Which Elder book should I buy?

[Abstract]

I'm looking to buy ONE of Elder's highly acclaimed trading books. Hence, I have to make a choice between "Trading for Living" OR "Come into my trading room". Between these choices, which of these trading books would you guys recommended?

I've been paper trading equities, options and forex for about a year without a decent system, and both books have been recommended on numerous occasions. However, a trader in a BB investment bank recommended come into my trading room, giving me a slight bias. At the same time, the technical aspect of Trading for a living seems far more interesting than Come into my Trading Room's psychology and money management emphasis.Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe that strong money management is essential, yet I am looking to first hone my technical skills before diving into money management.

Most importantly, I have downloaded an ebook pdf version of Elder's Come into my trading room.

Any insight would be highly appreciated.

 

[HowardCohodas]

I own them both. I would start with "Trading for a Living." Although "Come Into My Trading Room" does repeat the relevant material, I think the first gives you a better foundation.

That said, were I in your position, I would get both from the Library and then buy the one that seems to fit the best with your current knowledge level.

 

[Abstract]

Thanks for the reply, Howard.

I initially intended to make a visit to a public library, however it is quite unlikely that I shall attain a copy before the winter holiday comes to a closure since all copies of TFAL and CIMTR have been way over-booked.

Trading for a Living it is. Hopefully, I can get some substantial reading done through the holiday season.

 

[DionysusToast]

Personally, I'd recommend you read neither.

If you would like to know which, then "Trading for a living" must be the one to avoid at all costs. The book is brimming with total, unproven, nonsense that will not help one iota with trading.

If you want a book that will help - I suggest Triana's "Lecturing Birds on Flying" at it will be somethe thing that helps you through the mire of mumbo-jumbo you face in your quest to get educated in trading via books from Wiley, Mcgraw Hill et al

 

[HowardCohodas]

Personally, I'd recommend you read neither.

Oh my!!!

Care to be specific?

 

[Abstract]

I used to wonder why guys like Elder, Covel and Tharp could even think of investing their time and effort into formulating their "trading education" schematics when it seems that the have no track record whatsoever to back their "systems".

Well, to date I have read four books that have changed my perspective on trading:
1- High Probability Trading by Marcel Link
2- Market Wizards by Schwager
3- Inside the house of money by Drobny
4- Trade your way to financial freedom by Tharp

Frankly, although I would prefer that the author had built a legitimate track record, I have learn't to accept the fact that their wisdom can be capitalized upon regardless if they ever even paper traded.

@DionysusToast: Which books would you recommended for an ambitious dorm-room trader? I have the following books in my Amazon check-out:

1-Trading for a Living by Elder
2- Trader Vic by Victor
3- New Market Wizards by Schwager
4- Secrets of Economic Indicators by Bernard

 

[DionysusToast]

Oh my!!!

Care to be specific?

Sure - everything from chapter 3 onwards.

It's mostly just an old hat re-hash of what indicators are - something you could get from Investopedia. MA's, MACD, Stochastics, RSI, etc.

It goes into "New Indicators" on page and then onto 3 trading systems that won't make you money from chapter 9 onwards.

I guess if you think indicators will make you money, then go for it. Other than that, it's old, stale and irrelevant.

I'd say that if you wanted a TA book, then something like Carters "Mastering The Trade" would be better. For sure - none of those systems will work out of the box but it goes beyond the sort of simplistic, basic views on TA that Elder espouses.

 

[DionysusToast]

I used to wonder why guys like Elder, Covel and Tharp could even think of investing their time and effort into formulating their "trading education" schematics when it seems that the have no track record whatsoever to back their "systems".

Well, to date I have read four books that have changed my perspective on trading:
1- High Probability Trading by Marcel Link
2- Market Wizards by Schwager
3- Inside the house of money by Drobny
4- Trade your way to financial freedom by Tharp

Frankly, although I would prefer that the author had built a legitimate track record, I have learn't to accept the fact that their wisdom can be capitalized upon regardless if they ever even paper traded.

@DionysusToast: Which books would you recommended for an ambitious dorm-room trader? I have the following books in my Amazon check-out:

1-Trading for a Living by Elder
2- Trader Vic by Victor
3- New Market Wizards by Schwager
4- Secrets of Economic Indicators by Bernard

I would first buy the book by Triana, mentioned above and leave out all the rest.

Before you dive in - are you ready to spend hundreds, possibly thousands of hours on a leap of faith? If so - dive straight into TA without ever questioning whether the markets are a problem with a mathematical solution.

If you are new - before you dive into all the math-based solutions - read the Triana book as well as "Fooled by Randomness" by Taleb.

I would also recommend you read a Market Wizards book - BUT - make sure you pick one of the updated editions that tells you how all those wizards did after the book was published.

After those three books - you'll be in a good position to figure out whether you need to rely heavily on math-based solutions or to look at other avenues.

 

[intradaybill]

Do not waste money and time with books. Open a demo account and trade. Just trade. That is the ultimate book. Trading is all about what you learn from doing it yourself. Besides, anything you want to know is available for free from myriads of websites. Also, you make publishers rich, as authors do get very little from book sales.

 

[HowardCohodas]

Do not waste money and time with books. Open a demo account and trade. Just trade. That is the ultimate book. Trading is all about what you learn from doing it yourself. Besides, anything you want to know is available for free from myriads of websites. Also, you make publishers rich, as authors do get very little from book sales.

Your advice is not only wrong but harmful.

People have different learning styles. The medium chosen should fit the learning style and be supplemented by material to bring about a complete education.

If the poster's learning style is one where reading is optimal, then that is where he should begin. It should be complemented with paper trading once he begins to form ideas on strategy and wants to test them.

 

[DionysusToast]

Your advice is not only wrong but harmful.

People have different learning styles. The medium chosen should fit the learning style and be supplemented by material to bring about a complete education.

If the poster's learning style is one where reading is optimal, then that is where he should begin. It should be complemented with paper trading once he begins to form ideas on strategy and wants to test them.

Even if the books are full of nonsense ?

 

[HowardCohodas]

Even if the books are full of nonsense ?

I'm not quite so ready to dismiss Dr. Elder in particular. Some whom I respect have found his material useful. I find his insights from his profession as a psychiatrist, well, insightful. I've never been as inspired as some about indicators in general or the ones he uses in particular, however, I find his reasoning behind his choices thought provoking.

I read widely. Whenever I attack a knew knowledge domain, I may consume 15 to 30 books on the subject with the help of my friendly librarian. And I may buy two or three of them that I find useful as references.

As always, both from books and from forum advice, I am a fan of the following.

Trust, but verify.

 

[isatrader]

"Come Into My Trading Room" is one my favourite trading books so far and I’ve read it a few times. His newer book, "Sell and Sell Short" is also very good and helps to explain some of the areas in "Come Into My Trading Room" that were a little unclear. I’m currently reading "The New Market Wizards" and re-reading "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator". I would say you should expose yourself to as many books as possible and then take from them what works for you. There’s no magic formula with trading and everyone does it their own way. So read lots, trade small to begin with and take advice with a pinch of salt and test everything yourself. I personally think money management is the key to doing well, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[FX Bandit]

Which books would you recommended for an ambitious dorm-room trader?

Read Pring on Price Patterns if you must read a technical book. Murphy's OK as well I suppose. But most technical books are utter bullsh1t to be honest. It will take you a long time to unlearn all the garbage you read about.

Reminiscences is the only book you really should read in my opinion. It is invaluable.

 

[Abstract]

Read Pring on Price Patterns if you must read a technical book.

Thanks a lot for the recontamination- just read the preview and the book seems great. I used to question the validity of the dubious "head-and-shoulders, double tops, double bottoms" etc, but for some reason, they just seemed to work quite often.

Eventually, I stumbled upon an article. It seems that the Federal Reserve also shared my initial sentiment in the past. They tested the use of chart patterns, particularly the head and shoulders pattern, and they found it to be statistically significant. As such, they too have started to use it quite extensively.

Found it: http://www.ny.frb.org/research/staff_reports/sr4.html

I'll be sure to buy Pring's book by May 2011.
Edit: Scratch that. Copped the ebook version.

As for Reminiscence of a Stock Operator, I'll borrow it or barter with a friend. I read Liar's Poker a few months back, and for the most part, found it to be a waste.

 

[intradaybill]

Your advice is not only wrong but harmful.

Why do you think concentrating on getting experience is harmful as opposed to reading nonsense and experiences of others?

Before you come too strong here please recommend a book that helped you to find a trading edge. I will rush and buy it right away.

 

[HowardCohodas]

Why do you think concentrating on getting experience is harmful as opposed to reading nonsense and experiences of others?

I do not. However, saying that reading books is useless, especially if that is one's learning style, is indeed harmful.

Your characterization of all books on trading is obviously not shared by me.

Learn from the mistakes of others. You wont live long enough to make them all yourself.

Before you come too strong here please recommend a book that helped you to find a trading edge. I will rush and buy it right away.

I've lost count, but I think I have read somewhere between 50 and 75 books on trading. However, the ones in my library tell the real story.

1. Trading for a Living by Dr. Alexander Elder
2. Design, Testing and Optimization of Trading Systems by Robert Pardo
3. Trading Systems and Methods by Perry J. Kaufman
4. Martin Pring on Market Momentum
5. It's When You Sell That Counts by Donald L. Cassidy
6. All I Know About Trading I Learned in Flight School by Howard Cohodas (to be published)

 

[the hare]

Before you come too strong here please recommend a book that helped you to find a trading edge. I will rush and buy it right away.

As much as I hate to say it, trade your way to financial freedom by Tharp is well worth a read despite the appalling title. It was probably the one and only trading book that helped me find an edge (more accurately, it gave me the basic building blocks to determine a methodology for finding an edge)

Reminiscence of a Stock Operator is a classic, but I dont think you'll find an edge in there.

 

[HowardCohodas]

As much as I hate to say it, trade your way to financial freedom by Tharp is well worth a read despite the appalling title. It was probably the one and only trading book that helped me find an edge (more accurately, it gave me the basic building blocks to determine a methodology for finding an edge)

Reminiscence of a Stock Operator is a classic, but I dont think you'll find an edge in there.

Yes it is. I can't really recall why I don't own it. Probably short of cash at the time.

 

[Abstract]

Trading Systems and Methods by Perry J. Kaufman has also been recommended on numerous occasions, however, I've also been warned that the book can take an excessively "academic" standpoint. It's also fairly pricey.