What caused the Ireland crisis...in brief?

[Atilla]

The question isn't "What caused the Irish crisis",..but how come the same crisis is developing throughout every western country,..at approx' the same time ?
Is it mere coincidence theory, or are there more fundamental reasons,....
The clue maybe in the title of this article:
"Crafting the agenda for the 21st century"

http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php/aid/519/Crafting_the_agenda_for_the_21st_century.html

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_M_Rothschild_&_Sons

Yes I concur and this hits the nail on the head if you wish to have a fruitful discussion and draw lessons to be learnt.

One could say capitalism caused it as it is seem to be failing if market forces can not rectify disequilibrium of what ever nature and Governments feel to step in.

For a capitalist system to have the G-force step in must be like angels asking for charity from the devil himself.

Yet people talk about cutting back on Govie sector and social services, handouts and give away to cheapskates. Hillariously funny if it wasn't such a big sucuk.


I read somewhere a distinction made that the Irish issue was a private enterprise mess and the Greek one a government social side mess. I can see where they are coming from.


Finally, if you get all the fraudsters on DSS who could work but don't and total up the money spent I wonder whether it would reach £5bn.

I would recommend you start with a few micro points and expand out to macro view. Either way - points made by various esteemed characters on these blogs have answered all possible factors and you can emphasise which ever suits the companies point of view in a tactful appropriate manner such as to maximise your entitlement to job offer.

Remember you are the best man for the job and make decisions as if it was your company that you were running rather than working for someone else.

 

[BSD]

No idea who resuscitated Trader Daily that was a victim of the advertising slump of the financial crisis, but someone has as they're up, running and publishing again:

"Irish Eyes Aren’t Smiling: The Ghost of Depression Future"

http://www.traderdaily.com/2010/11/irish-eyes-aren’t-smiling-the-ghost-of-depression-future/

It really is too bad the whole thing, people and irrational greed do not good, sustainable companions make.

Ah well the next bubble is going to be round the corner somewhere, that much is guaranteed.

 

[counter_violent]

Finally, if you get all the fraudsters on DSS who could work but don't and total up the money spent I wonder whether it would reach £5bn.

£5bn per anum x last 20 yrs. Yep that should just about sort out their debt problem.

 

[Atilla]

£5bn per anum x last 20 yrs. Yep that should just about sort out their debt problem.

You got it all wrong?

I've said this before - you need to think where poor people spend their money.

In most economies the black market economy pays no tax and is very efficient. People get by and often sow the seeds of bigger business. Everyone starts off this way.


You consider the 12Bn bonuses paid by banks to traders who blow it on fast cars and foreign crap and booze and then **** it away.

Poor peoples monies goes into the endegonous economy on the whole like food clothing and houses.

Seriously - the focus is on the litle piddly stuff whilst great big mammoth mistakes are made on like the millenium dome and numerous other dead ducks - ie NHS IT and Bank projects that come to nothing. Local Counciller expenses etc etc etc.

You also have to remember - most people on benefit are not crooks or fraudsters. Of that £5bn perhaps 150-500m is fraud. It's not even worth talking about.


But it makes big wigs and stuck up creatures feel good. You know the ones who get rewarded for failing.


Now cutting NHS expenditure and Defence that is where the big bucks are. I reckon people should be allocated a certain token of health and if you drink smoke adn are obese and suffer strokes then once your token share is up - tough titty.

As for defence - what good has the army done in the last 100 years - other than defending the Falklands which I accept was valid cause for war?

Red mist and lot of BS.


As for Ireland Crises - that wasn't caused by hand outs and freebies to the unemployed was it? More like hand outs by tax concessions to people who didn't need any encouragement...

Think CV - with rational thought rather than your prejudice and where the newspapers takes you. :idea:

 

[pboyles]

Bad karma finally catching up with them for supporting the Nazis during WW2

During and after WW2 actually. Many Nazi's were sheltered in Ireland including Albert Luykx who was later allegedly involved with former Prime Minister Charles Haughey in gun running for the IRA.

http://www.mazalien.com/irelands-nazis.html

None of this has anything to do with the current crisis but it might go some way to explaining the lack of sympathy in some quarters.

 

[counter_violent]

You got it all wrong?

No i'm 100% right.
I've said this before - you need to think where poor people spend their money.

No I don't.
In most economies the black market economy pays no tax and is very efficient. People get by and often sow the seeds of bigger business. Everyone starts off this way.

Absolutely correct. Instead of everyone holding their hands out for the freebies. Govt should be the safety net of final resort and not the first port of call !
You consider the 12Bn bonuses paid by banks to traders who blow it on fast cars and foreign crap and booze and then **** it away.

I couldn't care less what they spend it on. If they are spending then they are contributing back into the system.

Poor peoples monies goes into the endegonous economy on the whole like food clothing and houses.

It still would regardless of source. However the fags and booze and sattelite TV may have to go
Seriously - the focus is on the litle piddly stuff whilst great big mammoth mistakes are made on like the millenium dome and numerous other dead ducks - ie NHS IT and Bank projects that come to nothing. Local Counciller expenses etc etc etc.

Couldn't agree more. I'd stop the lot.
You also have to remember - most people on benefit are not crooks or fraudsters. Of that £5bn perhaps 150-500m is fraud. It's not even worth talking about.

This misses the point completely. It all needs funding. Not by adding it to the debt.
Whatever happened to balanced books !

But it makes big wigs and stuck up creatures feel good. You know the ones who get rewarded for failing.

Rewarding failure has to change...it is a complete nonsense.

Now cutting NHS expenditure and Defence that is where the big bucks are. I reckon people should be allocated a certain token of health and if you drink smoke adn are obese and suffer strokes then once your token share is up - tough titty.

Two tier health system would be good ...One for those who contribute in taxes and One for spongers scroungers and non contributers.
As for defence - what good has the army done in the last 100 years - other than defending the Falklands which I accept was valid cause for war?

Red mist and lot of BS.

What have the romans ever done for us?

As for Ireland Crises - that wasn't caused by hand outs and freebies to the unemployed was it? More like hand outs by tax concessions to people who didn't need any encouragement...

Think CV - with rational thought rather than your prejudice and where the newspapers takes you. :idea:

Socialism in a nutshell cannot ever work alongside free market economics. As soon as govt starts interfering it buggers up the dynamic. This is where we are today.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Hedge funds et al

 

[Atilla]

Socialism in a nutshell cannot ever work alongside free market economics. As soon as govt starts interfering it buggers up the dynamic. This is where we are today.

You are soooooooooooooo in denial... You pulling mi leg


CV forgive me for poking fun but do you realise how profound your comments are in light of the past two years events?

 

[MrGecko]

Why is nobody laughing at my Punt / Euro joke?!

 

[MrGecko]

international free trade doesn't really work IMO. Not without G'ments getting involved, anyway.

 

[spreader_legger]

Hey there buddy!

Ireland's no Greece.

The problem wasn't the public sector, which incidentally ran surpluses, but rather the banks - who lent unscrupulously to their buddies within the private sector

You serious moar ?

Spending more than you sustainably have, in a nutshell.

Eg Ireland had some of the highest civil service salaries, while simultaneously having some of the lowest taxes.

If you have a store and you keep spending more than you make you'll face problems eventually, and selling your stuff to people who buy on credit coz they think they can afford it coz their house values are gonna keep going up forever coz its a new paradigm doesn't make your business model any more solid either.

 

[spreader_legger]

Sorry BSD ... didn't know your age!

I'll try to be more gentlemanly in future

Haha I didn't even know or at least not remember that !!!



I was actually out partying a bit the other night and met this really lovely mother / daughter combo from Ireland who'd come on a visit to Germany coz the lil one liked Tokio Hotel.

Had some good laughs with them, very sweet people.

Oh, and they could drink ;-)))

 

[spreader_legger]

In actual fact, during the boom times, a lot of the Irish did move back

Too true. No doubt anyone who was cautious during the boom times was laughed at. It's human nature.........

But here's an idea for many of the Irish who go on and on about how great Ireland is, but don't actually live there. Why not move back to paradise? Mass re-immigration would be great for the country.

 

[spreader_legger]

Atilla .. for once we agree on something

we are punishing the wrong people for all of this.

Why not try and claw back some of the cash given away in bonuses for actions perpetrated by unscrupulous bankers in the past, for which the tax payer is having to foot the bill?

The entire financial system seems to be run by Kozlowski type figures (the notorious ex Tyco boss) who treat other peoples' money as their own.

The problem is, as things stand, people are not made accountable for the impact their actions may have on future events. I know that legislatively this may prove difficult to achieve under the current system .... but something needs to be done about all of this!

Yes I concur and this hits the nail on the head if you wish to have a fruitful discussion and draw lessons to be learnt.

One could say capitalism caused it as it is seem to be failing if market forces can not rectify disequilibrium of what ever nature and Governments feel to step in.

For a capitalist system to have the G-force step in must be like angels asking for charity from the devil himself.

Yet people talk about cutting back on Govie sector and social services, handouts and give away to cheapskates. Hillariously funny if it wasn't such a big sucuk.


I read somewhere a distinction made that the Irish issue was a private enterprise mess and the Greek one a government social side mess. I can see where they are coming from.


Finally, if you get all the fraudsters on DSS who could work but don't and total up the money spent I wonder whether it would reach £5bn.

I would recommend you start with a few micro points and expand out to macro view. Either way - points made by various esteemed characters on these blogs have answered all possible factors and you can emphasise which ever suits the companies point of view in a tactful appropriate manner such as to maximise your entitlement to job offer.

Remember you are the best man for the job and make decisions as if it was your company that you were running rather than working for someone else.

 

[spreader_legger]

P.S Due to the inter temporal nature of the financial system, any profits (bonuses) currently made by the financial system are only made by the grace of the tax payers' bail out package

 

[doberman]

BREAKING NEWS.
Sir BOB Geldof has just confirmed that a fundraising concert for Ireland will be held in ethiopia at christmas

 

[TheBramble]

Just a quick response to the few that suggest that 'everyone' caused the Ireland debt crisis.

If 'everyone' caused it, 'everyone' would have benefited equally during the boom and all would be similarly and equally negatively impacted to roughly the same degree on the bust.

This simply isn't the case. We know quite well who loses and who wins in these situations. The same group that always wins and the same group that always loses.

The root cause of Ireland's debt crisis is the same as the root cause of every other debt crisis. If we forget the recent history of the S. American and Russian efforts as crises which were muted in comaprison, we only need to go back to the late 60s early 70s where Africa was the debt crisis geographical area of choice.

Foreign debt. Does it every time.

In Africa's case, the colonial powers saddled them from the off. In Ireland's case, as Gecko points out in far fewer words than me, they saddled themselves.

The UK was probably only by dint of its non-euro affiliation able to avoid messing up a perfectly reasonable acronym. Just where would you fit a 'U' into PIIGS?

 

[doberman]

Any of you guys long the bank of Ireland / rbs and if not why not at 26.57 /38.76 they have to be on the buy list ?

 

[MikeMorris]

Possibly that the AAA rated CDOs are not available at 8% anymore and the bond traders and portfolio managers need another cash cow to milk!
The whole story has been such a comedy of errors so far, why not just try the obvious answer. Afterall those cdos did have debt mixed in them from Strawberry pickers on $17k getting multimillion dollar loans for mansions. Anybody read the big short or liars poker ??

 

[FX Bandit]

Too much sodomy.