The Journey from the Basement

From the Moderators:

PLEASE READ THIS - and heed the warning

This thread is devoted to Socrates' allegories relating to trader psychology, which combine to help raise advanced traders from the basement to the rarified levels of trading attained by very few. This thread forms part of the 'dark arts' of trading using just price and volume bars (no indicators or signals), and on this thread the practitioners of price and volume are referred to as 'darksiders'.

This thread is NOT to be used for debate, nor for posting your opinions of the style/manner in which this thread is formed - it is solely for those who are prepared to respond in a respectful and educated manner to the allegories and experiences posed by Socrates.

Debate and opinions can be posted on 8,000 threads on these boards but NOT on this thread nor the No Indicators Revisited thread.

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Regrettably this has had to be stated as there are a handful of posters on these boards who have neither the manners nor the respect to allow other traders to share their valuable knowledge with others in posts on this thread, and on the No Indicators Revisted thread, without being attacked.

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## ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER ONE ## FIRST PART:~

Dear Frugi,

Ok, I understand your difficulty.
Let us create a model.
The model we will create will be a simple one whose function will be to illustrate a point.
Supposing we find ourselves in the jungle, in Brazil, and we are lucky to see the twig bird in action.
This is most likely to be the sequence of events.
The twig bird flies in with a very thin twig in its beak. It lands on a decaying tree trunk lying on its side, in a clearing. It finds a little hole in which there is a worm. It prods the worm with the twig.

The worm recoils and hides deeper in the hole. The bird persists. The worm moves from the first hole to another hole because underneath is a honecomb of tunnels the worms have burrowed. The bird drops the twig and flies away. Is this a failure ? No .

The bird returns and lands on the same spot., with a larger, but shorrter twig in its beak.
It puts its attention on the same hole as before. It picks up the thin twig in its beak. it proceeds to prod the same worm again. The worm squirms and migrates.

The bird observes this and uses the larger twig to plug a potential exit. It prods again using the thin twig. The worm squirms and migrates in another direction.The bird flies off again.

This time the bird has two twigs in its beak, both fat and short. The two fat twigs are laid down on the tree trunk. The bird once again picks up the thin twig and begins to prod. The worm squirms.

The bird chooses a hole to plug and plugs it. This process of prodding and plugging is continued until the worm is forced to come out of the only available hole that is not plugged
The bird has a very long beak, like a kingfisher. It plucks the worm and flies away with it.

Now sir, what I have explained to you above is a parallel model of what happened with the bars.
The last bar was dropped down just sufficiently to trigger the stop, this winkled out the targeted instrument in a similar way that the worm was winkled out of the hole.
If you do not still understand it I am willing to explain it again until you do.

CONTINUED ON #6

just noticed - a bird in brasil - sounds like me love life......

LOL what exactly r u implying Socrates? she winkled me out of my hole?

shall i go back to good essex ones preying round in the likes of China White night clubs?

china white said:

just noticed - a bird in brasil - sounds like me love life......

LOL what exactly r u implying Socrates? she winkled me out of my hole?

shall i go back to good essex ones preying round in the likes of China White night clubs?

Click to expand...

No, ha! ha! what I am implying........is that illustrating a concept using parables......is an effecive method of passing on knowledge....without disturbing that which must not be disturbed.
Do you now get my drift, China ?

Oh ! And by the way, have you all noticed how the Court Jester has not appeared for a long time, I do wish he would come out and do a pirouette or something entertaining to break the monotony of seriousness. The Principal Court Jester, that is. Gone quiet....

Perhaps he is wary of getting his head chopped off.

Regards

bracke

The Story of The Twig Bird Contnued.....ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER ONE ~ CONTINUED
FROM #1

Now Frugi,

The Twig Bird, having flown away to it's nest, and fed its chicks with the worm it has just caught,
"remembers" that there are more worms to be had, as the log just does not have one hole, you see,
the log is peppered with holes. Some of these holes will be occupied by worms and others will be empty.
It is now up to the Twig Bird, who has a family to feed, to find out how many worms there are and whether chey can be got. for the purpose of feeding. The purpose of feeding is different to the concept of food, this is an important point to grab. Food is incidental, whereas feeding is systematic, Bramble pay attention.
The bird is very clever because it able to remember the route it has to take also so as not to fly into danger.
In a jungle not every creature is inoffensive. There are some very nasty ones about with evil intentions, some through laziness, others through greed, others through hope, others are poisonous and so on.
We are observers of all this, and we are impartial, and not only that, but also we are able to come and go as we wish. All the creatures that inhabit the jungle are condemned to live there all the time and have to compete to to survive. We can go home and lock the doors, and draw the curtains, and feel safe. But I digress.....Now the Twig Bird goes back to the log and it sees there is a Wart Hog sniffing there, the Wart Hog is only sniffing for Mushrooms, but the Twig Bird does not feel safe in approaching. So it perches on a branch some small distance away and observes the Wart Hog to calculate if it is safe to proceed.
The Wart Hog becomes distracted and wanders off in another direction.Now the Twig Bird spots the opportunity to land on the tree trunk unmolested and with minimum fo risk because the Twig Bird is very astute. The Twig Bird warbles. This is to see if anyone of any consequence to its safety is around, there is no response, although not far away there is a big snake, but it is coiled up under a tree, having a snooze.
When the Twig Bird is satisfied that it is not being watched, that what it is about to do is not understood, and thet there are no other Twig Birds about to compete, It swiftly repeats the operation of the thin twig,
the prodding, the plugging and the plucking, and flies off again as quickly as it can back to its hungry chicks that need feeding, and so the cycle is repeated until no more worms are left. When there are no worms left this particular log all the worms have been lifted. The value of the lifted worms is enhanced in terms of the amount of effort required to find more. One could say that the Jungle Price of edible worms has gone up.

Then the "Prescott" bird ( Hasn't an original thought in its' head), saw the last foray of the twig Bird, and tells it's pals that there is easy food at the old tree stump. A big flurry of interest ensues as they all fight to get access to the log. The volume of noise and activity increases sharply as more "Prescotts" flock to the log.

If you had a volume meter the needle would spike up sharply.

Suddenly, it dawns upon the greedy feeders that there are no more worms. The "Prescott" bird and his pals have expended much energy for no real gain. They fly off as suddenly as they arrived, still hungry. The noise meter registers a sudden drop off in activity and noise.

But some hang around thinking that it will be easier to hunt now that many have flown away. They wait and wait but are forced, due to lack of food, to eventually leave and find food elsewhere.

The Twig Bird has not forgotten the log but waits for it to be re-colonized by worms, such worms are not likely to ignore a useful souce of habitat and food.Eventually the log becomes home to many worms, enough to make it worthwhile for the Twig Bird to return for another series of feeds. He is cautious and does not advertise its' presence to the "Prescott" gang.

Eventually the "Prescott", who has several homes and can transport himself by more than one means, notices the steady coming and going of the Twig Bird and decides to get in on the action. As before, the added attention of the Prescott gang creates a feeding frenzy sending noise levels spiking off the meter.

But Twig Bird is not worried, it knows it has eaten the last worm, and flies off to new feeding sites, putting the present log on its' watch list to begin the cycle all over again.

Apologies to Socrates

The Twig Bird continued

neil said:

Then the "Prescott" bird ( Hasn't an original thought in its' head), saw the last foray of the twig Bird, and tells it's pals that there is easy food at the old tree stump. A big flurry of interest ensues as they all fight to get access to the log. The volume of noise and activity increases sharply as more "Prescotts" flock to the log.

If you had a volume meter the needle would spike up sharply.

Suddenly, it dawns upon the greedy feeders that there are no more worms. The "Prescott" bird and his pals have expended much energy for no real gain. They fly off as suddenly as they arrived, still hungry. The noise meter registers a sudden drop off in activity and noise.

But some hang around thinking that it will be easier to hunt now that many have flown away. They wait and wait but are forced, due to lack of food, to eventually leave and find food elsewhere.

The Twig Bird has not forgotten the log but waits for it to be re-colonized by worms, such worms are not likely to ignore a useful souce of habitat and food.Eventually the log becomes home to many worms, enough to make it worthwhile for the Twig Bird to return for another series of feeds. He is cautious and does not advertise its' presence to the "Prescott" gang.

Eventually the "Prescott", who has several homes and can transport himself by more than one means, notices the steady coming and going of the Twig Bird and decides to get in on the action. As before, the added attention of the Prescott gang creates a feeding frenzy sending noise levels spiking off the meter.

But Twig Bird is not worried, it knows it has eaten the last worm, and flies off to new feeding sites, putting the present log on its' watch list to begin the cycle all over again.

Apologies to Socrates

Click to expand...

Neil, that is perfectly right, let us tell the story in sequence otherwise if it is out of sequence the audience will be baffled. The object is to "enlighten" using allegory, in sequence, do you get my drift, wihtout letting cats out of bags. And you and I know perfectly well what it is we are talking about but this is not for everyone, and I have been taught bitter lessons that I have learnt and therefore do not repeat blunders. And the 4 observers in the gallery are watching
quiet as mice, but we can see you ! LOL.

ok -been spotted again - (twitcher) - the Harry Potter cloak isn't working (again)

I see the picture parable with an Andean perspective and view it as condors seeing carrion from a great height and distance away. Very often it is not the actual carrion that the condor sees but the sight of another condor (who is always under observation) descending towards carrion or towards another condor descending towards carrion. Whatever! The point I would like to add is that after the big birds have fed there is usually enough for the smaller birds to have their fill. Indeed it is often that the carrion is discovered by the smaller birds who start to feed and the condors are then attracted and chase them off. The smaller birds withdraw to a safe distance and return to feed on small crumbs when when their safety is not compromised.

I hope this does not cloud the picture or waste space or time as we are talking in bird/hunter metaphors just now.

nul point

Sorry Rognvald,
Don't take this as a personal criticism, but you have simply muddied the waters.
I will not enlarge on my comment since I would be trespassing on the domain of Socrates.

Very good neil, keep quiet please, I have got the crib, I know you know so don't spoil it. You all have to wait for the next instalment in the story, to be followed soon, written in allegorical form to protect that which has to be protected. You see how I have tried elsewhere in other ways and it is misunderstood and ridiculed by the dunces. Now we all know what it is we are talking about., and if we face real difficulties that would seriously threaten our interest we will resort to communicating by relocating to an alternative theatre parallel with private messaging.

not at all neil - if you want to tell me why you think so please pm me as you feel it is inappropriate here

Rognvald

Looks like neil is giving you the bird!

Regards

bracke

Wrong perception.

bracke said:

Rognvald

Looks like neil is giving you the bird!

Regards

bracke

Click to expand...

What is happening is not what you think is happening, what you are experiencing is having
landed right in the middle of the most superb example of dramatic irony yet exhibited on
this website. Follow my posts, notwithstanding, you will benefit, but hen you have to be
ready to recognise first and accept second and enact third.

SOCRATES

You presume to know what I am thinking, you may be right , you may be wrong but it is a presumption.

"Dramatic irony" - that one you will have to explain.

I will folllow your posts because I am interested to see where they go and I may learn something.

Regards

bracke

bracke said:

SOCRATES

You presume to know what I am thinking, you may be right , you may be wrong but it is a presumption.

"Dramatic irony" - that one you will have to explain.

I will folllow your posts because I am interested to see where they go and I may learn something.

Regards

bracke

Click to expand...

Yes of course, don't worry.

Dramatic Irony:~

Dramatic Irony is a device used in comedy to add tension or interest to a scene.
It involves several people enjoying and sharing a joke, or discussing a topic or an event etc.,
At this moment, someone appears and, not having an understanding of what has gone on
before his appearance, makes a statement, or strikes a posture, or adopts an attitude,
or does something which, when considered against the background and meaning of
what has just happened, is comical.
It is no way malicious, but circumstantially funny.
If you watch TV carefully you will observe that there are many programmes that
are fundamentally boring but are spiced up with such devices by the scriptwriters
who have succeeded in evolving the technique into a subliminal art form.
This is why many soaps seem "not quite right "in terms of story line, but are watchable.
Subconsciously the viewer cannot "pin" where the fault is, as this device is effective in
diverting attention. In adddition a further device is contrived to continue the process.
Hence the story line is ignored subconsciously and the humour is highlighted consciously.
This blend, and its manipulation, has a direct consequence on the ratings.

SOCRATES

Thank you for your explanation of Dramatic Irony. ( soaps watchable,I think not ! ).

In this case I suspect that the numbers of people involved are in reverse ie a few people are sharing the joke and a larger number of people have entered and do not know what is going on. At this point it gets interesting, if the majority see things another way, that, rightly or wrongly, becomes the accepted; majority rule, even if they are incorrect.

Time you explained the Dramatic Irony to the recently appeared.

Regards

bracke

I'm enjoying the sensible stuff but the cryptic stuff leaves me bafled...

bracke said:

SOCRATES

Thank you for your explanation of Dramatic Irony. ( soaps watchable,I think not ! ).

In this case I suspect that the numbers of people involved are in reverse ie a few people are sharing the joke and a larger number of people have entered and do not know what is going on. At this point it gets interesting, if the majority see things another way, that, rightly or wrongly, becomes the accepted; majority rule, even if they are incorrect.

Time you explained the Dramatic Irony to the recently appeared.

Regards

bracke

Click to expand...

The Dramatic Irony occurred because some members are finely tuned and others may or may not be or simply arrive late.

In consequence of this , and as a result of having the rest of the day off, I have also been
looking at what people who purport to be engaged in the serious profession of trading
are capable of uttering and blurting on other threads as well.

When I first stumbled across T2W, I thought this was a apalling, and, I tried to heighten discussions by trying to elevate the topic to a higher level to see what response I would get from coming at it from a great height. I am pleased to tell you that the excercise has been very very interesting and rewarding to me.

There is a polarity which is much more marked than I previously anticipated.

By this I mean that in the middle of serious interesting discussions suddenly someone
would venture to topically interject out of context either out of rudeness, or lack of understanding, or lack of knowledge, or impertinence, or impatience, or or any other variety
of what we call "the inabilities". Also I discovered that there are serial interruptors, serial snipers, serial mockers, serial disruptors and serial clowns. These anomalies appear
in groups of five, have you noticed ?

But what I have also discovered is that there is a small percentage of members who are distinguished by the quality of their thinking, and these are the ones that interest me.

As a consequence of very knowledgeable people having to have paid a very high price for the acquisition thereof, you can understand a lot of testing has to be carried out between contributors to determine who is gifted and who is not, who is developed and who is not, who has the right qualities and who has not, who is worthwhile and who is not and who can be helped and who can not. be ever.

All this is in the end result the potential polarisation of like minded people recognising each other first and then we shall see afterwards....

All this takes time, I assure you that while all this is going on the really gifted ones remain quiet, observing developments. They are not unseen they are very visible to me by their conspicuous absence, public absence, that is. Hello !

And so bit by bit the real darksiders are beginning to put down markers that are recognised.
Some of these markers are overt, and some are covert. These markers are only discernible and detectable by the right people to recognise, who must be accomplished darksiders themselves, like a crossword puzzle, you see ? And so quietly a pyramid is being constructed.

Now that I have been able to more or less establish who' s who, am I preparing for the next stage. In consequence of the top darksiders being very advanced and all of us having to have undergone a baptism of fire in order to crack it in order to get where we are therefore there is a marked reluctance to talk openly and in public with "unknown, unquantifaiable entities" until such time as they can prove what ever it is thery have to prove, and their credentials shown to be acceptable.There is still plenty of time for that, there is no rush, our use of time is different to everybody else's.

However, you will find that everything is explained Very Clearly Indeed ~ it is up to the member to sift and read carefully as none of it is nonsense. This requires effort which many aspirants are reluctant or unwilling to put in. Therefore there is a limit to what can be put out only for it to be denegrated by those least fit to offer any views whatsoever.

Therefore I do not submerge as the mission is not complete but we are changing course:#because this is the wisest course to follow# there are many contributors who are deserving of help who will not be abandoned, and explanations as far as is practically possible will be given to help them.

However I decided in order to make the postings less "dull" TIC, many explanations will now be given in allegorical form, because in this way it is taken one notch higher, and those that I seek to winkle out will understand my postings absolutely completely setting off lightbulbs inside their heads because these are ready for it.

Everybody else will benefit hugely. The dunces will be baffled. We are going to have some fun with them as well, because not everything can be greviously serious, we have to make room for light amusement as well frome time to time.

The next series of discourses wil be entitled "Animal Lessons" and numbered.
This is because animals are not contaminated by the vices of humanity.
Therefore the antics of animals lend themselves perfectly to illustrate concepts.
I shall be preparing the first in the series later.

SOCRATES said:

The dunces will be baffled. We are going to have some fun with them as well, because not everything can be greviously serious, we have to make room for light amusement as well frome time to time.

Click to expand...

I hope that you are not going to mock the afflicted or embarrass those who look to learn but lack understanding or experience. That would be cruel and unworthy.

Regards

bracke