Why you shouldn't demo trade

Wow, what the hell is this thread called again.....

Why you shouldn't demo trade....wtf. You can't be serious.

Yes I am. Deadly serious.

Do not demo trade, put your hard earned real cash on trades, and yes again, even if you are starting out and have no idea. You have to pay for your education. This is not a game - you are up against full time professional players who know how you will behave, this is because they will make you behave like this.

So, lets dissect this a little before I get pounced on by everyone on here. But, I am only starting the thread, I'll leave the discussions to anyone who wants to (probably most) disagree.

And this is why I make this statement:

Everyone seems to know more about the markets than they actually do, this is damaging, very damaging. So, when the new (or experienced) trader demo's on account, there is zero emotional attachment. Therefore, we place a trade, it doesn't work, who cares, place another one, still don't work, so what, place another, it wins, I'm amazing and have this nailed, I have the holy grail, I have a system blah blah blah.

Now: Play with your hard earned cash and all of a sudden we don't just place trades willy nilly (there's a term I haven't heard in a while). We wait patiently for the correct set up each and every time. Of course, if we do not then we lose our money and crawl back under the rock where we came from. Trading is not for you.

Your whole life has been structured to lead you to this moment in your life whereby you wish (for whatever reason), to become a trader. If you cannot trade, are you prepared to pick your whole life apart and change things you don't even know need changing to become a trader. It's not possible is what I'm getting at here. You have it or you don't. To many peoples disgust.

If people were honest on here you would find that the vast majority of people are not profitable, they will of course tell you different (even deceive themselves thinking that a few months/weeks profits makes them good) but these people never disclose any proof or if they do, they miss parts out, ie, the losing bits.

I don't wish to harp on about the psychological impact and these parts to trading as I believe they have been battered to death all over this forum, but, they are important, in fact THE most important part of trading. There is no system, it doesn't exist. YOU are the system. If you can act, become an actor, if you can paint, become a painter....and you know where I'm going with this.....

IF YOU CAN TRADE....BECOME A TRADER.

If not, then go home once the money has run out, otherwise you will forever haunt the internet looking for something that just doesn't exist. And that is YOU being a successful trader.

Lee

NOTE: This post will contradict some of my other posts.

I am testing out my latest robot. Do you really think I am going to trust it from the word go with...real money ?
Not on yer nelly mate.
I see your point but some just take longer than others to make the profitability gap.
So keep trading safely guys.

Demo trading is a fantastic way to try out new platforms, You need to be totally at ease with your platform before you go anywhere near a live account, And for that reason i disagree with your post Lee..

Pat494 said:

I am testing out my latest robot. Do you really think I am going to trust it from the word go with...real money ?
Not on yer nelly mate.
I see your point but some just take longer than others to make the profitability gap.
So keep trading safely guys.

Click to expand...

Pat,

I have the utmost respect for you as we both been here for years so I'm not prepared to raise swords with you here. But, I have to state the obvious mate.....

If your 'robot' is successful, sell it to the highest bidding hedge fund or bank.

It doesn't exist, it will never exist. The mere fact you are trying a latest robot is (although you may argue the point), is that your current one is broken !!!. Otherwise why would you try and make another. If it works, it works... simple. You make money. Although I'm ready to hear something along the lines of 'I am profitable and the current robot works fine but I just want to tighten it up or make it more profitable etc.

WE are the system. Everything else is just bollox and a major distraction or selling point for noobs.

Obviously there is admin work and research involved but that's not what I'm discussing here.

With love mate.

Lee

To be a successful trader requires a trading nirvana mindset , a trading nirvana mindset requires awareness of thyself and the enemy withing .To understand yourself ,one would have to become aware of themselves , by reading my 16 psychology threads and the best psychology threads listed in best threads list.

We are born wired to lose and we are taught wired to lose, most new traders are brainwashed there is only one way to make money i.e trade trends and these victims have been sold courses plus education on it.The gurus can't do it.

Most are taught market timing is easy , they are taught mainly by failed traders .Successful traders don't trend trade , they take small risks and trade rarely.We are not taught "how to handle failure in trading , failure of trends , failure of market timing , failure to manage risk ,failure to learn about the enemy within " , this unpreparedness leads most to fail.

I did start a thread about demo disadvantages here

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/edu...36-virtual-accounts-versus-real-accounts.html

Traders are not born , they are made , they are born wired to lose. So if all the gurus put your hand up and say " I attempted to market the big candle as Pin Bar to noobs , therefore they all lost their monies".

mike. said:

Demo trading is a fantastic way to try out new platforms, You need to be totally at ease with your platform before you go anywhere near a live account, And for that reason i disagree with your post Lee..

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To be fair Mike, that I agree with. Of course throw on some demo trades to get used to the platform but don't use it for pretending to actually trade. Games are just games and have no meaning. If there is money down, it becomes serious.

Think about how you play (if you do) a board game with friends or a games console, now imagine that every time you lost a life, you lost a grand, or, every time you landed on Mayfair (Monopoly), you had to pay the rent from your bank account.

Now think about how very different you would play these games.

foroom lluzers said:

To be a successful trader requires a trading nirvana mindset , a trading nirvana mindset requires awareness of thyself and the enemy withing .To understand yourself ,one would have to become aware of themselves , by reading my 16 psychology threads and the best psychology threads listed in best threads list.

We are born wired to lose and we are taught wired to lose, most new traders are brainwashed there is only one way to make money i.e trade trends and these victims have been sold courses plus education on it.The gurus can't do it.

Most are taught market timing is easy , they are taught mainly by failed traders .Successful traders don't trend trade , they take small risks and trade rarely.We are not taught "how to handle failure in trading , failure of trends , failure of market timing , failure to manage risk ,failure to learn about the enemy within " , this unpreparedness leads most to fail.

I did start a thread about demo disadvantages here

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/edu...36-virtual-accounts-versus-real-accounts.html

Traders are not born , they are made , they are born wired to lose. So if all the gurus put your hand up and say " I attempted to market the big candle as Pin Bar to noobs , therefore they all lost their monies".

Click to expand...

You make some very valid points here.

mike. said:

Demo trading is a fantastic way to try out new platforms, You need to be totally at ease with your platform before you go anywhere near a live account, And for that reason i disagree with your post Lee..

Click to expand...

Shows you are not a trader .A trader has to be able to subconsciously execute a trading plan , in a state of trading nirvana .This could take 6 to 12 months simulation practice in live market conditions , to be then able to apply it impulsively by the automatic mind commands .

Lee

Is this thread contradicting your post?Please explain.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/224676-anyone-need-any-help.html

foroom lluzers said:

Shows you are not a trader .A trader has to be able to subconsciously execute a trading plan , in a state of trading nirvana .This could take 6 to 12 months simulation practice in live market conditions , to be then able to apply it impulsively by the automatic mind commands .

Click to expand...

Sorry mate but I strongly disagree.

You can play games (board or console) as much as you want but when it comes to being live with cash, people act very differently, people feel very differently.

Nothing can prepare you for losing money like losing money.

Demo is ok, but I see far too many people who stay on it for far too long. Nothing like the real deal.

Pat494 said:

I am testing out my latest robot. Do you really think I am going to trust it from the word go with...real money ?
Not on yer nelly mate.
I see your point but some just take longer than others to make the profitability gap.
So keep trading safely guys.

Click to expand...

100% agree with you! no point of testing a new system or algo with real money, completely waste of precious resources, especially for new trader that doesn't have an edge...
Only when you develop an edge, back test it thoughtfully, then you can refine it with real money (small size), and only after that when you are sure everything is working as planned, put out the optimal bets... The opposite is pure gambling...

foroom lluzers said:

Lee

Is this thread contradicting your post?Please explain.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/224676-anyone-need-any-help.html

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@ Post 3 of mine. Yes it does contradict me 100%.

You will find (as I have pre-warned), many contradictions from me.

Paper trading/demo is for fun and entices players in to the markets. But its not and will never be the real thing. Money down or don't bother.

I know more successful demo traders than I do cash ones. Why is this ????You don't have to answer that as we already know the answer.

For noobs: Its nothing to do with prices being in your favour.

Quantt said:

100% agree with you! no point of testing a new system or algo with real money, completely waste of precious resources, especially for new trader that doesn't have an edge...
Only when you develop an edge, back test it thoughtfully, then you can refine it with real money (small size), and only after that when you are sure everything is working as planned, put out the optimal bets... The opposite is pure gambling...

Click to expand...

No, this is wrong (sorry bud).

There is no system or edge or algo. If there was you would sell it to the highest bidder.

Back testing is also a total waste of time as we curve fit until we think it works then forward test it live but still is bollox - it's nothing but pure chance. Its about the money on the line and you as the trader.

Lee Shepherd said:

No, this is wrong (sorry bud).

There is no system or edge or algo. If there was you would sell it to the highest bidder.

Back testing is also a total waste of time as we curve fit until we think it works then forward test it live but still is bollox - it's nothing but pure chance. Its about the money on the line and you as the trader.

Click to expand...

Yeh, we agree to disagree on this one... I would not sell my algo, even for 8 digit offer, because it generates me very nice income, which is compounding at very good rate and one day I can leave it to my son when he grows up... this is the perfect passive income business for me, totally location independent and it will work as long as people are trading the stock market...

Quantt said:

Yeh, we agree to disagree on this one... I would not sell my algo, even for 8 digit offer, because it generates me very nice income, which is compounding at very good rate and one day I can leave it to my son when he grows up... this is the perfect passive income business for me, totally location independent and it will work as long as people are trading the stock market...

Click to expand...

Again, sorry mate but to me your post makes very little sense at all.

Only a few people will understand what I mean.

Lee Shepherd said:

Sorry mate but I strongly disagree.

You can play games (board or console) as much as you want but when it comes to being live with cash, people act very differently, people feel very differently.

Nothing can prepare you for losing money like losing money.

Click to expand...

That depends on how seriously you take demo losses and how you react to them, if your mind is trained to react to demo as real , any loss will have same impact.

In reality stress responses testosterone and emotions do kick out on live account.

Lee Shepherd said:

Again, sorry mate but to me your post makes very little sense at all.

Only a few people will understand what I mean.

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Same here, I am also sorry you cannot understand the beauty of the systematic algorithmic trading,,,

Quantt said:

Same here, I am also sorry you cannot understand the beauty of the systematic algorithmic trading,,,

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Just cause you use fancy Nick to impress us , we would like to see some real evidence .

foroom lluzers said:

That depends on how seriously you take demo losses and how you react to them, if your mind is trained to react to demo as real , any loss will have same impact.

In reality stress responses testosterone and emotions do kick out on live account.

Click to expand...

Again (with respect) but I disagree.

#notmakingmanyfriendstoday.

Demo does not take money out of your bank account, nor does it have to explain to the wife/husband where the money has gone.

Demo is not real, whether you pretend or feel that it is, it is not and never will be.

You can prepare your mind to be kicked in the balls but until it happens, it is pure speculation and when it does happen, it makes you feel sick.