banks seem to play with them. If I took a long position based on a 30 mins chart, and there is an announcement soon, I move my stop near the price just in case the price move in the opposite direction. And it usually does, it moves just randomly, sometimes for half an hour before taking the correct direction based on the news. So it really feels like gambling.

Anyway, I keep repeating to myself

"A Winner never Quits, and a Quitter never Wins".

So I`ll keep studying and practising.

Keno

kenotoriello said:

Anyway, I keep repeating to myself

"A Winner never Quits, and a Quitter never Wins".

So I`ll keep studying and practising.

Keno

Click to expand...

click here for the song

Song

Thanks for the song, I enjoyed it. It does push me to work harder.


I have another motto:

"Where there`s a will, there`s a way"


Of course, my goal is to make money, consistently, working this tradings as a business. And my first target is to learn a lot, to know what I am doing.

Although I have lost some money (about 1/4), I am still not broke, and as far as I have tried this business, I really enjoy trading.

So I`ll keep trying.

kenotoriello said:

The main question is how long it takes and what it takes to become a profitable and consistent trader?

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Two years full time I'd say would be the rough rule of thumb.

Maybe Indices

2 years full time?
Gosh, that`s a lot.
I hope you mean 2 years to be consistent, and no 2 years to be profitable.
At least I have survived 5 months.

I know is not a good idea to have all the eggs in the same basket, so I have shares in USA and shares in UK, through CMC, plus 1 or 2 commodities a month, which have all been quite profitable. That`s good, that`s why I am not broke.

But I want to live from this, so I decided to learn Forex to trade from 7am till I am tired, normally around 8pm. I want to do this for a couple of years, to earn more money and increase my capital, so after 2 years being able to work just with daily charts.

But Forex ain`t easy, the announcements... you know.

Would it be easier Indices? I had a look at Dow Jones graph last week, I saw a trend, buy in the bottoms, sell at the tops, I did about 80 pips out of a range of 40. Very good indeed! I went back the next day, ready for action, but couldn`t determine the right channel, and lost many pips.

kenotoriello said:

2 years full time?
Gosh, that`s a lot.
I hope you mean 2 years to be consistent, and no 2 years to be profitable.
At least I have survived 5 months.

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It took me 18 months of trying out various systems, devising tweaks etc before the "eureka moment" and I started making money. I lost initially and then after learning money management treaded water for about a year, doing well for a while only to give it all back in a short time.

Part of my learning experience was as much learning how to properly test strategies as well as coming up with them, initially I thought I had profitable setups (i.e. pip positive) only to learn later when I'd refined my backtesting that they in fact were £-ve.

Don't give up, but don't expect miracles, you probably won't make much (if any) money this year. The more time goes on - the more you learn. All goes wonderfully for a while and You start to think that there's nothing more to learn - then the market suprises you and you come out the other end wiser (if a little bruised).