Where are the successful spreadbetters?

[pasqy2005]

Interesting post. Could you please share on how/what do you analyse your trades?

I could have a go at answering that seeing as i'm doing well with spreadbetting?

I don't use indicators of any kind in my trading, all I use is price and volume. My analysis is based purely on supply and demand and the changes in it's balance.
To see what I mean I would highly recommend looking as TradeGuider | Trading Software | Investment Software | Volume Indicators.
They are currently offering a free download of an ebook which explains chart reading thoroughly and is simply the best book on trading i've ever read.

Hope that helps

 

[jaswells]

I have been spread betting with IG index etc for 10 years or more. I still remember the days pre-online platforms when teletext was an essential tool. For the first 7 years I only made losses, month after month. Over time, however, and an acceptance of my gaming instinct and desitre to abate losses, I became specialised in a handful of sectors. I have now been making consistent monthly profits for 3 years. However, I have now had 2 IG accounts closed and find I can no longer trade with them. This is disappointing however, thanfully, I never gave up my day job.

Some tips:

1) Specialise, specialise. Become a complete expert on a very narrow market and know it BETTER THAN THEM.

2) Get the edge. Find markets were IG might not have the best information available. Find a way of accessing even better information. Exploit it. (sorry know a bit vague)

3) Take losses on the chin. Never ever trade on emotion. When you know your system works you will easily overcome this.

4) Have as many spread accounts as you possibly can. Compare constantly, find the edge.

5) Put in the hours. For me that has been approx 5 hours a day.

Dont trade on direction/ anticipation, trade on imperfect information. Yours must be more perfect than theirs.

Regards
JW

 

[UKtradergirl]

I have been spread betting with IG index etc for 10 years or more. I still remember the days pre-online platforms when teletext was an essential tool. For the first 7 years I only made losses, month after month. Over time, however, and an acceptance of my gaming instinct and desitre to abate losses, I became specialised in a handful of sectors. I have now been making consistent monthly profits for 3 years. However, I have now had 2 IG accounts closed and find I can no longer trade with them. This is disappointing however, thanfully, I never gave up my day job.

Some tips:

1) Specialise, specialise. Become a complete expert on a very narrow market and know it BETTER THAN THEM.

2) Get the edge. Find markets were IG might not have the best information available. Find a way of accessing even better information. Exploit it. (sorry know a bit vague)

3) Take losses on the chin. Never ever trade on emotion. When you know your system works you will easily overcome this.

4) Have as many spread accounts as you possibly can. Compare constantly, find the edge.

5) Put in the hours. For me that has been approx 5 hours a day.

Dont trade on direction/ anticipation, trade on imperfect information. Yours must be more perfect than theirs.

Regards
JW

Why did they close your accounts?



Just wanted to add, why bother trying to find an edge with SB companies?? Why not work on making good trading decisions and letting profits run? Not surprised they closed your account actually if you were 'playing' them.

 

[jaswells]

Why did they close your accounts?



Just wanted to add, why bother trying to find an edge with SB companies?? Why not work on making good trading decisions and letting profits run? Not surprised they closed your account actually if you were 'playing' them.

The letters I have received say they are closed for 'commercial reasons' but have been told I cannot have an account with them.

Quite simply the kind of trades I placed were often shoort term and took advantage of market irregularities/poor pricing by IG. Time and effort pays off. However, they deemed my account too profitable so closed it. This is one good reason I would not advise anyone to bother using spread betting for long term gain. You can spend years refining a strategy to find you are no longer a client they wish to serve.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

jaswell,

but yet you never gave up your day job.

So exactly HOW profitable would you call that strat then.

WTF. I've been spreadbetting for years, in short, I have taken hundreds of thousands from the the market/other clients by way of using Spreadbet firms.

Hows comes I haven't been shut down yet, in fact, many other firms still stay in contact due to wanting my business. Work that one out einstein.

So in short, what your saying is, you made loads but never gave up your day job, they shut you down.

Lol.

I make loads, a living wage by any standards for years, I get spreadbet firms wanting my business.
Difference??????

Also, if you spent years developing a strat then complain cos you got shut down, take it direct to market, or get your friends to open an account and trade it till they get shut down.

Lets face it, they shut people down for attempting underhand tactics, ranting and raving and constant crying down the phone about how they got ripped off, they dont shut people down for winning otherwise they would simply have no one on their books whatsoever.

 

[jaswells]

jaswell,

but yet you never gave up your day job.

So exactly HOW profitable would you call that strat then.

WTF. I've been spreadbetting for years, in short, I have taken hundreds of thousands from the the market/other clients by way of using Spreadbet firms.

Hows comes I haven't been shut down yet, in fact, many other firms still stay in contact due to wanting my business. Work that one out einstein.

So in short, what your saying is, you made loads but never gave up your day job, they shut you down.

Lol.

I make loads, a living wage by any standards for years, I get spreadbet firms wanting my business.
Difference??????

Also, if you spent years developing a strat then complain cos you got shut down, take it direct to market, or get your friends to open an account and trade it till they get shut down.

Lets face it, they shut people down for attempting underhand tactics, ranting and raving and constant crying down the phone about how they got ripped off, they dont shut people down for winning otherwise they would simply have no one on their books whatsoever.

Hi,

I've never given up my day job because i've always considered the the income insecure. Also, I have spent most of the last 7 years living in different parts of Asia which give me the opportunity to use the evenings for my trading time.

To be honest I can only account the difference to the fact I may well trade markets which they cannot hedge against. To be honest I do use a mixture of financial and sports business which, although both profitable, may be the reason for the difference. I have certainly never upset them in any way other than make money off them. To be honest i'm rather surprised you have consistently made the kind of money you suggest without any restrictions being placed on your account. As I say, maybe they have a very effective way of hedging against all you positions, and not so me, therefore I represent a bigger risk to their business structure.

Regards
JW

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Hi,

I've never given up my day job because i've always considered the the income insecure. Also, I have spent most of the last 7 years living in different parts of Asia which give me the opportunity to use the evenings for my trading time.

To be honest I can only account the difference to the fact I may well trade markets which they cannot hedge against. To be honest I do use a mixture of financial and sports business which, although both profitable, may be the reason for the difference. I have certainly never upset them in any way other than make money off them. To be honest i'm rather surprised you have consistently made the kind of money you suggest without any restrictions being placed on your account. As I say, maybe they have a very effective way of hedging against all you positions, and not so me, therefore I represent a bigger risk to their business structure.

Regards
JW

Mate,

You still dont get it.

They can hedge against me by going direct to the market, they cant actively steal from me and if they fill or close at a price too obscure from the market, that would be bought to the attention of the FSA. Simple. They dont need to when they can cover there bets on the market. Every ones a winner.


If your surprised I make that kind of money, dont be, I'm not by any way shape or form the only one, just maybe the only one thats bothered to listen to your raving loosing post and respond.

Dude, if you want to be successful, you can, give up the losing attitude and start thinking somewhat positive, either that or get off the pot.


Food for thought:

You never gave up your day job but got shut down for making too much:

O.k, There have been countless reckless gamblers that have taken 100's of thousands from the SB's before throwing it all back again, what would have stopped them from taking the money and running or simply the SB shutting them down, what makes you specifically different.

If you're playing the market instruments then they can hedge you, fact. Exclusions obviously are, you playing sports business, other exclusions are binary bets, out of hours trading(non futures), arbitrage, scalping and attempting to screw the platform against the graphs in your favour.

So, I take it you trade DMA now?????

 

[jaswells]

Mate,

You still dont get it.

They can hedge against me by going direct to the market, they cant actively steal from me and if they fill or close at a price too obscure from the market, that would be bought to the attention of the FSA. Simple. They dont need to when they can cover there bets on the market. Every ones a winner.


If your surprised I make that kind of money, dont be, I'm not by any way shape or form the only one, just maybe the only one thats bothered to listen to your raving loosing post and respond.

Dude, if you want to be successful, you can, give up the losing attitude and start thinking somewhat positive, either that or get off the pot.


Food for thought:

You never gave up your day job but got shut down for making too much:

O.k, There have been countless reckless gamblers that have taken 100's of thousands from the SB's before throwing it all back again, what would have stopped them from taking the money and running or simply the SB shutting them down, what makes you specifically different.

If you're playing the market instruments then they can hedge you, fact. Exclusions obviously are, you playing sports business, other exclusions are binary bets, out of hours trading(non futures), arbitrage, scalping and attempting to screw the platform against the graphs in your favour.

So, I take it you trade DMA now?????

Lee , you are correct in what you say and the exclusions listed above would be incorporated in the package of strategies I have employed. I just wanted to make the point that they are in the business of closing accounts that are too risky/profitable and I am an example of that twice over. I doubt I ever acquired gains of the level you have but certainly a liveable income over time, BUT, in a manner they don't consider acceptable.

I have taken wild bets and hefty positions and did consistently from 1996-2004. However, I dont have the stomach or status to make this viable any more even though I maintain accounts with other spread bettors. Any positions I hold right now are medium to long term and spend most my time developing sustainable daily strategies with other SB's (Spreadex/tradefair/finspreads etc)

Regards
JW

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Lee , you are correct in what you say and the exclusions listed above would be incorporated in the package of strategies I have employed. I just wanted to make the point that they are in the business of closing accounts that are too risky/profitable and I am an example of that twice over. I doubt I ever acquired gains of the level you have but certainly a liveable income over time, BUT, in a manner they don't consider acceptable.

I have taken wild bets and hefty positions and did consistently from 1996-2004. However, I dont have the stomach or status to make this viable any more even though I maintain accounts with other spread bettors. Any positions I hold right now are medium to long term and spend most my time developing sustainable daily strategies with other SB's (Spreadex/tradefair/finspreads etc)

Regards
JW

O.k, no worries.

Please understand where I'm coming from mate.

Dont take it to heart but so many people (like yourself) come here and spout about how bad these firms and how they rip you off and shut down accounts if you make money but yet (like yourself), still use them. A bit of a p1ss take dont you think?

 

[jaswells]

O.k, no worries.

Please understand where I'm coming from mate.

Dont take it to heart but so many people (like yourself) come here and spout about how bad these firms and how they rip you off and shut down accounts if you make money but yet (like yourself), still use them. A bit of a p1ss take dont you think?

I dont have any gripes with IG as such, they are a business and there to make create a revenue stream. I've also been a shareholder of the company in both their first and second floatation so have a vested interest in their success. I consider Spread betting a challenge and a hobby, and would be willing to take losses, but lost the appetite for those big hits a while ago. I actually have a fascination with the company, have a friend who work for them and diligently read any company reports with interest. This thread was about successfull S'Bettors, and in that respect I consider myself one. I hope others out there are like yourself and can find this pastime mentally AND financially rewarding.

TOP TIP: Never log onto Puredeal after 8 pints of Stella.

Regards
JW

 

[stevespray]

Mate,

You still dont get it.

They can hedge against me by going direct to the market, they cant actively steal from me and if they fill or close at a price too obscure from the market, that would be bought to the attention of the FSA. Simple. They dont need to when they can cover there bets on the market. Every ones a winner.


If your surprised I make that kind of money, dont be, I'm not by any way shape or form the only one, just maybe the only one thats bothered to listen to your raving loosing post and respond.

Dude, if you want to be successful, you can, give up the losing attitude and start thinking somewhat positive, either that or get off the pot.


Food for thought:

You never gave up your day job but got shut down for making too much:

O.k, There have been countless reckless gamblers that have taken 100's of thousands from the SB's before throwing it all back again, what would have stopped them from taking the money and running or simply the SB shutting them down, what makes you specifically different.

If you're playing the market instruments then they can hedge you, fact. Exclusions obviously are, you playing sports business, other exclusions are binary bets, out of hours trading(non futures), arbitrage, scalping and attempting to screw the platform against the graphs in your favour.

So, I take it you trade DMA now?????

Lee,

Whilst I agree with much of what you say you don't cover all the angles. For example, what about 'out of hours markets' (like FTSE & Dax), 'binary bets' and clients who trade shorter time frames - all areas which the SB firms cannot hedge against?

Year on year I've been a profitable trader through spreadbetting going back around 8 years which is when I opened my first account. What I have found in that time is that these firms will 'fiddle' with your trading. This is especially so on binary bets where speedy execution at the quoted prices is so important. I've had accounts with more than one firm where, all of a sudden, trading becomes vastly more difficult on these products. Finspreads actually limited my account to £1 per point on Binary Bets and told me that I should 'take it as a compliment'!

Why do they do all this? I'll tell you.... It's because it's not quite as black and white as you make out. If your trading happeneds to fall in any of the catagories which I previously mentioned then, generally speaking, your gains are the firms losses.

Steve.

 

[tar]

They stopped Jaswells because he took advantage of poor pricing at IG platform ...

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Lee,

Whilst I agree with much of what you say you don't cover all the angles. For example, what about 'out of hours markets' (like FTSE & Dax), 'binary bets' and clients who trade shorter time frames - all areas which the SB firms cannot hedge against?

Year on year I've been a profitable trader through spreadbetting going back around 8 years which is when I opened my first account. What I have found in that time is that these firms will 'fiddle' with your trading. This is especially so on binary bets where speedy execution at the quoted prices is so important. I've had accounts with more than one firm where, all of a sudden, trading becomes vastly more difficult on these products. Finspreads actually limited my account to £1 per point on Binary Bets and told me that I should 'take it as a compliment'!

Why do they do all this? I'll tell you.... It's because it's not quite as black and white as you make out. If your trading happeneds to fall in any of the catagories which I previously mentioned then, generally speaking, your gains are the firms losses.

Steve.

Hi mate,

Long time no hear. Hope everything is well.

Anyway, please please please read the post before commenting dude.

The last paragrapgh of the post you comment on clearly states:


"If you're playing the market instruments then they can hedge you, fact. Exclusions obviously are, you playing sports business, other exclusions are binary bets, out of hours trading(non futures), arbitrage, scalping and attempting to screw the platform against the graphs in your favour."

Now I cant cover all angles, I grant you that, but I have covered the exact angles you are going on about.

 

[TomTom]

Not so many sucsessfull SB custermers due to how they opperate.
They can close you out or reject orders in hours for an excuse such as not enough volume ( even when there is )
They can then close/stop you out in out of hours at a price and excute this order when there is no volume in the market.

It baffles me how SB Firms can do this and get away with such foul play.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Not so many sucsessfull SB custermers due to how they opperate.
They can close you out or reject orders in hours for an excuse such as not enough volume ( even when there is )
They can then close/stop you out in out of hours at a price and excute this order when there is no volume in the market.

It baffles me how SB Firms can do this and get away with such foul play.

Mate, I kid you not, if I were sat opposite you
or in a bar, I would have insulted you so bad by now that you would have slaughtered me.

Tom thumb loves it up the.....mountain

And yet your the looooser who still uses them, hypocrite to say the least, dont take it personally, I just think your a tw4t......for moderaters purposes, the 4 is an 'I'.

 

[UKtradergirl]

jaswell,

but yet you never gave up your day job.

So exactly HOW profitable would you call that strat then.

WTF. I've been spreadbetting for years, in short, I have taken hundreds of thousands from the the market/other clients by way of using Spreadbet firms.

Hows comes I haven't been shut down yet, in fact, many other firms still stay in contact due to wanting my business. Work that one out einstein.

So in short, what your saying is, you made loads but never gave up your day job, they shut you down.

Lol.

I make loads, a living wage by any standards for years, I get spreadbet firms wanting my business.
Difference??????

Also, if you spent years developing a strat then complain cos you got shut down, take it direct to market, or get your friends to open an account and trade it till they get shut down.

Lets face it, they shut people down for attempting underhand tactics, ranting and raving and constant crying down the phone about how they got ripped off, they dont shut people down for winning otherwise they would simply have no one on their books whatsoever.

Lee,

Just out of interest, how long do you normally hold your trades for?

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Lee,

Just out of interest, how long do you normally hold your trades for?

Due to market conditions its average is aprox 13 minutes last week and around 25 minutes the week before.

Generaly the longer I can hold the trade the more I make.

 

[TomTom]

Mate, I kid you not, if I were sat opposite you
or in a bar, I would have insulted you so bad by now that you would have slaughtered me.

Tom thumb loves it up the.....mountain

And yet your the looooser who still uses them, hypocrite to say the least, dont take it personally, I just think your a tw4t......for moderaters purposes, the 4 is an 'I'.

Now you really do take this personelly.
Are you on commision to promote SB Firms ?

I dought it very much that you would be near me in a pub M8, but you would reconise me I would be the one with the BAN THE SB FIRM tee shirt LOL :clap:

You would be pesently surprised then as I would buy you all the beers you can drink as I can afford it as I mainly trade DMA :clap:

 

[montmorencyt2w]

I have been spread betting with IG index etc for 10 years or more. I still remember the days pre-online platforms when teletext was an essential tool. For the first 7 years I only made losses, month after month. Over time, however, and an acceptance of my gaming instinct and desitre to abate losses, I became specialised in a handful of sectors. I have now been making consistent monthly profits for 3 years. However, I have now had 2 IG accounts closed and find I can no longer trade with them. This is disappointing however, thanfully, I never gave up my day job.
JW

JW,

1. Why did you continue for 7 years, when you were losing all that time?

2. IG - It sounds like you were one of those (talked about in other threads) whom the SB firm took a dislike to because they were too successful.

If this is generally true (and I thought IG were one of the more respectable firms), then that does seem to suggest a rather pessimistic outlook for spread-betting (from the trader's point of view):

either,

a) We are one of the 95% of losers, and that's not much fun, OR
b) We are one of the 5% of winners, but after a while, we find we can't trade with our favourite SB firm. Of course there is always another firm, but surely the same thing will happen (and that's if they don't pass the word around on their private grapevine, blacklisting winning traders...).

I have to say that even common sense would suggest that no business is going to be happy about giving away a sizeable chunk of its profits on a regular basis to the same small group of people (or indeed any people), even if we think we have earned that money fairly and squarely, playing by their rules.


Or is this all being hopelessly pessimistic?

 

[jaswells]

JW,

1. Why did you continue for 7 years, when you were losing all that time?

2. IG - It sounds like you were one of those (talked about in other threads) whom the SB firm took a dislike to because they were too successful.

If this is generally true (and I thought IG were one of the more respectable firms), then that does seem to suggest a rather pessimistic outlook for spread-betting (from the trader's point of view):

either,

a) We are one of the 95% of losers, and that's not much fun, OR
b) We are one of the 5% of winners, but after a while, we find we can't trade with our favourite SB firm. Of course there is always another firm, but surely the same thing will happen (and that's if they don't pass the word around on their private grapevine, blacklisting winning traders...).

I have to say that even common sense would suggest that no business is going to be happy about giving away a sizeable chunk of its profits on a regular basis to the same small group of people (or indeed any people), even if we think we have earned that money fairly and squarely, playing by their rules.


Or is this all being hopelessly pessimistic?

Hi,

My personal opinion is that it ultimately depends on what you trade. I traded for 7 years as a hobby but lost a significant slice of my income at the time. Any SB company will ultimately limit or close your account if they dont have any effective mechanism to lay off your trades. Also, If they consider that you may have better/inside information compared to them then your accounts days are numbered. Yes, this is a pessimistic view, but, you can keep an account open if you trade the right markets ie either highly liquid or SB firm has hedgeing mechanism.

They are a bookie taking bets after all and I think some forget that.