Vantage Point Software

vantagepoint is sold on the hype that it "predicts" market turns with allegedly "80% accuracy" (impossible to validate their numbers)... hardly lives up to its claim if "the existing trend has been in place for at least 12 trading days".

Why couldnt a normal moving average be used instead, as VP's "predicted" moving average only seems to pick turns a day or two ahead of a standard MA anyways, with the additional disadvantage of more false "chop" signals.

I'm glad you at least have done well from their stuff, I personally found it to be crap and am of the opinion that Market Technologies, Profit Taker, Vantagepoint et al are peddling snake oil dreams through *very* misleading advertising.

It most certainly does not do what it says on the box.
 
My 12 day rule is in place for two reasons:

1. Reduces (but obviously cannot totally eliminate) the effect of a "choppy" period for the index/commodity.

2. Using Vantagepoint you "miss" the initial profit from a change of direction. eg (1). VP today shows a change of trend direction (up) for the DOW although it has already made gains. My strategy on Monday or Tuesday will be to buy the DOW at around the 10120 level (if possible). eg (2) Dec Coffeee also changed trend direction today (down) although it has peaked this time at about 8500 I will attempt to sell in the 8000 - 8100 region. VP also shows Soya and Cotton about to "bottom" out but needs another two trading sessions to confirm.

See if VP is right on any the above scenarios and then perhaps reaccess VP using various stratagies.
I accept that you could probably reach the same conclusions using charts freely available elsewhere (but VP "predicts" two days ahead, so you have the edge over other systems) but VP has enabled me to focus on a trading strategy that is right 80% or more of the time and has easily realised profits to pay for VP (and more) in the three months I have used it.

The advice I have received from other users is to only trade when the PTMDiff figure has moved consistently in the same direction for four trading sessions and by back tracking on various commodities/financials I can see that if you follow that (and only that!) you would very nicely with VP - I do!
 
Oldalbanian said:
I have been using Vantagepoint for several months and find it certainly pays foir itself if you follow a few simple rules I have learned by experience.

1. Ignore the predicted high and low figures - widely off the mark.

2. Accept the trend change of direction as gospel if the following criteria are met.
a. The existing trend has been in place fopr at least 12 trading days.
b. The PTMdiff figure has moved consistently for four sessions in the same direction.

3. It does not work for FOREX or "day trading".

4. For the DJIA and commodities it is at least 80% following the above rules

So in other words you paid several thousand dollars to see on a chart what anyone else can see by scanning through charts with a moving averages placed on them.

I bought this software as well and thankyou Vantagepoint as I got my money back it is absolutely crap imo ! I fully agree with MartinD's comments it is the worst software I have ever used.
 
Schoe

Suit yourself!
I bought into coffee at 7250 based on VP at sold at 8320 at £5 a point. Short again tomorrow.
I bought the DOW at 9965 and sold at 10280 , Long again tomorrow all at £10 a point
Short position in Soya at 590 (£40 a point) and Cotton at 5400 (£5 a point) all in the money and still open and based on VP.
Long in Silver at 635 at £50 a point still open
Maybe you can trawl through the charts for free but I would ra\ther pay $4000 to let someone do it for me and it has paid off. Don't wish to be unkind but maybe you just don't know how to use the software!
 
Last edited:
I have opened a new thread:

Vantagepoint - OldAlbanian Trades

I will post on a daily basis as I trade - good and bad so you can judge for yourselves whether VP works or not
 
Oldalbanian said:
Schoe

Suit yourself!
I bought into coffee at 7250 based on VP at sold at 8320 at £5 a point. Short again tomorrow.
I bought the DOW at 9965 and sold at 10280 , short at the same level and long again tomorrow all at £10 a point
Short position in Soya at 590 (£40 a point) and Cotton at 5400 (£5 a point) all in the money and still open and based on VP.
Long in Silver at 635 at £50 a point still open
Maybe you can trawl through the charts for free but I would ra\ther pay $4000 to let someone do it for me and it has paid off. Don't wish to be unkind but maybe you just don't know how to use the software!

Wow thats great it must be fantastic to make loads of money from watching moving average crossovers. You are not being unkind I would expect you to try to entice people to buy this software which you probably get commission for or are you the developer?

Thankfully I have learnt that trading aint that easy to buy off the shelf software which will make you money consistently. What you need to do is learn to trade by reading price action with volume and simple chart patterns with money management.But most people don't want to do this as it involves work and effort and practice. It took me time to realise that and to stop looking for the Holy Grail, but now I have and am well my way to being a very successful trader.
 
I do not work for Market Technology and I am not on commission.
I only daytrade Forex (using IFR Market Watch to suggest trades using their technical analysis - they are right more often than they aer wrong!) - but I do not use VP for Forex , and a limited range of commodities/indices for long/medium term positions using VP ie DOW, 5 Yr T note, Wheat, Corn, Soya, Silver, Gold, Light Crude, Heating Oil, Coffee, Cotton.
I will post my VP trades on the other thread on the day I make them so I can't make them up!
Take my word (or not!) for the current open positions.
I wouldn't touch individual equities with a barge pole!
 
Just bought it!!

I wish I would have read some of these posts before but am convinced now to return it before even opening it. Oldalbanian, why haven't you posted for a few days?
 
The predicted Hi/lows are no better than pivot points. It does give some reassurance when the predicted hi/lows correlate with pivots. The Neural Index is fairly useful but I think it is probably just derived the direction of a moving average.

I had something very interesting happen last night. I opened VP and it was giving me the readings for today before I even did a Data Update... Note sure why, but once I did the Data Update it gave me the same predictions!!! So Who knows, im not a computer programmer so it seems weird to me.

There is absolutely NO Substitute for experience and understanding of market action, money management and most importantly your own Psychology. Vantage POint is simply something I glance at in the evenings, and I just quickly look at the Neural Index. This is akin to only going long or short if markets are above/below the 50SMA... So not secrets here. It does give me a slight boost in confidence if it confirming my own analysis, but only a slight boost. I don't think it's worth $3500. Maybe $250? I imagine Market Technologies makes a flippin killing off of this software. Also the two books that come with it are sub par at best. I got very little out of them on how to analyze the market using Intermarket Analysis other than to follow the software.

On another note Intermarket Analysis DOES Work and is very worth it to look into. Save your $3500, get a mini account, and use proper risk management risking no more than 2% a trade and you will have gained more experience and understanding if you lose it all then slapping it on the table for the Market Technologies team to get rich off of.

I used to truly think there was something to Vantage Point but until I go to their head office and they show me exactly how it works and I find that there's something ACTUALLY to it, I say it's not worth the $3500.
 
The predicted Hi/lows are no better than pivot points. It does give some reassurance when the predicted hi/lows correlate with pivots. The Neural Index is fairly useful but I think it is probably just derived the direction of a moving average.

I had something very interesting happen last night. I opened VP and it was giving me the readings for today before I even did a Data Update... Note sure why, but once I did the Data Update it gave me the same predictions!!! So Who knows, im not a computer programmer so it seems weird to me.

There is absolutely NO Substitute for experience and understanding of market action, money management and most importantly your own Psychology. Vantage POint is simply something I glance at in the evenings, and I just quickly look at the Neural Index. This is akin to only going long or short if markets are above/below the 50SMA... So not secrets here. It does give me a slight boost in confidence if it confirming my own analysis, but only a slight boost. I don't think it's worth $3500. Maybe $250? I imagine Market Technologies makes a flippin killing off of this software. Also the two books that come with it are sub par at best. I got very little out of them on how to analyze the market using Intermarket Analysis other than to follow the software.

On another note Intermarket Analysis DOES Work and is very worth it to look into. Save your $3500, get a mini account, and use proper risk management risking no more than 2% a trade and you will have gained more experience and understanding if you lose it all then slapping it on the table for the Market Technologies team to get rich off of.

I used to truly think there was something to Vantage Point but until I go to their head office and they show me exactly how it works and I find that there's something ACTUALLY to it, I say it's not worth the $3500.

MABenn,

I read elsewhere that you can 'turn off' the intermarket analysis and get the same results. Its also possible that if the data wasnt ready when you did your download that you actually got yesterdays 'results' again instead of todays. Are you sure that isnt what happened?

By the way the NI is just an average of previous days prices, I was able to almost completely replicate the NI using excel and with NO reference to other markets. So even if it were of use youre paying 3k for something you could do on a calculator.

Peter
 
Download and try for yourself.
here is keygen for 7.0 version

RapidShare: Easy Filehosting



MABenn,

I read elsewhere that you can 'turn off' the intermarket analysis and get the same results. Its also possible that if the data wasnt ready when you did your download that you actually got yesterdays 'results' again instead of todays. Are you sure that isnt what happened?

By the way the NI is just an average of previous days prices, I was able to almost completely replicate the NI using excel and with NO reference to other markets. So even if it were of use youre paying 3k for something you could do on a calculator.

Peter
 
Schoe

Suit yourself!
I bought into coffee at 7250 based on VP at sold at 8320 at £5 a point. Short again tomorrow.
I bought the DOW at 9965 and sold at 10280 , Long again tomorrow all at £10 a point
Short position in Soya at 590 (£40 a point) and Cotton at 5400 (£5 a point) all in the money and still open and based on VP.
Long in Silver at 635 at £50 a point still open
Maybe you can trawl through the charts for free but I would ra\ther pay $4000 to let someone do it for me and it has paid off. Don't wish to be unkind but maybe you just don't know how to use the software!

Hi Oldbanian.
I live in the U.K. and would like to talk if that's possible? My email: [email protected]
Cheers, Alex.:)
 
Hi

I recently spent some time analysing VantagePoint's "Predictive Neural Index" indicator and thought I'd share the results with you. As you will see, although the specific claims the company makes appear to be accurate, as far as I can tell it's still completely worthless. The following text is a copy of an email I sent to the company on 21st May 2012.

===

I've taken a look at the analyses by Dr Meyer and Dr Warnock, and also of those by Dr Harris and Dr Arcuri. Although their tests were technically accurate in terms of their methods and conclusions, I'm afraid I cannot see any evidence that VantagePoint's Predictive Neural Index (PNI) indicator is capable of providing any statistically-significant advantage, nor in fact that it has any predictive abilities beyond those available with simple, traditional (and free) indicators. Furthermore, I believe I can demonstrate conclusively that it does not –*at least with the sample data you provided.

The PNI indicator is described as a prediction of whether the 3-day simple moving average (SMA) of the typical price will be higher or lower in 2 days time. As I'm sure you know, a 3-day SMA in 2 days time will still use today's data for one third of its calculation. Also, a 3-day SMA lags the price by 1.5 days, so the prediction is only really for half a day in the future. Furthermore, by using the typical price (ie the average of the high, low and closing prices), the PNI does not even provide a directional forecast that you could reasonably expect to trade, since it only applies to the range of the price, not the closing price.

I compared the results from the PNI with some very simple predictions of my own based on the current slope of a moving average over various periods and using several different averaging methods. In each of these tests, I predicted a rise in the 3-day SMA of the typical price in 2 days time (equivalent to a PNI of 1) where the slope of the moving average was positive, and a fall (equivalent to a PNI of 0) where the slope was negative. The full results are included in the attached spreadsheet.

For the sample data that you supplied, from June 2010 to May 2012, the PNI indicator achieved 78.1% accuracy for both the S&P 500 and the GBPUSD. Over the same period, the slope of a 3-day exponential moving average of the closing price, for example, produced an accuracy of 78.2% for the S&P 500 and 77.6% for the GBPUSD. With a 2-day exponential moving average, the accuracy for the S&P 500 increased to over 80%, while still achieving an accuracy of 76.4% for the GBPUSD. On average, these results have an accuracy of 78.1% – identical to those achieved by VantagePoint's PNI indicator.

I accept it is possible that the PNI may perform better if I were to test it over a wider range of markets (and I would be happy to do so if you were to provide the additional data). However, given my understanding of the mathematics involved – and given that your own published results state very similar accuracies –*I would be very surprised if this were the case. I'm also surprised that the mathematicians and scientists who have verified your results have apparently failed to spot these facts.

If you believe I have made some error in my calculations, or have some other information you can provide that might change my opinion of VantagePoint, I would be very interested to hear it. As a courtesy, I will wait until Saturday 26th May before sharing these results via my blog, or any other website, in order to give you sufficient time to respond.

Marcus Don
Bionic Trader - Creating a probability-based trading system
 
hi

i was wondering whether you could share your experience about VP. ts2252 at yahoo dot com
 
Pure and Simple Garbage!

Does anybody know anything about the software from Vantage Point (besides being expensive). I know it is to do with inter-market analysis, i just wanted to know if anyone uses it or how useful it is and if it is worth that much.

I have tried it repeatedly using most of their modules. To make a long story short, the software does NOT predict market movement accurately. It could not predict if the sun is coming up tomorrow morning. I beg you please don't waste your money like I did. IT DOES NOT WORK!!! Whenever you mention to them that a particular security did not move as predicted, all you will hear is excuses. I am so angry with myself that I let them dupe me into buying extra modules with promises of the wealth of Midas. Just junk. Use a coin toss, you'll come out way ahead!
BR,
BG47
 
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