timsk Throws in the Towel (but clings on to the facecloth) . . .

JTraders’ ‘Tell the Truth … RU Even a Net Winner?’ thread is the latest in a series of threads posted by members experiencing problems with their trading. Well, here’s one more to add to the tally. Hopefully, it will be the last and then everyone can start making some money!

I left full time employment at the end of Oct’ 2007 to become a full time day trader of U.S. equities. I went ‘live’ with real money in April this year and, since then, I have done over 1,000 trades. I’ve had profitable days, profitable weeks and, even, two months where I made a gross profit and one (but only one) in which I made a small net profit. However, there’s no escaping the fact that the equity curve is in the twenty past four zone. Hard as it is, I have to face facts and accept the unpalatable truth that I’m flogging a dead horse. I can do okay in a competition trading virtual paper money and I can ‘talk the talk’, but the plain fact of the matter is that I can’t ‘walk the walk’ with real money.

Rather than suffer the ignominy of losing all my capital through a death by a thousand cuts, I’ve decided that enough is enough and to cease day trading as career from today. There’s sufficient capital left in my account to put towards re-training or starting a ‘conventional’ business. (Any ideas on that front gratefully received). My wonderful and long suffering wife has been the only bread winner since I left full time employment and it’s only fair to her – and important to our marriage as well as to my own self esteem – that I do something that generates some income. And soon!

I don’t intend to turn my back on trading completely as it fascinates me and that would be a waste of the thousands upon thousands of hours spent studying charts, reading books and posts here on T2W etc. So, I will keep my hand in and continue to dabble with an E.o.D. strategy. Although there’s little evidence to support this, a part of me still believes that out there somewhere is a trading style and profitable strategy with my name on it. I’ve just yet to find it. That said though, through necessity, I will not be spending anything like as much time here on T2W as I have been doing. Therefore, I resign from my role as a ‘T2W Advisor’ and I hope sincerely that my efforts haven’t done anyone any long-term lasting damage. Lastly, I would like to thank all those members who have freely given me their help and support over the years. (You know who you are.) My failure in this business is down to me and me alone and in no way reflects the quality or validity of the great advice that I’ve received from the many traders who’ve done their utmost to help me.

Season’s greetings and good trading to you all.
Tim.

Bloody hell Tim,

You were a legend in that competition.

Dilesh has been told he hasn't got enough savings to open an account with ETX Capital.

What's wrong with the world?

Regards,
Joey

Take care of yourself Tim.
Hope all works out well.

Shame to see you go buddy. Good luck in whatever you decide and I wish you well.

Tim,

A brave and honest post. I can identify with a lot you've said. I don't know if I would be profitable with the pressure of being a full time trader. At the moment I am - but if I wasn't it wouldn't matter that much as I have a good job to supply the income.

Definitely don't give up, it was a series of disasters that led me to my "eureka" moment when I almost accidentally stumbled on my trading strat that I trade today which suites me best, it's not perfect but I feel in control and don't worry about losses anymore. Had it not been for these earlier big losses that made me take a step back and take the blinkers off I probably would still be trading my way into the abyss.

timsk said:

Season’s greetings and good trading to you all.
Tim.

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Tim

Good luck with all your future ventures and thanks for the great contribution you have made to T2W and the help you have given to its members over the years.

Charlton

All the best Tim. A decision made is a good thing! Have a good Christmas with the family.

A good honest post Tim. Best of luck to you.

This is really very sad and is getting the absolutely wrong person on here, you deserve far better than that Tim !!!

I really, really do not understand it my friend !!!

Why is it working when it's play money at stake, but not when it is for real ?

That clearly says one thing, and one thing only: the problem is NOT your method, that is clearly a net winner ?!?

No matter where your demo trades are being done, if you trade with a direct access broker they will be replicable in real life in the exact same manner !!!

The only difference that then remains is psychology, but surely that can be handled ??

Have you thought of getting coaching in that regard ?

If you think of top athletes physically there is very little if any difference once you reach the peak, but what seperates the Schumachers or Hamiltons from the rest that are not consistent winners is nothing than psychology, and for that most top performers have coaches to motivate them and help them visualise their eventual success, one of the most incredibly successful methods in it's own right, along with learning to let go of the fears of the moment.

Your method does work, that doesn't need any additional help, all that does need help is your ability to do what you do when nothing is at stake in the same way when there is something at stake.

I am 100% convinced that that can be learned.

I just never think of money but only percentages, and I just believe in ultimate outcomes.

Have you thought of having a talk with some of those coaches out there like Brett Steenbarger, there is also some girl who is also in that business whose name I forget at the moment but I am sure someone else here can help or I'll remember.

Steve Cohen hired Ari Kiev for that exact same business at his hedge fund, SAC CApital, one of the largest and best out there, and apparently with great success.

So that clearly shows that you are not alone out there with this situation, but also that help is available.

Whatever you decide to do, all the very, very best my friend !!!

Edit:

Name just came back:

Trading Consultant - Ruth Barrons Roosevelt, J.D.

and

Brett Steenbarger Trading Psychology

the hedge fund coach:

Welcome to Ari Kiev.com: Mastering Trading Stress

Hi Tim,

You can spend half a lifetime trying my system, if you like.

Anything to keep you around, even though it will cost you money.

Take care

Split

Good luck with your new direction Tim. With 1000 trades under your belt you will have had the opportunity to discover some things.

What went wrong? Could you have done things "better?" Were you taking profit targets or trailing stops?

Yes virtual/paper trading and live cash in the moment trading are quite different.

Banishing those little voices in ones head that cause you to interfere with and f uck up your trading plan.

I feel for these poor little systems. It wants to do its best for us and then you/we come along with our size 12's and take the poor little buggar off autopilot - A bit like Paulie "The Magicians" corner men when he fought Ricky "The Hitman Hatton a couple of weeks ago! they threw in the towel for him in round 11, Paulie went ape shi t!

I wish to god i could shut up those little (negative) voices that pull the plug on my excellent plan.

"Our doubts are traitors that undo the good we often might win by fearing to attempt" Brucey Lee

Good luck Tim, shame, i think a lot of people go through the same sort of thing (i do at times) and theres always a lot of posts on here of people who took 3 years+ and suuddenly everything clicked.

Hopefully that'll come to you too.

Cheers

One of the best posts I have read on T2W. The decision must have been a hard one to make for you and your family, it's so difficult to let go of something that you have a sneeking suspicion might work eventually, but I for one think that you have made the right decision for the reasons you have given, and admire you for sharing it here.

Best of luck with whatever you decide on for the future.

Sad news Tim but at least you had the balls to give it a go full time. I've long believed that lesser mortals (ie me) can use trading as a good top-up income since success is not critical. But full-time trading is another thing and it would seem that the psychological playing field changes somewhat. Maybe that's why so few succeed.

Yours is an excellent post and full of learning points. Presumably you will take up part-time successful trading again, after you've secured the day job. Don't leave the forum - your community needs you!

Best wishes & good luck for the future.

Ironically, your ability to look at your performance objectively and know you're beaten - effectively cutting your losses short, to use a trading cliche, seems like a very positive attribute for a trader to have. Perhaps trying EOD trading while having another income stream will provide you with better results due to the reduced pressure - profitable demo results certainly suggest you have potential.

Best of luck with whatever direction you decide to go in.

Best of luck Tim.

I'm sure you will make a success of whatever you ultimately decide to do.

Regards,
M.

montmorencyt2w said:

Best of luck Tim.

I'm sure you will make a success of whatever you ultimately decide to do.

Regards,
M.

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How do you know

FXSCALPER2 said:

How do you know

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OK 1 day, abrasive the next. you're a jekyll n hyde character r'nt u

JTrader said:

OK 1 day, abrasive the next. you're a jekyll n hyde character r'nt u

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How does he know though, really?