vendor claims he made 31,157 pips last year

[The Leopard]

Now that's what I call genius

So what method of pip counting does Phil use?

No idea.

The whole issue of reporting returns in pips is a bad one in my opinion. It says nothing on its own and is fraught with obvious problems:

1. 1000 pips on cable? That's a lot of pips. 1000 pips on USD/ZAR - that's an average 15 minutes movement.

2. How many lots? 10 pips on 1 lot, so what. 10 pips on a hundred lot, BSD.

3. The method of counting - as you know, there are a lot of ways of doing this .

4. Best of all (and I do love this one), some people just count total pips, lumped in together. Even things that don't have pips. There's an active thread on here at the moment where a couple of people are reporting the pips they get each day. On the euro, indices, oil, gold, all just mixed up together .

I measure my returns thusly:

I risk X% of my account (or as near as) every trade. I gain or lose X%. I also keep a note of the cash value of what I gain or lose. Call me crazy if you like, but that's kind of important to me. I find that most shops don't take pips or ticks .

 

[counter_violent]

No idea.

The whole issue of reporting returns in pips is a bad one in my opinion. It says nothing on its own and is fraught with obvious problems:

1. 1000 pips on cable? That's a lot of pips. 1000 pips on USD/ZAR - that's an average 15 minutes movement.

2. How many lots? 10 pips on 1 lot, so what. 10 pips on a hundred lot, BSD.

3. The method of counting - as you know, there are a lot of ways of doing this .

4. Best of all (and I do love this one), some people just count total pips, lumped in together. Even things that don't have pips. There's an active thread on here at the moment where a couple of people are reporting the pips they get each day. On the euro, indices, oil, gold, all just mixed up together .

I measure my returns thusly:

I risk X% of my account (or as near as) every trade. I gain or lose X%. I also keep a note of the cash value of what I gain or lose. Call me crazy if you like, but that's kind of important to me. I find that most shops don't take pips or ticks .

It's easier just to post the statement aint it !

I couldn't be bothered with all the fannying about personally.

 

[The Leopard]

It's easier just to post the statement aint it !

I couldn't be bothered with all the fannying about personally.

True .

Whilst I'm going on about monster pip counts, I think it is very much a newbie thing. They seem to think that vast numbers of pips is a good thing to aim for, when in practice the opposite is true. Most would be far better off trying to take a small number of good trades in one or two liquid instruments, and increase size.

Who would be impressed by 2 points a day? Nobody, of course. 2 points? Waste of time!

But just for fun, assume someone concentrated on trading ES, and managed (in whatever fashion) to net 2 points a day. In fact, scrap that. Let's say 1 point per day, on average.

I point is 50 bucks. The liquidity in ES is easily able to accommodate 100 contracts. If someone gets good at trading ES, builds up their account and nets on average 1 point a day, that's $5000. Per day. Or to put it another way, $1.25 million a year, assuming 250 trading days.

Assume they get REALLY good, and can net 2 points a day on average (something no self-respecting vendor or newbie would even get out of bed for). That's a measly $2.5 million a year. On two points a day. 500 points for the whole year. Two and half million bucks.

So someone who's been a successful trader for many years who is getting thousands of pips a month on even more liquid instruments like EURUSD is going to be making...?

No wonder they have to charge for their services.

 

[DionysusToast]

Hey

In true lulzy style this vendor claims he made 31157 pips last calender year. That's right ladies & gentleman if he was actually trading at £10 per pip he would be earning £300k+ per annum tax free yet he charges £145 per month to clueless noobs to 'educate' them.

its all at Trading Strategies. | A Forex Education Community

see the performance chart from his website.

when will this industry be regulated so these clowns can stop preying on people.

Is there anything that actually needs regulating?

Or rather, isn't regulation already there?

Look - Marks & Spencers aren't allowed to mark an item on sale unless it has been on the peg at the pre-sale price for a certain number of days.

So, whilst there might not be an FSA law broken with these claims (presuming they are bogus), then isn't there a regular consumer law being broken?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Is there anything that actually needs regulating?

Or rather, isn't regulation already there?

Look - Marks & Spencers aren't allowed to mark an item on sale unless it has been on the peg at the pre-sale price for a certain number of days.

So, whilst there might not be an FSA law broken with these claims (presuming they are bogus), then isn't there a regular consumer law being broken?

probably not as its all hyperthetical results

 

[DionysusToast]

probably not as its all hyperthetical results

Hmmmm..

Well then why can't Marks & Spencers put on their "70% off" ticket a little disclaimer that the full price was hypothetical.

I figure it's simply a matter of time before someone takes one of these guys to court and nails them for bull****ting.

 

[DionysusToast]

True .

Whilst I'm going on about monster pip counts, I think it is very much a newbie thing. They seem to think that vast numbers of pips is a good thing to aim for, when in practice the opposite is true. Most would be far better off trying to take a small number of good trades in one or two liquid instruments, and increase size.

Who would be impressed by 2 points a day? Nobody, of course. 2 points? Waste of time!

But just for fun, assume someone concentrated on trading ES, and managed (in whatever fashion) to net 2 points a day. In fact, scrap that. Let's say 1 point per day, on average.

I point is 50 bucks. The liquidity in ES is easily able to accommodate 100 contracts. If someone gets good at trading ES, builds up their account and nets on average 1 point a day, that's $5000. Per day. Or to put it another way, $1.25 million a year, assuming 250 trading days.

Assume they get REALLY good, and can net 2 points a day on average (something no self-respecting vendor or newbie would even get out of bed for). That's a measly $2.5 million a year. On two points a day. 500 points for the whole year. Two and half million bucks.

So someone who's been a successful trader for many years who is getting thousands of pips a month on even more liquid instruments like EURUSD is going to be making...?

No wonder they have to charge for their services.

I get people asking me what to go for quite often. This is what I tell people to gun for initially... those 2 points.

The issue is that small accounts need large targets, or so people think. These are the same people that are under the impression they can live of a $5k account.

I tell people to forget about their account size, try to pull out a few points a day.
If they can pull out 20 or more points a month consistently, then they can go to a prop shop or a rich uncle with the records.

2 points on the ES isn't a lofty target, 5 point moves happen less often (and there's no saying you will catch the whole move) and 10 point moves even less often. There's nothing more frustrating than holding out for a big move and seeing price come back to where you got in.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

well said. if you have any sort of decent record getting 20:1 BP from a prop shop is not a problem.

I get people asking me what to go for quite often. This is what I tell people to gun for initially... those 2 points.

The issue is that small accounts need large targets, or so people think. These are the same people that are under the impression they can live of a $5k account.

I tell people to forget about their account size, try to pull out a few points a day.
If they can pull out 20 or more points a month consistently, then they can go to a prop shop or a rich uncle with the records.

2 points on the ES isn't a lofty target, 5 point moves happen less often (and there's no saying you will catch the whole move) and 10 point moves even less often. There's nothing more frustrating than holding out for a big move and seeing price come back to where you got in.

 

[pboyles]

Is there anything that actually needs regulating?

Or rather, isn't regulation already there?

Look - Marks & Spencers aren't allowed to mark an item on sale unless it has been on the peg at the pre-sale price for a certain number of days.

So, whilst there might not be an FSA law broken with these claims (presuming they are bogus), then isn't there a regular consumer law being broken?

The laws are already in place, the problem is nobody can be bothered to do anything about it. The most the ASA will do is tell them to remove the misleading advert and not use it again.

 

[DionysusToast]

The laws are already in place, the problem is nobody can be bothered to do anything about it. The most the ASA will do is tell them to remove the misleading advert and not use it again.

Where's the 'report' button?

 

[pboyles]

Where's the 'report' button?

Good luck with it, you'll be the one doing all the work

How to complain - Advertising Standards Authority

 

[kwickwool]

Anyone who falls for these types of scams after paying the money should get an email back saying

"Upon receipt of payment for the trading system that will make you a millionaire you have shown beyond any remediable action that you are not cut out for trading and although you have been scammed here it has probably saved you a lot more in the long run. Please withdraw all funds and close all trading accounts you have and concentrate on other projects"

 

[deebee1]

has anyone actually used his services...??? would be interesting if someone could write a review on it...

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

has anyone actually used his services...??? would be interesting if someone could write a review on it...

Why do you need a review? At £10 per pip you will be up £25k in one month at a rate of 31157 pips per year. That will easily cover the sub right?

They just released the Q1 2012 results = 7320 pips.

 

[tony1979]

Systematic overnight breakout systems do not work, just try it you will get stopped out time and time again. Playing a breakout of a range in a systematic way is at best naive and at worst stupid.

Try telling that to Tony Crabel....and, you're wrong with that statement by the way.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

has anyone actually used his services...??? would be interesting if someone could write a review on it...

i think were all in shock as to who this is to bother writing a review. I really didnt think he would go that low,but then again I should have known better

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Try telling that to Tony Crabel....and, you're wrong with that statement by the way.

A statement would be nice.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Try telling that to Tony Crabel....and, you're wrong with that statement by the way.

Can you elaborate. Im sure traders can make a good living using his techniques,but is it not just the same as any other method in the sense that its just an entrypoint number

 

[tony1979]

Can you elaborate. Im sure traders can make a good living using his techniques,but is it not just the same as any other method in the sense that its just an entrypoint number

The majority of Crabel's methods are based on some form of volatility breakout. his original methods have a relatively small edge, yet they're also incredibly robust. However, with a few simple changes to them it's possible to multiply that edge to a very respectable number. These types of methods are designed to capture repeating behavioural characteristics of markets. Also, If you don't know which participants you're profiting from, you likely have no edge in the first place. "Entrypoint numbers" are just that, numbers. People need to actually study the markets, in order to identify and then trade a concept, not just blindly picking variations of range breakouts. The other thing with volatility breakouts, is that most can't handle the way you get paid using them, which is another subject in itself. 99% of people on these boards want a set £ amount per day, per week, etc. That's not a reality for methods that are truly robust.

 

[Hoggums]

31,157 pips is amateur. If you're going to make bold claims then I say reach for the sky...

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex-discussion/35867-how-good-forex-automoney.html