Very basic newbie questions

[EnlightenedJoe]

Assuming big money are hedge funds, most of them don't do that well. I don't think it matters who Walmart is in this analogy, trying to squeeze a parasitic profit out of their business is generally a bad idea and takes more effort than people can imaging. No need to take my word for it, go to the real Walmart, buy something and sell for a profit. See if it works. If this simple task can't be accomplished, there is little hope for luck in other markets.

People get confused and believe they can make profit from Walmart by looking at a chart.

 

[hhiusa]

Assuming big money are hedge funds, most of them don't do that well. I don't think it matters who Walmart is in this analogy, trying to squeeze a parasitic profit out of their business is generally a bad idea and takes more effort than people can imaging. No need to take my word for it, go to the real Walmart, buy something and sell for a profit. See if it works. If this simple task can't be accomplished, there is little hope for luck in other markets.

People get confused and believe they can make profit from Walmart by looking at a chart.

The joke's on you because Walmart is not a successful business model. They are closing more than 100 stores this year. Walmart only knows how to sell $**t to the ignorant. This sounds exactly like the vendors here.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Well market makers can move prices without using any money (or rather using very little). So I suspect your big money is something mythical. What's more, the big money could be Walmart itself. There would be no other entity than them who would be motivated to set the price.

The OP have no need to understand auction. He just need to buy something from Walmart and sell for a profit. If he succeeds, he would have attained something amazing and learnt the real meaning of the markets.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

The joke's on you because Walmart is not a successful business model. They are closing more than 100 stores this year. Walmart only knows how to sell $**t to the ignorant. This sounds exactly like the vendors here.

You seem a bit obsessed with the vendors. They are only trying to make a living, so whatever they do is quite understandable.

The Walmart analogy here has no requirement for them to be successful. Rather, someone wishing to be successful in the markets, should first show they are able to accomplish the simple task of making a profit by buying and selling from Walmart. It is a simple yet effective test for someone's ability to be profitable in markets generally.

 

[nopeda]

Since we have a similar interest (electronic music) I thought I would add my 2¢. There is a big difference between making music and being a musician. Anyone can buy the latest and greatest midi software, synthesizers etc. and by following all the tutorials on YouTube you could probably compose a song within a few weeks. The problem is it will sound exactly like every other boring and unoriginal song being composed by every 3rd moron who has done the same thing as you with the same software. The chances of you composing a smash hit or even earning a meagre living from your music is near zero, and my guess is you don’t have any expectations of making money from your music. However, you think things will be different when it comes to trading, right?

The video I mentioned shows the basics of entering paths for VSTi's in the DAW Reaper, and how to draw the notes in, and other basic things about how to use that particular DAW. It doesn't show you how to compose a song. That you have to figure for yourself. The things I've done have a lot more percussion than anything else I've heard, with long sections of tom features, timpani features, etc. I also blend acoustic instrument sounds with synthesizer sounds, and all of them are free VSTi's or free samples. For the marimba I took a free sample and trimmed it down to one note with Audacity, and then made a track of several octaves of it with Shortcircuit. Did similar to get toms and timpani, and chimes, bird chirps, roosters crowing, wood blocks and I forget what all else. The stuff I've done would never be a smash hit but then again it's not like anything a bunch of people are doing either. It might appeal to some people who are fond of percussion. The idea was mainly just to learn how to do it out of curiosity, and so far I haven't even "recorded" any of it to an mp3 or any format, just play the Reaper projects as they are, but I do need to learn how to do that and do it with completed projects.

I don't ever expect to make money with the music though if I had these things available when I was in my 20's or 30's it would certainly have been a priority to try. I was a percussion major in college and worked doing stage lighting for bands for over 25 years, which involves paying attention to music and music structure. If I'd had this system during those days with plenty of people around to bounce ideas off of and learn things from my chances of having some success would have been much! better than they are today. When I was a music major the synclavier had only just been released and was hugely expensive, and there were no easy PC based programs like are available today.

As for investing if I could make enough money to pay for beer I'd feel very satisfied with that, and if I could go on to make enough to pay the rent, or instead not pay for either but just put some money back for when I can't work any more, that's as much as I hope to get. And if it doesn't go like that then the goal will be not to lose too much if I eventually try.

 

[nopeda]

Well market makers can move prices without using any money (or rather using very little). So I suspect your big money is something mythical. What's more, the big money could be Walmart itself. There would be no other entity than them who would be motivated to set the price.

The OP have no need to understand auction. He just need to buy something from Walmart and sell for a profit. If he succeeds, he would have attained something amazing and learnt the real meaning of the markets.

You suggested it to me, so I'm wondering how it's working out for you. And since that's the ONLY thing you suggested to me it must be the best thing you feel you could suggest, or you'd suggest something better. Right? Or are you suggesting something you think is a bad idea? If that's the case, how do you persuade yourself to feel that it makes you superior not only to me, but to the other people who have actually tried to help?

 

[nopeda]

Do not pay for anything. You do not need to buy books. Anything that is in those books or courses can be found online for free. There is no substitute for hard work. I would especially avoid people doing any tutorials. Even though Google will say that there are hundreds of thousands of hits, in fact, very few of them will be relevant. It should become pretty clear when you click the link whether or not it is relevant fairly quickly. This is not something you learn overnight. You will have to do some research for a while.

stockcharts.com is a good place to learn about technical analysis. They explain with examples what each indicator and oscillator does. There are several websites besides google finance and yahoo that provide historical data for backtesting.

I came to these forums trying to find the good free stuff and avoid trying to sift through hundreds of thousands of bulshts. I looked at stockcharts and will go back again and see if I can learn from there. I've known about Bigcharts for years and can bring up different symbols and types of charts. Tomorrow is a day off for me and I'm going to try going to the public library and see about finding another book that explains things from the ground up.

 

[timsk]

I came to these forums trying to find the good free stuff and avoid trying to sift through hundreds of thousands of bulshts. I looked at stockcharts and will go back again and see if I can learn from there. I've known about Bigcharts for years and can bring up different symbols and types of charts. Tomorrow is a day off for me and I'm going to try going to the public library and see about finding another book that explains things from the ground up.

Hi nopeda,
Welcome to T2W.

Your desire to find a source of information that outlines the basics from the ground up is a common cry voiced by many new members over the years. T2W has tried to address this with various Stickies, FAQs, Articles and, of course, the forums themselves. In spite of the wealth of free information here and elsewhere, it seems that what newbies really want is a single 'one stop shop' to save them from dipping in and out here, there and everywhere. We've attempted to address this problem with a unique book that does exactly this. All being well, it will be available right here on T2W within the next month or so. So, be patient and watch this space!
Tim.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

You suggested it to me, so I'm wondering how it's working out for you. And since that's the ONLY thing you suggested to me it must be the best thing you feel you could suggest, or you'd suggest something better. Right? Or are you suggesting something you think is a bad idea? If that's the case, how do you persuade yourself to feel that it makes you superior not only to me, but to the other people who have actually tried to help?

I was trying to help you. I was explaining that Walmart is like any market. If you can make profit from Walmart, you can make profit from any market. Walmart is a market that everyone is familiar with and understands. This is why I mentioned it.

 

[Charlton]

Question everything

I came to these forums trying to find the good free stuff and avoid trying to sift through hundreds of thousands of bulshts. I looked at stockcharts and will go back again and see if I can learn from there. I've known about Bigcharts for years and can bring up different symbols and types of charts. Tomorrow is a day off for me and I'm going to try going to the public library and see about finding another book that explains things from the ground up.

As others have said, there is plenty of free stuff available on the internet.

However if you just want a basic book to get you started and from which you can develop your own research further, how about the (relatively inexpensive) "Dummies" series e.g. "Trading for dummies"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EFB44K2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Once you have a grasp of the basic terminology and start to explore further, use the following approach with everything:

- Observe
- Analyse
- Question
- Learn
- Develop a strategy

So if you are looking a particular vendor site you might observe what it presents and how it presents the information e.g. factually, using pictures of fast cars, taking a long time to not say a lot. You then analyse it - do the facts make logical sense, am I feeling some emotion e.g. excitement. You then question it - does this look like a useful site, what can I take from it, are they trying to sell me something, is it too good to be trued. Now learn from it - what have I learnt positive or negative. Finally consider how does it affect my trading (and learning) strategy - does it add anything new to it, does it show me what to drop from a strategy, does it make me more able to distinguish the useful from the trash.

If you are looking at a particular chart, apply the same techniques. Observe the chart (preferably in real time) - where are the lines or candles going, how fast is it changing, how does it compare to previous periods, how does a 1 min chart compare to 1 hr chart etc. Analyse what your observations are telling you - is the market trending, in consolidation, erratic, does it indicate much activity, does it change with time of day. Now question it - does the chart tell the truth, are there players who are trying to trick people into buying or selling only to reverse the outlook a few seconds later. Learn from your observation and analysis- what has this taught me about this particular pattern on the chart - is it trustworthy, what conditions make it more or less reliable. Develop and refine your strategy based on all this - what can I add to my strategy to make it more profitable, less risky etc.

All this will take time, but as long as you remember to question everything and take nothing at face value, you can make progress.

 

[nopeda]

I was trying to help you. I was explaining that Walmart is like any market. If you can make profit from Walmart, you can make profit from any market. Walmart is a market that everyone is familiar with and understands. This is why I mentioned it.

Just from the ignorant position of my "understanding" of it I'd have thought November would have been a good time to buy, right before Christmas the following month. It looks like that would have worked to some extent, though it didn't go up as high in December as I'd thought it might. But, that's not the sort of thing you were suggesting.

 

[nopeda]

Hi nopeda,
Welcome to T2W.

Your desire to find a source of information that outlines the basics from the ground up is a common cry voiced by many new members over the years. T2W has tried to address this with various Stickies, FAQs, Articles and, of course, the forums themselves. In spite of the wealth of free information here and elsewhere, it seems that what newbies really want is a single 'one stop shop' to save them from dipping in and out here, there and everywhere. We've attempted to address this problem with a unique book that does exactly this. All being well, it will be available right here on T2W within the next month or so. So, be patient and watch this space!
Tim.

Thank you Tim, that sounds great! I look forward to it.

 

[nopeda]

As others have said, there is plenty of free stuff available on the internet.

However if you just want a basic book to get you started and from which you can develop your own research further, how about the (relatively inexpensive) "Dummies" series e.g. "Trading for dummies"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EFB44K2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Once you have a grasp of the basic terminology and start to explore further, use the following approach with everything:

- Observe
- Analyse
- Question
- Learn
- Develop a strategy
. . .

Thank you for the good advice! I'll keep that method in mind in my struggles to
figure things out. Also will see if the library has the "Trading for Dummies" available.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Just from the ignorant position of my "understanding" of it I'd have thought November would have been a good time to buy, right before Christmas the following month. It looks like that would have worked to some extent, though it didn't go up as high in December as I'd thought it might. But, that's not the sort of thing you were suggesting.

Quite right. I was not suggesting gambling on the Walmart stock. I was suggesting the Walmart shop is a market where you can go buy something and then hope you can sell it for a profit. All markets work like that. But if you find it impossible to make a profit that way, then the result for other markets will be the same. Makes no different if the market is a stock market, a forex market, or a corner shop market. Each of these markets is run by someone(s) hard working doing his best to make the business work. He would not be doing his job properly and will go bankrupt if he gives away his money to strangers who come in to the shop waving about some candle stick charts.

 

[hhiusa]

Quite right. I was not suggesting gambling on the Walmart stock. I was suggesting the Walmart shop is a market where you can go buy something and then hope you can sell it for a profit. All markets work like that. But if you find it impossible to make a profit that way, then the result for other markets will be the same. Makes no different if the market is a stock market, a forex market, or a corner shop market. Each of these markets is run by someone(s) hard working doing his best to make the business work. He would not be doing his job properly and will go bankrupt if he gives away his money to strangers who come in to the shop waving about some candle stick charts.

For someone who told me that I was obsessed with vendors, you certainly are obsessed with Walmart.

 

[nopeda]

Quite right. I was not suggesting gambling on the Walmart stock. I was suggesting the Walmart shop is a market where you can go buy something and then hope you can sell it for a profit. All markets work like that. But if you find it impossible to make a profit that way, then the result for other markets will be the same. Makes no different if the market is a stock market, a forex market, or a corner shop market.

So what did you buy at Walmart and sell for a profit? How long did you continue doing that before you felt ready to try doing it with some other sort of market, or didn't you ever move on to something else and you're just here to discourage everyone else from ever trying? It must be one or the other, so which is it?

 

[nopeda]

For someone who told me that I was obsessed with vendors, you certainly are obsessed with Walmart.

To me it seems he's come here to give people terrible suggestions, but if he actually learned and benefited from what he suggests in this thread I'm interested in exactly how he went about it and why it was of any value. So far from my position it doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with what I'm trying to learn about.

 

[hhiusa]

To me it seems he's come here to give people terrible suggestions, but if he actually learned and benefited from what he suggests in this thread I'm interested in exactly how he went about it and why it was of any value. So far from my position it doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with what I'm trying to learn about.

When I said do not buy books, I was referring to the books where people talk about their methods they used to make money. Those are the "buy my book and see how I made money and make me richer through book sales" books. Any book with quality information will contain information that can be found on the web.

You said that you were going to the library. Looking through books at the library seems more time consuming than sifting through Google searches. There is not some be-all-end-all source that master traders learned from. Anyone can learn all they need to know about the market by themselves, which is the way that I would recommend you do it. It is not a field like medicine, which requires a lot of book reading and schooling. Investing is mostly an experiential business.

Many traders get too bogged down in specific definitions. People banter about scalp trading, daytrading and swing trading. Some people say that they are completely unrelated. The only real difference is the length and breadth of their trades. If you are new to trading, I would suggest starting with swing trading, especially since you are in the US. To me, scalp trading is for those that have so little confidence in their trades that they exit at the slightest sign of trouble. They are only seeking to make fractions of a percent per trade. It is too much effort for too little gain per trade.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

So what did you buy at Walmart and sell for a profit? How long did you continue doing that before you felt ready to try doing it with some other sort of market, or didn't you ever move on to something else and you're just here to discourage everyone else from ever trying? It must be one or the other, so which is it?

I never bought and sold anything from Walmart. I was not fortunate enough to have someone explain to me how the market worked. It was a case of cold turkey for me.

 

[nopeda]

Many traders get too bogged down in specific definitions. People banter about scalp trading, daytrading and swing trading. Some people say that they are completely unrelated. The only real difference is the length and breadth of their trades. If you are new to trading, I would suggest starting with swing trading, especially since you are in the US. To me, scalp trading is for those that have so little confidence in their trades that they exit at the slightest sign of trouble. They are only seeking to make fractions of a percent per trade. It is too much effort for too little gain per trade.

Until yesterday I didn't know that day trading was making trades that are restricted to just one day, and had never heard the term swing trading before. It was through reading the beginning of a pdf of "Day Trading for Dummies" that I learned about both those things. To so restrict yourself as day trading does makes no good sense from my ignorant position, and I agree with you that swing trading would be better for me to attempt. There are lots of ideas out there, and learning words that define ideas is a very significant aspect for me. I see people use terms all the time and have no idea what they mean, but if I understood what ideas they represent then I would have at least an idea what they mean. Some books do a good job of relating terms to ideas so you know what they mean and how to represent the ideas with just a couple of words, and some books do well at explaining the ideas themselves and also ways to make use of them. That's what I'm trying to find now, though I was hoping to have had a number of online sources suggested by this time. The "Dummies" books are the specific things that have been suggested most, so I ordered "Investing Online" and "Swing Trading". Whether they get me where I want to be or not, at least they'll present more than I know now.