Which is to say that a trading protocol if it is truly time fractal idependent will apply equally well to a 5 year weekly chart and a 1 year daily chart. The latter for the purposes of data point equivalence, in this discussion will be assumed to have 260 trading days.
lj
temptrader
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I don't think he ever put his money on the line, and from someone who knows he's not a particularly good mathematician either - all he'll go down in history is for a discovery and nothing more. (and a few lesser results here and there)
You don't need to be an astronaut to do thought experiments about the nature of light. You can get results from the experimentalists. Perhaps Mandelbrot could stop making money writing books and put his money where his mouth is instead and put it to trading using his knowledge of fractals.
You don't need fractals at all - sorry to say. Those who know, know. Those who don't try everything that they think will fit, but obscure what's really going on.
I don't think he ever put his money on the line, and from someone who knows he's not a particularly good mathematician either - all he'll go down in history is for a discovery and nothing more Good enough for me.. (and a few lesser results here and there. Good enough for me.)
You don't need to be an astronaut to do thought experiments about the nature of light. I'm talking more about how Einstein's results facilitated the movement and tracking of astronauts in space. You can get results from the experimentalists. As I'm sure Einstein did and knew well that one bends theory to experiment not the other way around. Perhaps Mandelbrot could stop making money writing books and put his money where his mouth is instead and put it to trading using his knowledge of fractals. But den perhaps he don't give a toot about trading but rather likes to make the occasional discovery and den write about it. Who knows? Who cares? .
You don't need fractals at all - sorry to say I don't believe I ever said that one needs fractals to trade (I presume that's what you are talking about) but rather that a trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't.. Those who know, know. Those who don't try everything that they think will fit, but obscure what's really going on. Then there are those who think they know but don't and inflict the arrogance of their ignorance on those about them.
Vide supra.
lj
temptrader
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ljyoung said:
That is a trivial, mechanical problem - far removed from trading. Sorry.
ljyoung said:
yes, and the theory might get modified soon, but that's not the point.
ljyoung said:
Of course it matters. If trading were purely an academic exercise, then most academics would be millionaires. They are NOT, reason being there are other factors to consider if one is to be successful in trading.
One does not need even to think about fractals to trade profitably. It wasn't even around in Livermore's time. (alright so Weierstrass constructed a nowhere differentiable curve which is actually a fractal - but many people would not have known it at the time).ljyoung said:
"trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't" is NOT true, and the profitable traders will tell you so - but you won't listen to them, because most of them have been banned.
ljyoung said:
Please stop talking about yourself.
:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
I'm talking more about how Einstein's results facilitated the movement and tracking of astronauts in space.
That is a trivial, mechanical problem - far removed from trading. Sorry.
My original point was simply that discoveries in one field can be applied to fields other than the field in which they were discovered. A simple point from a simple man, if not a simpleton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
As I'm sure Einstein did and knew well that one bends theory to experiment not the other way around.
yes, and the theory might get modified soon, but that's not the point.
Yes, I know that but then you were the one who brought up, if I might use that expression, the nonsense in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
But den perhaps he don't give a toot about trading but rather likes to make the occasional discovery and den write about it. Who knows? Who cares?
Of course it matters. If trading were purely an academic exercise, then most academics would be millionaires. They are NOT, reason being there are other factors to consider if one is to be successful in trading.
What someone does with what they have discovered is up to them. I am sure that Mandelbrot would agree that there is more to trading than fractals but even if he didn’t , who cares? His discovery stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
I don't believe I ever said that one needs fractals to trade (I presume that's what you are talking about) but rather that a trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't.
One does not need even to think about fractals to trade profitably. It wasn't even around in Livermore's time. (alright so Weierstrass constructed a nowhere differentiable curve which is actually a fractal - but many people would not have known it at the time).
Let me rephrase what I said , by removing “needs” and inserting “need even think about”.
"trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't" is NOT true, [IYO, unt I don’t agree] and the profitable traders will tell you so - but you won't [it’s hard to do a ‘won’t’ if the profitable traders have been banned] listen to them, because most of them have been banned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
*Then there are those who think they know [that they know] but don't and inflict the arrogance of their ignorance [compounded with stupidity] on those about them.
Please stop talking about yourself. Pee Wee Herman, that master of the rejoinder, best dealt with tripe like this by saying " I know you are, but what am I (doing)?"
Allow me to rephrase the above* for purposes of clarity (vide supra).
At times, emoticons are useful for people who have difficulty adequately expressing themselves. One emoticon/deficit is the norm. The use of mutiple instances of the same emoticon can be seen in organic perseveration which is very frequently due to traumatic brain injury. The treatment in recalcitrant cases is a “Chuck I” and when bellicosity is added to the recalcitrance a “Ted I”. The strident, pompous tenor of your pronouncements suggests to me a pure PA kind o’ guy. PA with its attendent stops and slop can be remarkably profitable. However if you’re not a PA practitioner then please continue to keep your secret sauce protocol, secret, like most ‘edgers’ who have found the grail.
Originally Posted by ljyoung
I'm talking more about how Einstein's results facilitated the movement and tracking of astronauts in space.
That is a trivial, mechanical problem - far removed from trading. Sorry.
My original point was simply that discoveries in one field can be applied to fields other than the field in which they were discovered. A simple point from a simple man, if not a simpleton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
As I'm sure Einstein did and knew well that one bends theory to experiment not the other way around.
yes, and the theory might get modified soon, but that's not the point.
Yes, I know that but then you were the one who brought up, if I might use that expression, the nonsense in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
But den perhaps he don't give a toot about trading but rather likes to make the occasional discovery and den write about it. Who knows? Who cares?
Of course it matters. If trading were purely an academic exercise, then most academics would be millionaires. They are NOT, reason being there are other factors to consider if one is to be successful in trading.
What someone does with what they have discovered is up to them. I am sure that Mandelbrot would agree that there is more to trading than fractals but even if he didn’t , who cares? His discovery stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
I don't believe I ever said that one needs fractals to trade (I presume that's what you are talking about) but rather that a trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't.
One does not need even to think about fractals to trade profitably. It wasn't even around in Livermore's time. (alright so Weierstrass constructed a nowhere differentiable curve which is actually a fractal - but many people would not have known it at the time).
Let me rephrase what I said , by removing “needs” and inserting “need even think about”.
"trading protocol which is time fractal independent has more utility than one that doesn't" is NOT true, [IYO, unt I don’t agree] and the profitable traders will tell you so - but you won't [it’s hard to do a ‘won’t’ if the profitable traders have been banned] listen to them, because most of them have been banned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljyoung
*Then there are those who think they know [that they know] but don't and inflict the arrogance of their ignorance [compounded with stupidity] on those about them.
Please stop talking about yourself. Pee Wee Herman, that master of the rejoinder, best dealt with tripe like this by saying " I know you are, but what am I (doing)?"
Allow me to rephrase the above* for purposes of clarity (vide supra).
At times, emoticons are useful for people who have difficulty adequately expressing themselves. One emoticon/deficit is the norm. The use of mutiple instances of the same emoticon can be seen in organic perseveration which is very frequently due to traumatic brain injury. The treatment in recalcitrant cases is a “Chuck I” and when bellicosity is added to the recalcitrance a “Ted I”. The strident, pompous tenor of your pronouncements suggests to me a pure PA kind o’ guy. PA with its attendent stops and slop can be remarkably profitable. However if you’re not a PA practitioner then please continue to keep your secret sauce protocol, secret, like most ‘edgers’ who have found the grail.
temptrader
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ljyoung,
I don't wish to have a tedious, pointless discussion with you.
For those who want to know, even the real traders will tell you, less is more. You don't need to know about fractals. They are irrelevant. So don't worry about them, don't think about them. And it's one less thing to think about - which can only be a good thing by the way.
I don't wish to have a tedious, pointless discussion with you.
For those who want to know, even the real traders will tell you, less is more. You don't need to know about fractals. They are irrelevant. So don't worry about them, don't think about them. And it's one less thing to think about - which can only be a good thing by the way.
What we have here is a difference of opinion with respect to the relevance of multiple time frames in a trading protocol. One discussant says they are irrelevant while the other says they can be relevant. As for whether or not being aware of time fractals involves less than not being aware of them, I don't know. As always individual traders must make up their own minds and in that regard it seems proper that those who are new to the game be acquainted with the variables which can be part of a given trading method.
lj
temptrader
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No, it does not, you are just confusing them. If you bother to ask the REAL traders nicely they will tell you that they have never heard of using fractals. I'm not here to sell a book, or a course, or a seminar etc. . . . fractals are about as much use to traders as they are to group theorists.
Your condescension is REALLY more than a bit much and I welcome your continuing to use it as part of the justification for your premise. I'm not sure (REALLY) what the opening words in your post, "No, it does not ..." refer to. As for confusion-engendering palaver, PA people, by the very nature of the protocol they use, are among the most confusing traders to speak with because of the 'secret sauce' aspect to their methodology.
There is a high probability that we do not hang with the same group of traders, excuse me, I meant to say REAL traders. Which is to say that of course zere are more zan one type of trader, n'est ce pas? As I opined before, you sound like a probabilistic edger and so it is completely understandable, though not singularly so, that you would say what you say about time fractals. It's always nice to hear an opinion from the goy on the other side of the trade.
lj
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You don't have a clue - and it's GOOD that you don't have a clue.
New_trader's retort to you was spot on.
"probabilistic"? I hate probability theory (although I know a LOT about it).Tell me, do you have losing runs too?
You don't have a clue - and it's GOOD that you don't have a clue These are profound, powerful and obviously well thought out words based on years of experience on the wrong side of the trade..
New_trader's retort to you was spot on Well you know what they say about opinions - yours that is, not new_trader's..
"probabilistic"? I hate probability theory (although I know a LOT about it).Tell me, do you have losing runs too You mean like your losing runs? No, I'm sure I don't.?
It's good that you've returned to form tempy-baby. It's clear that attempting to converse without the use of visual aids was simply too much to handle. Your riposte has left me shattered.
I'm glad to hear that you know a LOT (why the caps?) about probability theory (and yes Virginia, probabilistic is a real word - a big word but a real one, but then maybe that wasn't what you were saying with your query). Perhaps you were saying that you don't use odds when trading your perceived edge. That would be too cool for words. As we both know then, one does not need odds to trade but in lieu of odds [Can one be an edger without using odds and stops and slop?] what would one use? Group theory perhaps? Intuition? Divine inspiration? What could it be?
lj
temptrader
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You see, you're not getting it are you?
Here we are, two individuals arguing, when the real purpose of the thread, and the thread starter, has contributed nothing, and seeks to confuse people more.
In fact, there is really no worth in this thread, apart from the comment that fractals are not needed. People viewing this thread want others to take responsibility for their thinking - ain't going to happen!
lj, you're an idiot . . . . a moron . . . etc . . . . don't let me put you off though.
You see, you're not getting it are you?
Here we are, two individuals arguing, when the real purpose of the thread, and the thread starter, has contributed nothing, and seeks to confuse people more.
In fact, there is really no worth in this thread, apart from the comment that fractals are not needed. People viewing this thread want others to take responsibility for their thinking - ain't going to happen!
lj, you're an idiot . . . . a moron . . . etc . . . . don't let me put you off though.
Ahh. Now with the cascade of ad hominems but only one pitcher. An improvement. Again, I said that fractals were not necessary to trade effectively depending on what type of protocol one uses, a simple statement which you just are not getting, nor will you ever. Who cares?
While some level of magical thinking may be practiced by some of the people reading the thread, I wouldn't say that all of them do this. And no you don't put me off. Poms like you are truly a dime a dozen. Predictably arrogant, horribly insecure and distinguished by the fact that they are singularly undistinguished.
TTFN,
lj
Hello DB, I agree with the above comment. What software do you use to track this information?
MainCycleV
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Volume does not tell you which way the price will go.
Higer volume means bigger chances and higher dispute between bull and bear
Higer volume means bigger chances and higher dispute between bull and bear
Slapshot
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Yes ,it was absolute rubbish ,but as long as he's happy !
MainCycleV
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OMG, you said what I posted was rubbish? Since you are a legendary member, I really want to know what you have done for these years. You wasted your days in stock investment. It is pathetic you still donot know what the volume tells after so many years. You may still be at superficial level, still think that volume is the key. You still donot know there are lots of manipulations in terms of volume to cheat these kinds of guys like you.
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