Knowledge to action, Secker against the grain

This is probably going to against what alot of posts on here but... i am thinking about attending a Knowledge to action course. This is a fabulous forum and would appreciate and value you your comments.


My thoughts

I acknowledge that Secker has been pulled up by the FSA and the advertising standard agency for false claims, but hey it's 2010 and no one takes advertising too seriously.

I acknowledge that using words like 'millionaire' and 'trading secrets' in his adverts make the company seen like childish get rich quick seem.

I acknowledge that he runs free Seminars (one of which i attended last week). some of his minions may lack the clarity and accuracy to give the right information. I presume they are commission based and may use unfair tactics to get the sales.

I understand that some people may criticize his techniques and as I have also read on here some people are loosing money in the process. But with any business or service there are going to be customers who have bad experiences.

On the flip side.

(Through a work share purchase scheme I have doubled an £8000 investment on the U.S stock market over the last 8 months with no effort. Many of you will comment that over the last 18 months with the markets as they are any idiot could have managed this, maybe. But none the less I’m interested to know more.)

So

Even though I could have picks holes in what I heard at the free seminar I was still impressed by some of the techniques and risk management process that were explained.

I haven’t the time or the interest to spend hours and hours reading up on all of the processes and techniques, granted I need to understand these and use them with every transaction. Even though I make £50k at my day job I am dyslexic and would prefer should one to stand infront of me and explain more about spread betting.

Conclusion

I am still very undecided about knowledge to action, I am not expecting the world, i don’t expect to make millions or even not to loose abit, but for £3000 I expect to learn a lot. With this and more reading I think it could be value for money.

Please feel free to comment, pass judgement or call me an idiot but I am interested to know your thoughts.

I think you should spend the money and find out for yourself if it is worth it. Clearly you are blinded by the possibilities and have totally disregarded the downsides ( greed has overcome fear). I can see that you are determined to do it regardless of what anyone says, you've even started a new thread asking the same questions. You'll know in six months whether or not it was worth it.

thanks for your comments, I apologize for not replying to your thread directly but i was looking for a more quantifiable reason not to other than the cost?

I doubt any of the information he gives is new. If you need to learn the information yesterday and value this more than £3k then go for it. I doubt he will give you a guaranteed way of earning money from the stock market.

"Many of you will comment that over the last 18 months with the markets as they are any idiot could have managed this, maybe."

You think otherwise? Unless you're Soros or Buffett, the odds are against you for being clever with that investment. If you are convinced you're right, then you might as well pay Secker the £3k because you will lose it now or later.

Anyway, if you want to learn FOC, see the links in my sig. Either way, your opinion matters not to me. I'm growing tired of newbies taking and not giving. (Not necessarily pointing a finger at you but just a justification for my blunt reply.)

pboyles said:

I think you should spend the money and find out for yourself if it is worth it. Clearly you are blinded by the possibilities and have totally disregarded the downsides ( greed has overcome fear). I can see that you are determined to do it regardless of what anyone says, you've even started a new thread asking the same questions. You'll know in six months whether or not it was worth it.

Click to expand...

Wot he said...

With the exception of the last sentence. I'll tell you now it's not worth it based on the contents of your first post.

Seems you have made you mind up though.

robbo42 said:

Conclusion

I am still very undecided about knowledge to action, I am not expecting the world, i don’t expect to make millions or even not to loose abit, but for £3000 I expect to learn a lot. With this and more reading I think it could be value for money.

Please feel free to comment, pass judgement or call me an idiot but I am interested to know your thoughts.

Click to expand...

I don't automatically think eveyrone selling a training course is a) unable to exercise the skill they are trying to educate people towards, nor b) whether they can or can't exercise the skill, a con artist.

So, if you and others here are determined to undergo formal training to become skilled traders, you should consider some value for money questions. Training courses in the UK leading to a nationally recognised qualification, such as GCEs, Diplomas or Certificates, can be defined in terms of their guided learning hours. A GLH is an hour of trainer-supervised learning or trainer-directed study time. Each qualification has a range of GLH, to allow for a range of responses from the training organisation towards the syllabus. So, a typical GCSE would have 90-140 GLH.

Most trading courses do not lead to a nationally accredited qualification, and they don't have to. And of course, one trainer might spend 3 hours teaching what another covers adequately in 1. However, the GLH can be a sobering gauge to how much you're likely to be learning. If you sign up for a training course that comprises 3 full classroom days, then a full week of directed study alone, producing tasked research, assignments etc., then a further 2 days of workshops, you should have covered about 80 GLH.

This is not enough for the most accessible GCSE. I'm not saying trading courses or these particular courses are poor or are poor value, but before you sign a cheque, ask yourself whether you could expect to excel at a demanding profession with half a GCSE?

Hi robbo42,
Welcome to T2W!
I can't comment on Greg Secker or Traders University as I've neither met him or taken his course. However, I can offer some general comments about vendors and their relationship with T2W members . . .

Broadly speaking, there are two schools of thought among T2W members when it comes to trading vendors:
1. They're all snake oil salesmen and should be avoided like the plague. The basic argument can be summarized thus: those that can't trade, teach. And if they really can trade, why waste time teaching?
2. There are a few good honorable people out there who have something really worthwhile to offer. However, they're tough to find and, even when you do find the right company or person, there are no guarantees that what they teach will be applicable to your personality and style of trading.

I'm in camp No.2. Over the years, I've forked out a lot of money for tuition of one sort or another and, to be fair to the critics, most of it was money down the drain. However, about 10% of the time I get it right and find something - or someone - that I really value and helps me enormously. I mention this because I'm not one of those who's opposed to the idea of paying for tuition so, unlike some other members, I have no fundamental objection to the Knowledge To Action course. The real problem is that most people - especially newbies - have totally false expectations about trading tuition. Their mindset is one of 'I've paid to learn to be successful, ergo, if I'm not, it's the fault of the course/tutor and not me'. I imagine that much of what Mr Secker teaches is probably perfectly okay and covers a lot of the basics quite adequately. Will this make you a successful trader? Sorry, no it won't. No way Jose! In attending his course - or any other one for that matter - you may save yourself a few hours trawling through forums like this one. You'll reach first base of having a grounding in the subject faster than you otherwise might. But - and this is a very big BUT - you still won't know how to trade. You're still going to have to spend a lot of time really getting to grips with the markets and discovering the important stuff on your own. And that's going to take a lot of time and commitment.

I've been a member of T2W for quite a few years and, in all my time here, I have NEVER heard of a single person who has attended any course anywhere and then started trading a month or two later and made money consistently from the 'get go', simply by applying the ideas and techniques they've been taught. If all anyone had to do was cough up £3k and then lead a dream life - these boards would be awash with people bragging about their successes. Hell, I'd be one of 'em! I'm not saying they don't exist - there's probably one or two out there somewhere, but I've never come across one. This is not a criticism of Mr. Secker or his course - far from it. This applies to all courses. I merely wish to emphasize that there is no simple quick fit 'Holy Grail' solution. Unfortunately, the markets simply don't work that way.

So, the bottom line is this: if you don't have the time or the interest to commit to trading, save yourself the £3k and invest it in something else - trading is not for you. The course might shave off two to six months of learning the hard way by foraging around on the net or reading threads on T2W. And after you've taken the course and paid your money, reality will quickly hit home. When it's just you and the markets, on your own in front of your computer, and you and you alone have to make the decision whether to click buy or sell. That's when the real learning begins and your tutor is the best one there is: experience. If you want to fast forward six months (max') to get to that starting point and think that £3k is a fair price - go for it and take the course.

Whatever you do - I wish you well. In the meantime, read the Essentials Of First Steps Sticky. That should put you at least a month ahead of where you are right now - and it's completely free!
Tim.

Quote from the Knowledge to Action website describing their 2 day course...

' Created uniquely by the Founder of Knowledge to Action, Greg Secker - Ultimate Forex Profits shows you exactly how to generate serious money from trading the Forex markets and is for people who consider themselves real players. This course cuts straight to the heart of the matter and shows traders in step-by-step detail - how to identify, execute and automate, very high profit, yet low risk trades.'

I can see how people end up with unreasonable expectations but does anyone actually think the best trader in the world could teach to to trade successfully in 2 days?

Go on knock yerself out, then come back and give us the details...The second bit, reporting on what you actually get for your dosh, is the bit of mystery. Can't recall anyone coming on here telling us they thought it was good value and then forging a trading career using KTA as a springboard...

I'd have to echo the previous comments. I did take a Greg Secker course. It will teach you the basics of technical analysis and a couple of strategies that might make a bit, or won't lose much money. The content is OK but certainly only worth 1/10th of what is being charged.

Obviously all this just gives you some knowledge, which is only a small part of trading successfully. You'd be better off getting this knowledge cheaply (its a shame you're dyslexic as I could recommend a handful of books), doing some self analysis and practicing, practicing. Trading is a funny old business - someone said its a hard way to make an easy buck!

PM me if you want one or two suggestions of where to start. There are some useful threads on here as well, but steer away from ones talking about strategies.

Incidentally, if you're not willing to put in two or so years of hard work, discipline and learning (in other words to be fairly obsessed about trading!) don't bother starting, just put your money on term deposit and count yourself lucky.

Thanks all for your comments, contary to believe I value your opionions and agree with the majority of what you say. I really appreciate those of you that looked at the pro and the cons. I not sure whether I'll sign up or not it is a huge amount of money. I'll be back in a month to let you know whether I've signed up or not.

Knowledge for actions video's on YouTube mention some interesting points, but you guys have certainly shown me the company in a different light and shown other alternatives at much better value.

Thanks for your time

Someone posted some of Greg Seckers training material on here a while ago. They shouldn't have done it really but it was reasonable stuff. I have no doubt that you would learn something useful if you went. Is it worth the money? Probably not. You can learn the same from a couple of good books, however the classroom experience often appeals as a good learning medium.

robbo42 said:

This is probably going to against what alot of posts on here but... i am thinking about attending a Knowledge to action course. This is a fabulous forum and would appreciate and value you your comments.


My thoughts

I acknowledge that Secker has been pulled up by the FSA and the advertising standard agency for false claims, but hey it's 2010 and no one takes advertising too seriously.

I acknowledge that using words like 'millionaire' and 'trading secrets' in his adverts make the company seen like childish get rich quick seem.

I acknowledge that he runs free Seminars (one of which i attended last week). some of his minions may lack the clarity and accuracy to give the right information. I presume they are commission based and may use unfair tactics to get the sales.

I understand that some people may criticize his techniques and as I have also read on here some people are loosing money in the process. But with any business or service there are going to be customers who have bad experiences.

On the flip side.

(Through a work share purchase scheme I have doubled an £8000 investment on the U.S stock market over the last 8 months with no effort. Many of you will comment that over the last 18 months with the markets as they are any idiot could have managed this, maybe. But none the less I’m interested to know more.)

So

Even though I could have picks holes in what I heard at the free seminar I was still impressed by some of the techniques and risk management process that were explained.

I haven’t the time or the interest to spend hours and hours reading up on all of the processes and techniques, granted I need to understand these and use them with every transaction. Even though I make £50k at my day job I am dyslexic and would prefer should one to stand infront of me and explain more about spread betting.

Conclusion

I am still very undecided about knowledge to action, I am not expecting the world, i don’t expect to make millions or even not to loose abit, but for £3000 I expect to learn a lot. With this and more reading I think it could be value for money.

Please feel free to comment, pass judgement or call me an idiot but I am interested to know your thoughts.

Click to expand...

keep your money i know people that can train you for a price of a few books you just put the work in for yourself. I know a few sites that would help you do the same thing for free

robbo42 said:

I am still very undecided about knowledge to action, I am not expecting the world, i don’t expect to make millions or even not to loose abit, but for £3000 I expect to learn a lot. With this and more reading I think it could be value for money.

Please feel free to comment, pass judgement or call me an idiot but I am interested to know your thoughts.

Click to expand...

Hi Robbo42.

It would be a good thing if you can check if their brochure resembles Shadowninja's trading system http://www.trade2win.com/boards/jokes-humour/29409-115-profitable-system.html

If it does, may be a bad decision.

bedsit said:

Hi Robbo42.

It would be a good thing if you can check if their brochure resembles Shadowninja's trading system http://www.trade2win.com/boards/jokes-humour/29409-115-profitable-system.html

If it does, may be a bad decision.

Click to expand...

Also it's worth noting that a thread commenting about that course (started only few days ago) has been removed for legal reasons.
I commented there about my experience and meeting somebody who already took that course.
I don't want to repeat what I posted there, but you can conclude yourself if it was an approval of the course.

PS Assuming that your interest in the members opinion is bona fide.:cheesy:

bedsit said:

Also it's worth noting that a thread commenting about that course (started only few days ago) has been removed for legal reasons.
I commented there about my experience and meeting somebody who already took that course.
I don't want to repeat what I posted there, but you can conclude yourself if it was an approval of the course.

PS Assuming that your interest in the members opinion is bona fide.:cheesy:

Click to expand...

Correction – the thread removed for legal reasons was Greg Secker – Knoledge To Action – Trader's University (last post on Nov 26,2006)

The thread where I posted is still there and it's called Ultimate FX Profits. Greg Secker with the first post on the 31st of May 2010 – ONLY 6 DAYS BEFORE THIS THREAD!

Hello all,

I attended the Traders University course a few months ago now and I still haven't quite made up my mind whether or not it was worth it!

The initial (hotel) seminar was laughable with the constant barage of textbook sales and NLP techniques. The classic lines were something like "I got into it because I wanted to send my kids to private school, which I now have; buy myself a Porsche, which I now have; and quit my job to go travelling; and hopefully you can see my great tan!!!" .... terrible stuff.

HOWEVER, I have been seriously interested in trading for a couple of years and, having read a plethora of books, came to a point where I needed to actually progress and develop some trading skills. So I just thought screw it and let's go for it. I'm only otherwise going to spend this £2.5k on something useless anyway, might as well be proactive with it!

So anyway, the course itself... as someone mentioned earlier, expecting to learn the markets, some strategies and go away making consistent profits in a 2 day course is entirely irrational, and if you do go ahead with it, it's vital you understand this point beforehand. At my particular course, we had a senior trading manager teach us as opposed to Greg (bit of a shame, but the other dude was great). As you'd expect, it's extremely basic stuff for the first 30% of the course to cater for all the n00bs in there without a clue (and trust me, most of the room was filled with aforementioned n00bs asking the most mundane questions you can imagine...). The other 70% comprises some good foundational knowledge including patterns and potential strategies. There's lots on risk management and ways of enhancing wealth for long term money management techniques (basically just investing a portion of your trading profits... fairly obvious stuff).

The course materials are enclosed in one huge-ass ring binded booklet which we don't even get time to complete (probably because of all the stupid questions), but having looked through it all again after the course, it is actually a fantastic source of information to get you started with swing trading. If you think you know a decent amount about the markets (if there is such a thing as 'a decent amount') then I'd probably shy away from this course because you could spend that £3k far more wisely - e.g. put £1k straight into trading and learn from losing it all (worst case scenario). On the other hand, if you're still fresh to the trading industry and feel some face to face tuition will benefit you then I think it's a fantastic opportunity.

You also get 3 thirty minute coaching sessions with (I guess) in-house prop traders, which can be a great way to develop some skills and learn one-to-one. Plus the ample opportunities to network with all the other candidates that attend can be invaluable, providing you have some decent attendees with you!

As for me, I have increased my initial investment but only just. It seems I left the course at a terrible time as the FTSE is terribly choppy these days, and as you can imagine the K2A strategies are far more geared towards a lovely trending market!

Hope that wasn't too long a post, but long enough to aid your decision.

Poor people who pay £3,000 is all I say......

sk1105 said:

As for me, I have increased my initial investment but only just. It seems I left the course at a terrible time as the FTSE is terribly choppy these days, and as you can imagine the K2A strategies are far more geared towards a lovely trending market!.

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So if you dont make money it will be the fault of the markets?

Its tough really isn't it, finishing the £2,500 weekend course and coming out to find difficult market conditions like these ones we're experiencing in [$currentmonth]. I well remember those charts teaching the Power Play (tm) Strategy, they seem astonishingly rare in the real world . . . guess its down to research, hard work and tenacity like everything else!