WallStreet - The New Breed of Celebrities!

[Kingwizz]

I maybe completely alone here. Does anyone else feel that WallStreet & the Financial Markets are going to be the new cool? That very successful traders will become celebrities when people realize that they shape the world & their actions could have effects on everyone (As Micheal Douglas so accuratley displayed "Greed is Good")? At the moment (being a young trader with an aim at being the new WallStreet-Wonderkid) it just annoys how people are so oblivious to how the markets shape their lives & I think it time we got some just recognition! Please say there are peopl here that can relate to my frustration & anger!

 

[0007]

I maybe completely alone here. Does anyone else feel that WallStreet & the Financial Markets are going to be the new cool? That very successful traders will become celebrities when people realize that they shape the world & their actions could have effects on everyone (As Micheal Douglas so accuratley displayed "Greed is Good")? At the moment (being a young trader with an aim at being the new WallStreet-Wonderkid) it just annoys how people are so oblivious to how the markets shape their lives & I think it time we got some just recognition! Please say there are peopl here that can relate to my frustration & anger!

But do traders shape peoples lives ? I thought they were just smart people who spot opportunities and make a bob or two. I suppose the exception might be those involved in the sub-prime fiasco - that will certainly shape some lives. Surely it's the politicians / unions / entrepreneurs / CEOs and movements like the green industry that make the running - the City follows (or not).

Some people think traders are just parasites. Your Average Sun Reader has only contempt and envy for traders. The only recognition you will get (in UK at least) is paying more tax.

All IMHO

 

[rols]

I maybe completely alone here. Does anyone else feel that WallStreet & the Financial Markets are going to be the new cool? That very successful traders will become celebrities when people realize that they shape the world & their actions could have effects on everyone (As Micheal Douglas so accuratley displayed "Greed is Good")? At the moment (being a young trader with an aim at being the new WallStreet-Wonderkid) it just annoys how people are so oblivious to how the markets shape their lives & I think it time we got some just recognition! Please say there are peopl here that can relate to my frustration & anger!

Perish the thought. How about deifying any traders that make over 100 million in their careers? In fact Wall Street could become a Mecca with dollar thirsty pilgrims having to walk around the block five times.

The credit crunch has provided the recognition you crave. I think people do understand how the markets and traders shape their lives. The current public perception seems to be that traders gamble and lose honest hard working peoples money then get paid a huge bonus for doing so.

 

[Vaco]

havnt you heard,

soaring oil prices are a direct result of greedy traders activities, if you have made money trading oil i would keep it to myself if i was you or you might get recognition from a lynch mob!

 

[Kingwizz]

I do see where you are coming from. Though on the same side of the coin you refer to these "politicians / unions / entrepreneurs / CEOs". Some get recognised (for good or bad). George Bush, Richard Branson. Though there are limits to what (I completely agree with) the average Sun Reader makes of these in terms of celebrity status. Mostly it is the two bob celebrities who can pretend they're someone else, or rhyme some lyrics together to a bass drum. I do not immediatley refer to general traders (or what the Sun readers would call stock brokers - I could not hate anybody more than these salesmen). But those that run the Hedge-funds that make billions a year. Those that control the banks. Those that run the billion footed beast. Their decisions vastly contribute to how much someone pays on a mortgage, how much someone gets paid. Whether someone can even get a mortgage. As a collective of traders & investors they control the how much $ someone gets for their £ when they go abroad. Yet how many traders can you name? Nick leeson - what an example of the elite. No, I really don't think there are many.

This is not just the only point. I am sure most traders will agree (most who have adequate knowledge) that what happens on the market has a direct effect on the world. An estate of houses not being built because a company cannot raise finance due to the lack of investment? I could go on. Yet what recognition does this power have from "Mr. I am a financial expert & can predict what will happen next because I read the Sun & I think that everybody who works in finance is a stock broker". This is just summarized by George Bush's recent comments "Wall Street Got Drunk". In the same video he say "We need to put away these financial instruments". Clearly not understanding that a financial instrument is a mortgage, loan, Stock, Currency & everything else. Please say someone can relate!

 

[rols]

I do see where you are coming from. Though on the same side of the coin you refer to these "politicians / unions / entrepreneurs / CEOs". Some get recognised (for good or bad). George Bush, Richard Branson. Though there are limits to what (I completely agree with) the average Sun Reader makes of these in terms of celebrity status. Mostly it is the two bob celebrities who can pretend they're someone else, or rhyme some lyrics together to a bass drum. I do not immediatley refer to general traders (or what the Sun readers would call stock brokers - I could not hate anybody more than these salesmen). But those that run the Hedge-funds that make billions a year. Those that control the banks. Those that run the billion footed beast. Their decisions vastly contribute to how much someone pays on a mortgage, how much someone gets paid. Whether someone can even get a mortgage. As a collective of traders & investors they control the how much $ someone gets for their £ when they go abroad. Yet how many traders can you name? Nick leeson - what an example of the elite. No, I really don't think there are many.

This is not just the only point. I am sure most traders will agree (most who have adequate knowledge) that what happens on the market has a direct effect on the world. An estate of houses not being built because a company cannot raise finance due to the lack of investment? I could go on. Yet what recognition does this power have from "Mr. I am a financial expert & can predict what will happen next because I read the Sun & I think that everybody who works in finance is a stock broker". This is just summarized by George Bush's recent comments "Wall Street Got Drunk". In the same video he say "We need to put away these financial instruments". Clearly not understanding that a financial instrument is a mortgage, loan, Stock, Currency & everything else. Please say someone can relate!

Er how about this?

Derivatives bubble explodes five times bigger in five years
Wall Street didn't listen to Buffett. Derivatives grew into a massive bubble, from about $100 trillion to $516 trillion by 2007. The new derivatives bubble was fueled by five key economic and political trends:
Sarbanes-Oxley increased corporate disclosures and government oversight
Federal Reserve's cheap money policies created the subprime-housing boom
War budgets burdened the U.S. Treasury and future entitlements programs
Trade deficits with China and others destroyed the value of the U.S. dollar
Oil and commodity rich nations demanding equity payments rather than debt
In short, despite Buffett's clear warnings, a massive new derivatives bubble is driving the domestic and global economies, a bubble that continues growing today parallel with the subprime-credit meltdown triggering a bear-recession.
Data on the five-fold growth of derivatives to $516 trillion in five years comes from the most recent survey by the Bank of International Settlements, the world's clearinghouse for central banks in Basel, Switzerland. The BIS is like the cashier's window at a racetrack or casino, where you'd place a bet or cash in chips, except on a massive scale: BIS is where the U.S. settles trade imbalances with Saudi Arabia for all that oil we guzzle and gives China IOUs for the tainted drugs and lead-based toys we buy.
To grasp how significant this five-fold bubble increase is, let's put that $516 trillion in the context of some other domestic and international monetary data:
U.S. annual gross domestic product is about $15 trillion
U.S. money supply is also about $15 trillion
Current proposed U.S. federal budget is $3 trillion
U.S. government's maximum legal debt is $9 trillion
U.S. mutual fund companies manage about $12 trillion
World's GDPs for all nations is approximately $50 trillion
Unfunded Social Security and Medicare benefits $50 trillion to $65 trillion
Total value of the world's real estate is estimated at about $75 trillion
Total value of world's stock and bond markets is more than $100 trillion
BIS valuation of world's derivatives back in 2002 was about $100 trillion
BIS 2007 valuation of the world's derivatives is now a whopping $516 trillion
Moreover, the folks at BIS tell me their estimate of $516 trillion only includes "transactions in which a major private dealer (bank) is involved on at least one side of the transaction," but doesn't include private deals between two "non-reporting entities." They did, however, add that their reporting central banks estimate that the coverage of the survey is around 95% on average.
Also, keep in mind that while the $516 trillion "notional" value (maximum in case of a meltdown) of the deals is a good measure of the market's size, the 2007 BIS study notes that the $11 trillion "gross market values provides a more accurate measure of the scale of financial risk transfer taking place in derivatives markets."
Bubbles, domino effects and the 'bad 2%'
However, while that may be true as far as the parties to an individual deal, there are broader risks to the world's economies. Remember back in 1998 when LTCM's little $5 billion loss nearly brought down the world's banking system. That "domino effect" is now repeating many times over, straining the world's monetary, economic and political system as the subprime housing mess metastasizes, taking the U.S. stock market and the world economy down with it.
This cascading "domino effect" was brilliantly described in "The $300 Trillion Time Bomb: If Buffett can't figure out derivatives, can anybody?" published early last year in Portfolio magazine, a couple months before the subprime meltdown. Columnist Jesse Eisinger's $300 trillion figure came from an earlier study of the derivatives market as it was growing from $100 trillion to $516 trillion over five years. Eisinger concluded:
"There's nothing intrinsically scary about derivatives, except when the bad 2% blow up." Unfortunately, that "bad 2%" did blow up a few months afterwards, even as Bernanke and Paulson were assuring America that the subprime mess was "contained."
Bottom line: Little things leverage a heck of a big wallop. It only takes a little spark from a "bad 2% deal" to ignite this $516 trillion weapon of mass destruction. Think of this entire unregulated derivatives market like an unsecured, unpredictable nuclear bomb in a Pakistan stockpile. It's only a matter of time.
World's newest and biggest 'black market'
The fact is, derivatives have become the world's biggest "black market," exceeding the illicit traffic in stuff like arms, drugs, alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, stolen art and pirated movies. Why? Because like all black markets, derivatives are a perfect way of getting rich while avoiding taxes and government regulations. And in today's slowdown, plus a volatile global market, Wall Street knows derivatives remain a lucrative business.
Recently Pimco's bond fund king Bill Gross said "What we are witnessing is essentially the breakdown of our modern-day banking system, a complex of leveraged lending so hard to understand that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke required a face-to-face refresher course from hedge fund managers in mid-August." In short, not only Warren Buffett, but Bond King Bill Gross, our Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and the rest of America's leaders can't "figure out" the world's $516 trillion derivatives.
Why? Gross says we are creating a new "shadow banking system." Derivatives are now not just risk management tools. As Gross and others see it, the real problem is that derivatives are now a new way of creating money outside the normal central bank liquidity rules. How? Because they're private contracts between two companies or institutions.
BIS is primarily a records-keeper, a toothless tiger that merely collects data giving a legitimacy and false sense of security to this chaotic "shadow banking system" that has become the world's biggest "black market."
That's crucial, folks. Why? Because central banks require reserves like stock brokers require margins, something backing up the transaction. Derivatives don't. They're not "real money." They're paper promises closer to "Monopoly" money than real U.S. dollars.
And it takes place outside normal business channels, out there in the "free market." That's the wonderful world of derivatives, and it's creating a massive bubble that could soon implode.
Comments? Yes, we want to hear your thoughts. Tell us what you think about derivatives: as "financial weapons of mass destruction;" as a "shadow banking system;" as a "black market;" as the next big bubble dangerously exposing us to that unpredictable "bad 2%."

Derivatives are the new ticking time bomb - MarketWatch

 

[sinimini]

Kingwizz, I dont see you convicing anyone after the above comment! Not that you would have convinced me anyway as it sounds like your well on the way to selling your soul...

 

[Kingwizz]

Sorry for my delay. I'm doing work experience a fund so Only get on the computer there in the mornings. At first it was meant as a joke as I was under the impression most people here worked with or around the markets. I must admit at the time I was probably a bit caught up in the atmosphere & now realizing the severity of my previous words withdraw any comments which may have caused offense. I think what was more on the lines of what I actually meant was that it frustrates me how people do not appreciate the importance of the Stock Market (& their derivatives as so kindly pointed out above). The way to them it is just viewed as something completely abstract which is has no effect on them. The whole traders bit was a bit silly I must admit now reflecting upon it. As I say originally it was meant as a joke (Hence the reason it says wall-street, the new celebrities. Unfortunatley it is probably true that most traders aren't the Gisele Bundchen of this world).

 

[0007]

Sorry for my delay. I'm doing work experience a fund so Only get on the computer there in the mornings. At first it was meant as a joke as I was under the impression most people here worked with or around the markets. I must admit at the time I was probably a bit caught up in the atmosphere & now realizing the severity of my previous words withdraw any comments which may have caused offense. I think what was more on the lines of what I actually meant was that it frustrates me how people do not appreciate the importance of the Stock Market (& their derivatives as so kindly pointed out above). The way to them it is just viewed as something completely abstract which is has no effect on them. The whole traders bit was a bit silly I must admit now reflecting upon it. As I say originally it was meant as a joke (Hence the reason it says wall-street, the new celebrities. Unfortunatley it is probably true that most traders aren't the Gisele Bundchen of this world).

What a refreshingly honest and mature statement. You should go far. Good luck.

 

[Mr.J-Arthur]

Trading IS cool! It's also an independent activity for self-driven individuals. Who doesn't want to be self-employed? I get to "work" in my PJ's while I cook up breakfast, listen to music and then within 2 hours of market open, my day is finished! Extra time is used to read and do research (my favorite part other than actual trading). I also get plenty of sleep and exercise (weights and roadbiking!).

I agree that most people are clueless about the economy and the markets but I do not dare complain, because that's how us traders can win in the great zero sum game! I don't earn a huge bonus unless I make awesome trades.

Trading is the best "job" in the world. There is nothing immoral or wrong about trading any commodity or other instrument! It's all just a bunch of crap with a price that moves up or down.

I don't want recognition anyways. Most traders just want to be able to live comfortably and be able to eat, sleep, travel and breath clean air. Forget being famous...all we want is consistant profit every day...and to be able to afford the extras (you know, dining out, vacation, bars and clubs, and even being able to donate to ACLU, american cancer society, or other charity).

It's okay to be greedy, but pay it forward after life is good to you!

I wish I was Gisele Bundchen...I'd be looking at my chest all day

 

[Kingwizz]

I wish I was Gisele Bundchen...I'd be looking at my chest all day

Yeh. Suppose there's no harm in being a lingerie model earning $35million a year & having the world's most expensive NFL player as your boyfriend (Not that I digg that way). Strange you mention the Zero-Sum Gain factor. Only because today after discussing with an analyst (very slack kind) about markets. I mentioned that I was a betfair trader & commented upon the principles of betting exchanges being related to the stock market. After I asking a question (can't remember precisely) I was told that it is not a Zero-Sum Gain market. Anyway, there's some trivia incase you are ever asked of my life story in a pub quiz. Personally I would love to be famous (probably being too young). Yeh, WallStreet-Wonder. I like that. 19, makes frequent returns of 100% a year. Known for living the high-life, giving generously to charity. Then maybe one day I stroll upto the NYSE & Some famous brazilian lingerie model is being a pretty face at a company floating. . . . Sorry I just completely lost all concept or reality (& risk). Beat that Gisele!

 

[luckyd1976]

I think what was more on the lines of what I actually meant was that it frustrates me how people do not appreciate the importance of the Stock Market (& their derivatives as so kindly pointed out above). The way to them it is just viewed as something completely abstract which is has no effect on them.

So true. I occasionally get into these conversations with some friends of mine.

The Markets effect everyone one way or another.
I find that most people are either
1) bewildered by it
2) intimidated by it
3) fascinated by it but are to #2) or
4)Old school we should never talk about money.

But the ones that really get me are the people who blame the markets for everything wrong.

 

[Pat494]

Behind every Gisele there is an army of hanger-ons that manage their money, carry their bags, mow their lawns etc. They are trading on her success really. A couple of wrinkles appearing on baby-doll and a lot of them could be out of a job !!
And as for politicians !! They take the biscuit when it comes to riding on others, except perhaps lawyers, accountants etc.

 

[sinimini]

Gravy train! All aboard! Glad you have seen the light Kingwizz. Money can change people into saints or monsters through having plenty of it or a complete lack of it in no particular correlation. Its really who you surround yourself with that maintains your overall outlook on things and mental balance. A few wealthy guys I know, one or two I grew up with, have either drink problems or social problems where they think the whole world revolves around them! These problems are manifestations of their own inner demons. Sill its not like I am perfect...yet.
The hedge fund I spent time with were a very talented bunch with a good few of them being worth hundreds of millions. All young bright people, the only one I came across who had a BIG ASS ego was the forex trader, but thats not uncommon. They were very concious of how they were trading on peoples fortune (in a sense). If something bad happened to a countrys economy, or a new bomb went off somewhere that meant big bucks for their position, they would feel a kind of tainted success as they were well aware of the suffering. However, the buzz word around there was 'rationality'.
Some of the most successful traders are the most normal guys you will ever meet. Something worth keeping in mind for all of us.

 

[SAINT]

Kingwizz- 'Celebrity' sells because people aspire to live others' lives and to peer into a world they can't have. Not many people (especially sun readers) have a desire to sit behind a computer screen all day in a stiff suit, taking orders and crunching numbers. Many traders/investors have little social skills and are secretive therefore reducing their celebrity potential further. People would much rather be sportsmen or an actor- a few mill a year with no qualifications and corporate ladder.

 

[Kingwizz]

I have to say sometimes I do wonder the actual meaning of the word "celebrity". If a celebrity is someone "Famous" or "Well-Known" then this would encompass people such as Bill Gates, Warren Buffet etc. Yet in the Forbes Celebrity List It appears that they are not present. Now excuse me if this is over opinionated but I am sure more people have heard of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, both who have changed 10,000s of peoples lives & donated massive amounts to charity as opposed to some other ponce that gets their life filmed & broadcast across one of these reality networks.