IG Index/Binary Bet Rejections

donaldduke · Mar 7, 2008

Lately im getting a lot of 'sorry the price is no longer valid please try again' rejections in ordinary (non fast) markets. Then IG move the binary price against me even if the underlying market has not moved. So if i do try again the binary price i will get is much worse.

This has nothing to do with my internet connection or the prices changing quickly. It is IG backing away from their quoted dealing price simply because i want to make a big bet on it.

Has anyone else noticed an increase in rejections/slow fills?

stevespray · Mar 7, 2008

I had a dispute with them several years ago over 'backing away'. I friend of mine had the same thing start to happen to him on Binary Bets. Surprised that its happening on the slower markets. Sounds to me like they have taken things beyond the simple 'delayed execution' tactic. Maybe they picked you up on some kind of statistic study of winning clients since its winners which increase their bet size. Of coure they might want to limit risk at different levels - your trade might impeed that model.
Why not ring them and ask? Have you tried using the phone? In slow markets it's more less impossible for them to pick you off via the phone since they might be in breach of their T&C.

Steve.

donaldduke · Mar 10, 2008

stevespray said:
I had a dispute with them several years ago over 'backing away'. I friend of mine had the same thing start to happen to him on Binary Bets. Surprised that its happening on the slower markets. Sounds to me like they have taken things beyond the simple 'delayed execution' tactic. Maybe they picked you up on some kind of statistic study of winning clients since its winners which increase their bet size. Of coure they might want to limit risk at different levels - your trade might impeed that model.
Why not ring them and ask? Have you tried using the phone? In slow markets it's more less impossible for them to pick you off via the phone since they might be in breach of their T&C.

Steve.

IG do not allow phone bets for Binaries.

Bet rejections really p1ss me off

. But in one respect i understand where IG are coming from. If they let all the consistent winners run loose making large bets, then there is good chance that Binaries would not be viable for IG. And we would all lose out as this instrument would no longer be offered. IG are limiting me to a fraction of what i could make, but i suppose that is better than nothing all. Do we really want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

. Its not like anyone else is offering anything comparable.

But this leaves the Moral/Scam aspect to Binary Betting. IG will readily take a large bet from a punter that does not have a history of net profitable betting

.

Phil Mibbutz · Mar 10, 2008

How about deliberately making a series of small losses with minimal stakes, then hitting them with a big bet once they think you're clueless? Then withdraw your winnings and close the account...

donaldduke · Mar 10, 2008

Phil Mibbutz said:
How about deliberately making a series of small losses with minimal stakes, then hitting them with a big bet once they think you're clueless? Then withdraw your winnings and close the account...

They arent that bad they wont play these games unless you are very profitable. They will let a new account make atleast 10K in profits before they mark the account.

Closing down and reopening your account doesnt work as most SBs only suspend accounts that clients have requested to close. If in future you want a new account and and they can identify you based on you name and address they will unsuspend your old account which will still be marked as being one to watch.

Baldwreck · Mar 10, 2008

In many ways I find it surprising that IGG do this as it would normally pay them to have clients who won a lot as that would act as the best possible advert to attract more punters - indeed without some punters being successful their business will surely wither.

Is there any hard evidence to corroborate the "dirty tricks" you suggest and have you confronted the company with that evidence?

donaldduke · Mar 10, 2008

Baldwreck said:
In many ways I find it surprising that IGG do this as it would normally pay them to have clients who won a lot as that would act as the best possible advert to attract more punters - indeed without some punters being successful their business will surely wither.

Is there any hard evidence to corroborate the "dirty tricks" you suggest and have you confronted the company with that evidence?

Yes i once emailed their help desk asking why my orders were taking longer than normal to execute.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email.
The orders that were placed on your account today were manually checked by the desk,
and as such there was a delay.

If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

..
IGIndex

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically what is there to check?, not my order. What they check is their own price, and if they think its incorrect, mainly because i tried to hit it, then they will move the price.

I dont have any extra information compared to IG. Basically if like a price then i take it, and i try to get out if i am wrong. The prices that IG quote are very accurate, my edge is mostly getting out when im wrong, my edge is not exploiting a weakness in their pricing.

Baldwreck · Mar 11, 2008

Thanks for that -well I still find this a bit bizarre - as I beieve it remains in IGs interest to have you making a fortune -

stevespray · Mar 11, 2008

Baldwreck said:
Thanks for that -well I still find this a bit bizarre - as I beieve it remains in IGs interest to have you making a fortune -

You'll need to explain that one? Binaries cannot be hedged (easily). Surely if you win then they lose? The 'manual execution trick' is just a way of adding to your trading costs. It's like a stealth tax and it is basicly a well worked con trick since they clearly advertise "Genuine one click dealing where the price you see is the price you get".

Steve.

Baldwreck · Mar 12, 2008

stevespray said:
You'll need to explain that one? Binaries cannot be hedged (easily). Surely if you win then they lose? The 'manual execution trick' is just a way of adding to your trading costs. It's like a stealth tax and it is basicly a well worked con trick since they clearly advertise "Genuine one click dealing where the price you see is the price you get".

Steve.

Steve - simply that unless the average "punter" believes he can make his fortune he just won't have a go - surely the same mentality of the lottery - its only the transparency that anyone can win big that ensures that week in week out people waste their money. Just my euro worth.

donaldduke · Mar 12, 2008

Baldwreck said:
Steve - simply that unless the average "punter" believes he can make his fortune he just won't have a go - surely the same mentality of the lottery - its only the transparency that anyone can win big that ensures that week in week out people waste their money. Just my euro worth.

Baldwreck your point is valid. But I think they have a figure in their heads, its probably something in the order of 10 to 50K. They are happy for a minority of punters to make that kind of money with Binaries before they resort to these 'dirty tricks'. But after that they would really like you to go away, or at least trade a hedgeable instrument instead.

There is also a bit of dilema for IG, in that nearly all punters who do make a small fortune (by luck) will end up giving it all back plus more. So they have to be careful how they handle this. They dont want to stop a lucky punter from betting as this would be mean they wont be able to get their money back. However they do want to stop skilled punters from winning more..

stevespray · Mar 12, 2008

donaldduke said:
Baldwreck your point is valid. But I think they have a figure in their heads, its probably something in the order of 10 to 50K. They are happy for a minority of punters to make that kind of money with Binaries before they resort to these 'dirty tricks'. But after that they would really like you to go away, or at least trade a hedgeable instrument instead.

There is also a bit of dilema for IG, in that nearly all punters who do make a small fortune (by luck) will end up giving it all back plus more. So they have to be careful how they handle this. They dont want to stop a lucky punter from betting as this would be mean they wont be able to get their money back. However they do want to stop skilled punters from winning more..

Spot on DD

In my experience a few of the firms allow 'minor' winning in these types of instruments.
If you trade big in none Binary Bets on things like FTSE / Dow / Dax etc then they dont mind so much because they are very liquid and can hedge very effectively which essentially locks them a profit because their spread is several times what the market is - in this situation a large punter is just taking advange of a 'tax efficient brokerage' and the firm is providing that service.
Binary Bets are different. If you trade successfully and get bigger size (over a period of time) a point is reached where, statistically they see that you have an 'edge' as such which their pricing model cannot over come. If they start to see regular withdrawals then this only underlines their situation. It's a kin to a dripping tap - you'd be surprised how much water is lost.

Steve.

markt99 · Sep 21, 2009

donaldduke said:
Baldwreck your point is valid. But I think they have a figure in their heads, its probably something in the order of 10 to 50K. They are happy for a minority of punters to make that kind of money with Binaries before they resort to these 'dirty tricks'. But after that they would really like you to go away, or at least trade a hedgeable instrument instead.

There is also a bit of dilema for IG, in that nearly all punters who do make a small fortune (by luck) will end up giving it all back plus more. So they have to be careful how they handle this. They dont want to stop a lucky punter from betting as this would be mean they wont be able to get their money back. However they do want to stop skilled punters from winning more..

DonaldDuke - just looking at these threads and what you were saying. Are you saying here they will happily let you make 10-50k a year on Binaries without hassling you?

donaldduke · Sep 21, 2009

markt99 said:
DonaldDuke - just looking at these threads and what you were saying. Are you saying here they will happily let you make 10-50k a year on Binaries without hassling you?

Not anymore. Year on year revenue growth seems to be flat for IG with binaries, so they are really squeezing everyone these days..

markt99 · Sep 21, 2009

donaldduke said:
Not anymore. Year on year revenue growth seems to be flat for IG with binaries, so they are really squeezing everyone these days..

What do you think is the most you can make out of them a year on Binaries then? Is it the total or the pounds/point that is the problem?

donaldduke · Sep 21, 2009

markt99 said:
What do you think is the most you can make out of them a year on Binaries then? Is it the total or the pounds/point that is the problem?

Somewhere around 10K in profits. Although these days the spreads are so wide and the premiums so high its hard to make a profit. Its like betting on a coin toss these days.

markt99 · Sep 22, 2009

donaldduke said:
Somewhere around 10K in profits. Although these days the spreads are so wide and the premiums so high its hard to make a profit. Its like betting on a coin toss these days.

Thanks DD. Does anyone know of any other companies offering 5 min binaries other than IG or Extrabet ?

Sharepunter · Sep 23, 2009

markt99 - I respect what DD has posted but his opinion is just that . . . his opinion.
You will only know for sure if they are profitable for you and whether IG cap your winnings by playing the IG binaries yourself.
Of course, it's not easy to win consistently and profitably . . . infact it's damn hard . . . but it can be done.
A couple of reasons why, in my opinion, the 5 minute binaries are a good play:
1. there are so many of them; therefore one can quickly gain experience.
2. often the market is rangebound for most of the day after it has made its opening move thus making it difficult to make much intraday profit by a spread bet. The 5 minute binaries have the effect of amplifying small points moves and so most 5 minute periods offer the chance to make a profit.
Naturally, I wouldn't be so keen on them unless I was making consistent profits myself!!!
They suit me but won't suit everyone . . . so as I said you will only find out if they're for you by having a go.

Riggs2k · Sep 23, 2009

Hey guys,
Which IGMARKETS do you trade? The US igmarkets does not have 5min does the UK one do?

thanks!

markt99 · Sep 24, 2009

Sharepunter said:
markt99 - I respect what DD has posted but his opinion is just that . . . his opinion.
You will only know for sure if they are profitable for you and whether IG cap your winnings by playing the IG binaries yourself.
Of course, it's not easy to win consistently and profitably . . . infact it's damn hard . . . but it can be done.
A couple of reasons why, in my opinion, the 5 minute binaries are a good play:
1. there are so many of them; therefore one can quickly gain experience.
2. often the market is rangebound for most of the day after it has made its opening move thus making it difficult to make much intraday profit by a spread bet. The 5 minute binaries have the effect of amplifying small points moves and so most 5 minute periods offer the chance to make a profit.
Naturally, I wouldn't be so keen on them unless I was making consistent profits myself!!!
They suit me but won't suit everyone . . . so as I said you will only find out if they're for you by having a go.

Thanks Sharepunter. It was 5 min binaries I am looking at simply because there are so many trading oportunities a day

Have you tried withdrawing your profits yet?

IG Index/Binary Bet Rejections

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Active member

Experienced member

Active member

Experienced member

Active member

Experienced member

Experienced member

Junior member

Experienced member

Junior member

Experienced member

Junior member

Junior member

Newbie

Junior member

Similar threads