System sellers on T2W?

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With over ten years experience (yes, broke several times) and a regular forum contributor on Trade2win.com

Not just a regular contributor a "forum advisor" no less.

At least this one has a vendor badge !
 
Not just a regular contributor a "forum advisor" no less.

At least this one has a vendor badge !

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I have hours and hours of free time so decided to market my system, just for fun .
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The above sentence sounds all too familiar to Dr Zuppy.

He is posting links to the Dow system and fx system, yet states I actually make my money from trading, not from selling systems"

I would rather buy systems from morons.
 
It is curious that:

1) They make 400 pips a month profit and place 20 trades a week so 400/80 = 5 pips profit on average per trade. This is marginal in my view unless they are scalping which from the chart they are not.

2) They quote
Everybody wants Forex - big mistake!
and then have a link to a forex trading system.


Paul
 
Having been exciled on the same barren rock of an island as this particular vendor, I can understand and even sympathise that he finds himself with hours and hours of free time, indeed Dr Zuppy did some of his finest systems development work from his place about 5 miles along the same coastline

As you know, I dont have a problem with system vendors, or providers of trading education, but I am sceptical about EA sales for a whole bunch of reasons.

I dont really have a problem with vendors selling unproven EA's, its a case of buyer beware. The fundemental problem is when the vendor is also a T2W advisor, and in the last couple of weeks we've had a case where an advisor was claiming returns of 20% per week, whilst this particular vendor claims returns of 100% per month.

Tim's gonna jump in to defend his employer, and he's going to argue that the advisor status does not lend any form of credability to the poster, and that T2W are not endorsing any product that their advisors may be selling. Now whilst that of course is technically correct, I would argue that in practice, the members status and credability is raised by their appointment as an advisor or guide, and particularly amongst inexperienced forum members. If this is the case (and I think the recent Wasp fiasco is evidence in favour of that), then there's a very clear conflict of interest.

Its always been the case that T2W would turn a blind eye to the misdemeanours of members who they deem to be of value, so the situation is nothing new, but you are right to point it out of course.
 
It is curious that:

1) They make 400 pips a month profit and place 20 trades a week so 400/80 = 5 pips profit on average per trade. This is marginal in my view unless they are scalping which from the chart they are not.

Paul


Its not scalping.If they make 20 trades of which 9 are profitable @ 30 points = 270 , if 11 are unprofitable @ 15 = 165 loss.Net effect is 105 profit/20= 5 points average profit
 
He is so professional, keeps using pips in place of cents.

15 pip stop and a nice +30 take profit sounds like a novice statement or somebody who does not trade oil for a living.

New E A available in members area.
 
tbh, If I could automate my forex trading I'd just sit there and manually trade oil only. Is this an 'out of the box' download system or advice? It looks, on first inspection, like a simple ema/ma x-over ..:confused:
 
Fair points, I have not looked closely at the EA or the risk reward profile and strike rate. What I was referring to is that if an approach is designed for 5 pips or cents of profit and is scalping then it is probably sustainable.


Paul
 
tbh, If I could automate my forex trading I'd just sit there and manually trade oil only. Is this an 'out of the box' download system or advice? It looks, on first inspection, like a simple ema/ma x-over ..:confused:

Why not automate oil as trading as well?

What price would you consider fair for buying a fully automated forex system with consistent returns of 40% a year with low draw downs of 20%?How much do you believe people should pay ?$150?$1,000,$10k?,$100k?$1m?
 
These always make me laugh, if anyone has a system good enough to be worth selling then they would be making enough money from it not to need to go down the hassle of the selling route, it is a bit of a paradox? and if it was that good why go to all the novices who could never pay much for it and would no doubt have loads of hazzle, just go straight to the big boys for that big pay day?
 
These always make me laugh, if anyone has a system good enough to be worth selling then they would be making enough money from it not to need to go down the hassle of the selling route, it is a bit of a paradox? and if it was that good why go to all the novices who could never pay much for it and would no doubt have loads of hazzle, just go straight to the big boys for that big pay day?

System sellers get caught out trying to scam the big boys.Most of them have blown their accounts several times over,they need a quick victim to part with $100.

A good automated system making 40 % a year consistently is priceless to somebody with $1bn , and who is making 3 % on treasuries.He could make $370m more every year,over ten years it is worth $3.7bn.The software is worth $3.7 bn.
 
Why not automate oil as trading as well?

What price would you consider fair for buying a fully automated forex system with consistent returns of 40% a year with low draw downs of 20%?How much do you believe people should pay ?$150?$1,000,$10k?,$100k?$1m?
:LOL:

No thanks old chum...The difficulty is that I want my (tried and tested) strat. automated to work across any and all forex pairs concurrently. Once developed it's mine... for me and the benefit of my offspring...oh, and my mates at Goldman Sachs...muhahahahahaha :devilish:
 
What price would you consider fair for buying a fully automated forex system with consistent returns of 40% a year with low draw downs of 20%?How much do you believe people should pay ?$150?$1,000,$10k?,$100k?$1m?

Thats quite a complex question. If the customer doesn't have too much money, 150 bucks may well represent a significant percentage of their avalable trading capital !

If they have no capital, it'll probably take 5 years to earn enough profit to pay for their initial investment and internet connection charges. If thats the case, $150 is probably a fair price

By the same argument, if you have 10 million bucks available, then a cost of 1 million seams quite reasonable.

If you look at it from the EA developers perspective, neither price is fair, the first guy is penalised for being poor, and the second guy gets it far too cheap. Thats why I dont sell EA's, but if I where to do so, I'd go down the same route as everyone else, selling crap to morons who are too dumb to work out how to apply for a refund from clickbank, at $150 a pop
 
Tim's gonna jump in to defend his employer, and he's going to argue that the advisor status does not lend any form of credability to the poster, and that T2W are not endorsing any product that their advisors may be selling. Now whilst that of course is technically correct, I would argue that in practice, the members status and credability is raised by their appointment as an advisor or guide, and particularly amongst inexperienced forum members. If this is the case (and I think the recent Wasp fiasco is evidence in favour of that), then there's a very clear conflict of interest.
Hi zupcon,
Happy New Year to you!
The issue of allowing vendors to become FGs was discussed at length when the FG role was being drafted. FGs that are vendors have been advised to be especially careful in what they post when commenting on an issue relating to their own products or services. Where possible, the member concerned is made a FG for a forum which has no direct link to their own products or services. £10kLoser is a case in point, as he's the FG for the Psychology forum. Needless to say, if there's any evidence to suggest that a FG is using his (or her) position to market their products or services to members, then they will have their forum permissions revoked and be asked to step down from the role. We knew we could rely upon members such as your good self to shout 'foul play' the minute this happens and, in consequence, we decided it wasn't a problem at all! The broader issue of members making assumptions about the credibility of FGs has cropped up on another thread recently. Coincidentally, I edited my OP in the The Forum Guide thread earlier today to clarify their status.
Cheers,
Tim.
 
:LOL:

No thanks old chum...The difficulty is that I want my (tried and tested) strat. automated to work across any and all forex pairs concurrently. Once developed it's mine... for me and the benefit of my offspring...oh, and my mates at Goldman Sachs...muhahahahahaha :devilish:

Thats why you will never get a good robot.Nothing will work on all pairs.
 
Yep, which means anyone selling to the masses is almost certainly a con artist, anyone selling to the big boys we will probably never hear from, seriously though, if anyone comes up with an automated system that can return 20-30% gauranteed per anuum that is time and trend safe seriously it is worth fecking loads! personally I do not believe one exists and that one ever will.
 
Total conflict of interest activing as a guide on this forum and as a vendor for obvious reasons, even with the best of intentions so open to hosts of issues and would not happen pretty much anywhere else?
 
Yep, which means anyone selling to the masses is almost certainly a con artist, anyone selling to the big boys we will probably never hear from, seriously though, if anyone comes up with an automated system that can return 20-30% gauranteed per anuum that is time and trend safe seriously it is worth fecking loads! personally I do not believe one exists and that one ever will.

How can you get that dough ,if you have it?It is difficult making contacts with the big boys.

O D T
 
We knew we could rely upon members such as your good self to shout 'foul play' the minute this happens and, in consequence, we decided it wasn't a problem at all!

Thank you, and a happy and prosperous new year to you too.

I agree entirely with most of your post, apart from the sentance I've included above. Whilst its true that there are members who may well shout "foul play", that does not necessarily mean that a problem does not exist.

There a couple of problems. The first is that there is reality, and there is perception. The reality is that forum guides are not endorsed by T2W, and that T2W makes efforts to eliminate conflicts of interest, and probably even goes so far as to make this quite clear to anyone who cares to read the sites terms and conditions, and the various other bumf thats published from time to time. However the perception is that the guides have an elevated status, so their opinions carry more weight. I would argue if you had 2 vendors, selling similar products, and vendor A was flagged as "BANNED", and vendor B was flagged as a "T2W Advisor", or "T2W Forum Guide", or "T2W Moderator" then the latter would be percieved as having greater credabiity than the former.

From the materials that you've provided, and the posts that you've made, its apparent to me at least that you've committed a significant amount of effort in studying the markets, and that you've approached the task from a logical perspective, and with realistic expectations. I appologise if I've misread the situation, but you dont strike me as the sort of guy who'd endorse claims of returns in excess of 100% per week, or even 100% per month. However, the site does have forum guides who are openly making such claims. In one case, not only can they make 100% a month, they can simultaneously sit in the sun relaxing

I lose track of how long I've been in this game, its been about 6-7 years full time and I'll quite happily admit that I cant achieve 100% per week, or a 100% per month (not without an unacceptably high risk of losing a similar amount). However at least two of the sites forum guides claim to be able to do so, and by using EA's.

I acknowledge that just because I cant make a risk free, tax free 100% a month whilst relaxing in the sun doesnt mean that it cant be done, but I'd suggest from experience its quite rare, although I did once meet someone who claimed to have made good money day trading during the dot com boom, and as he was sailing around in 60 million dollars worth of boat, I had no cause to doubt he'd made money doing something, and quite possibly trading.

So the first problem is that these advisors are perpetuating a perception that risk free 100% returns per month are commonplace. I'm unclear as to how this fits in with the sites objectives of providing objective guidance to new traders, I'd argue that its a quite misleading impression. If the advisor also claims to have a commercial product that produces these returns, well... lets just say its a bit iffy.

The second problem, is that although certain members may cry "foul play", by and large those concerns will go unheeded. I'll provide just two example. The first was Mr Spreadbetting, he quite cleverly used T2W members of staff and ledgendary members to endorse his product. It was clear to anyone with a modicum of experience that the guy was a fraud, or indeed to anyone with the ability to type a few words into Google that his content had been plagerised. Still that didnt stop him from using and abusing T2W to generate the best part of a third of a million in sales. The threads are still there if you care to look, and they illustrate the ineffectiveness of members shouting "foul play"

The second example, and I really cant resist bringing it up, is of course the Wasp fiasco. In the case of Mr Spreadbetting, a moderator at least had the decency to try and put an end to his games by locking the thread, and although it was akin to locking the stable door after the horse had bolted, he at least tried, and at least had the integrity to comment on Mr Spreadbettings multi user shinnanagins. In this case T2W moved heaven and earth to supress information when someone shouted "fould play"

Having said all this, I would suggest to you that there is a problem.
 
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