I tried it too after paying a fortune for two index modules. It is supposed to predict the next days high and low but is too far off with the accuracy to be of any use. It is only any good at telling you the trend which was no better than a moving average. I got my money back after being advised to report them to the authorites in America.
In my opinion it is useless.
In my opinion it is useless.
Max,
It uses data from 9 inter-related markets (e.g. for NASDAQ100 it uses S&P500, S&P100, DJIA, DJUA, US dollar index, 10 yr Treasury Notes, Light Crude Oil, CRB Index & NYSE Composite Index) to try to predict the trend of: (1) a 5 day moving average 2 days into the future and (2) a 10 day moving average 4 days into the future. If the predicted MA crosses the actual MA, then you consider going long or short, as appropriate. By using predicted MAs the system claims to overcome the disadvantage of other MA crossover signals - that they lag price movement.
The system also produces: (3) a neural index with a value of either 0 or 1 (short or long), based on a comparison of a predicted & actual 3 day MAs, and (4) projected highs & lows for the next trading day as low risk entry/exit points.
Vantage Point only provide the basic software and user`s manual. You have to subscribe separately to EOD data services from one of two other companies (at around $25-30 pcm).
Their claims about moves in one market producing a reaction in another, either directly or inversely, sounds very persuasive, but when you come down to it all this system really does is to follow trends. After a day when the market goes up, the next day`s indicators are usually all "long", and vice versa. During a period of range bound trading the indicators bounce back & forth between long & short, making the system pointless. When there is a strong up or down trend, the indicators usually keep you in a trade, even after a short pullback/rally, but then so would any appropriately chosen MA or trailing stop loss.
I used it for "financials" but found it was an expensive waste of time. It might work better on "commodities" due to the less volatile price movements & longer trends which I`m told exist. Before trying the system I was put in touch with a user in the UK, who gave me a very favourable account of his own experiences, using it to trade a mix of futures contracts (both commodities & stock indices). I didn`t get the impression he was just a salesman in disguise. I suppose you might conclude, as with all the different ways of trading the market, it`s a question of whatever works for you personally (& gives you the discipline to confidently enter/exit trades) is the "right" system.
It uses data from 9 inter-related markets (e.g. for NASDAQ100 it uses S&P500, S&P100, DJIA, DJUA, US dollar index, 10 yr Treasury Notes, Light Crude Oil, CRB Index & NYSE Composite Index) to try to predict the trend of: (1) a 5 day moving average 2 days into the future and (2) a 10 day moving average 4 days into the future. If the predicted MA crosses the actual MA, then you consider going long or short, as appropriate. By using predicted MAs the system claims to overcome the disadvantage of other MA crossover signals - that they lag price movement.
The system also produces: (3) a neural index with a value of either 0 or 1 (short or long), based on a comparison of a predicted & actual 3 day MAs, and (4) projected highs & lows for the next trading day as low risk entry/exit points.
Vantage Point only provide the basic software and user`s manual. You have to subscribe separately to EOD data services from one of two other companies (at around $25-30 pcm).
Their claims about moves in one market producing a reaction in another, either directly or inversely, sounds very persuasive, but when you come down to it all this system really does is to follow trends. After a day when the market goes up, the next day`s indicators are usually all "long", and vice versa. During a period of range bound trading the indicators bounce back & forth between long & short, making the system pointless. When there is a strong up or down trend, the indicators usually keep you in a trade, even after a short pullback/rally, but then so would any appropriately chosen MA or trailing stop loss.
I used it for "financials" but found it was an expensive waste of time. It might work better on "commodities" due to the less volatile price movements & longer trends which I`m told exist. Before trying the system I was put in touch with a user in the UK, who gave me a very favourable account of his own experiences, using it to trade a mix of futures contracts (both commodities & stock indices). I didn`t get the impression he was just a salesman in disguise. I suppose you might conclude, as with all the different ways of trading the market, it`s a question of whatever works for you personally (& gives you the discipline to confidently enter/exit trades) is the "right" system.
bottomdollar
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Vantage Pt
Is that the Neural nets software?
Not used it myself but I'm reading a book right now about it... if it's the same one.. it's to do with intermarket relationships and stuff...
Is that the Neural nets software?
Not used it myself but I'm reading a book right now about it... if it's the same one.. it's to do with intermarket relationships and stuff...
Vantage Point is useless
I bought a set of three of their programs quite a while back... very expensive and after extensive testing was surprised at how utterly useless it was - the projected moving average would appear at 1st glance to be good as it does realiably predict up or down trends when it crosses above or below the actual moving average - but it also crosses above and below during chop - and of course there is no way to distinguish between whether the market is starting to chop or starting a new trend... no better than a standard moving average which of course is completely free.
I should also point out that their claim of "up to" 80% accuracy - this only pertains to their indexing system which is an oscillator that goes from 1 to zero, 1 being if vantagpoint expects the market to make a top in the next two days, zero being a bottom. Sounds good in theory, but in practice proved to be completely useless for me. In my discussions with other traders, I've come across three other traders who have purchased VP software in the past and all of them like me had ultimately found it useless in their trading.
I am not sure what the *actual* accuracy of this index oscillator is, it would seem rather difficult to corroborate. But some of the other data output, such as predicted high and low for the following day is usually wildly innacurate and of no use at all in futures trading.
IMO Market Technologies are likely making an awful lot of money selling something that is targetted at every traders 'wish lists' - dont get caught up in all their marketing spiel, they offer no performance guarantees or money back. And VP isnt a strategy either, its proprietary charting software and pretty rubbish at that. it doesnt give buy or sell signals, thats up to you at your discretion if you base a trading decision on their data output.
If you are seriously interested in their software, my advice would be to get them to send you the data output for the markets you are interested in, and see if you could realistically use the data in your trading - get them to do this for several weeks on the trot if necessary before shelling out several thousand dollars. Do your homework, i wish i had.
For what its worth, the program is supposed to be based on intermarket analysis, I discovered that VP doesn't seem to use those other commodities very much, because several times I discovered that Genesis had left out the daily data for something like the Dollar Index that factored into most of my other commodities, and when the data got filled in the calculation was unchanged. So much for intermarket analysis.
As far as their predicted moving average goes, someone on another forum managed to duplicate their Projected MA with about 7 lines of code, and it plots almost identical charts.
in TradeStation Easylanguage
Input: DampFactor(.3), MALength(5) ;
Vars: ProjMA(0), Mid(0), MA(0) ;
Mid = (High + Low)/2 ;
ProjMA = Mid - (DampFactor * (Mid - ProjMA[1])) ;
MA = Average(close, MALength) ;
Plot1 (ProjMA, "ProjMA" ,cyan, default, 1 ) ;
Plot2 (MA, "Avg", yellow, default, 1 ) ;
So if you are still entertaining wasting your money on this Vantagepoint setup, try the above code first and save yourself some money on the "real" thing.
I bought a set of three of their programs quite a while back... very expensive and after extensive testing was surprised at how utterly useless it was - the projected moving average would appear at 1st glance to be good as it does realiably predict up or down trends when it crosses above or below the actual moving average - but it also crosses above and below during chop - and of course there is no way to distinguish between whether the market is starting to chop or starting a new trend... no better than a standard moving average which of course is completely free.
I should also point out that their claim of "up to" 80% accuracy - this only pertains to their indexing system which is an oscillator that goes from 1 to zero, 1 being if vantagpoint expects the market to make a top in the next two days, zero being a bottom. Sounds good in theory, but in practice proved to be completely useless for me. In my discussions with other traders, I've come across three other traders who have purchased VP software in the past and all of them like me had ultimately found it useless in their trading.
I am not sure what the *actual* accuracy of this index oscillator is, it would seem rather difficult to corroborate. But some of the other data output, such as predicted high and low for the following day is usually wildly innacurate and of no use at all in futures trading.
IMO Market Technologies are likely making an awful lot of money selling something that is targetted at every traders 'wish lists' - dont get caught up in all their marketing spiel, they offer no performance guarantees or money back. And VP isnt a strategy either, its proprietary charting software and pretty rubbish at that. it doesnt give buy or sell signals, thats up to you at your discretion if you base a trading decision on their data output.
If you are seriously interested in their software, my advice would be to get them to send you the data output for the markets you are interested in, and see if you could realistically use the data in your trading - get them to do this for several weeks on the trot if necessary before shelling out several thousand dollars. Do your homework, i wish i had.
For what its worth, the program is supposed to be based on intermarket analysis, I discovered that VP doesn't seem to use those other commodities very much, because several times I discovered that Genesis had left out the daily data for something like the Dollar Index that factored into most of my other commodities, and when the data got filled in the calculation was unchanged. So much for intermarket analysis.
As far as their predicted moving average goes, someone on another forum managed to duplicate their Projected MA with about 7 lines of code, and it plots almost identical charts.
in TradeStation Easylanguage
Input: DampFactor(.3), MALength(5) ;
Vars: ProjMA(0), Mid(0), MA(0) ;
Mid = (High + Low)/2 ;
ProjMA = Mid - (DampFactor * (Mid - ProjMA[1])) ;
MA = Average(close, MALength) ;
Plot1 (ProjMA, "ProjMA" ,cyan, default, 1 ) ;
Plot2 (MA, "Avg", yellow, default, 1 ) ;
So if you are still entertaining wasting your money on this Vantagepoint setup, try the above code first and save yourself some money on the "real" thing.
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TS Projected MA code in EXCEL
If you don't have TradeStation or anything similar (like me), you might want to play with the 'predictive MA' in Excel. The example attached uses EOD DOW data, with a 9 day MA and I've tweaked the dampening factor to 0.15 for the 'projected MA'. On it's own you could probably swing trade with it, using sound money management. My preference would be to use another indicator as a filter on the crossovers, such as OBV(30).
My Excel charting skills are limited, so apologies in advance
The chart plots OHLC as well as the MA and Projected MA. Perhaps someone could pretty this up, say to a candlestick chart with the MAs as overlays?
Updated sheet with MA(10) and clearer chart using just High & Low data plus the MA/ProjMA.
If you don't have TradeStation or anything similar (like me), you might want to play with the 'predictive MA' in Excel. The example attached uses EOD DOW data, with a 9 day MA and I've tweaked the dampening factor to 0.15 for the 'projected MA'. On it's own you could probably swing trade with it, using sound money management. My preference would be to use another indicator as a filter on the crossovers, such as OBV(30).
My Excel charting skills are limited, so apologies in advance
The chart plots OHLC as well as the MA and Projected MA. Perhaps someone could pretty this up, say to a candlestick chart with the MAs as overlays?Updated sheet with MA(10) and clearer chart using just High & Low data plus the MA/ProjMA.
Last edited:
Dow Trader
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VANTAGE POINThttp://www.tradertech.com
http://www.tradertech.com
hi guys anyone has any knowledge/experience of this product?/
Jay
http://www.tradertech.com
hi guys anyone has any knowledge/experience of this product?/
Jay
Trader333
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Read this link which basically says it is rubbish.
http://www.trade2win.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?s=&forumid=89&threadid=8626
http://www.trade2win.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?s=&forumid=89&threadid=8626
Max44
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Are we learning yet!?
Intermarket Analysis works for the long term... but changes now and then ranging from a year to 10or 20 odd years eg a method called decoupling where once coupled markets tend to "decouple" some time in the future; and i'm taking years. If you read the book "Intermarket Analysis" by Murphy he mentions all this. He also has given positive reference to Vantage Point. But what if once correlated markets starts to "decouple" what then.... all software calculation for the neural network modules in Vantage point would have to change right?! Now THAT'S NOT mentioned..... are they aware of that???!!!!
I have tried VP for a year now... Yes the sales person was pushy and being in the UK wanted me to find other sales for him in the UK..... !!
I, like others, find that there PMA was good, but their predicted H & L was in accurate and useless at times. You are better off using candlestick charting which is effective using metastock with a plugin.... which still doesn't come anywhere near VP price.
I Really want get my money back on this, but it's been a year and i haven't really made any greater amounts of money from it than to just use my own trading ways/rules.... i have just made more money from experience and getting better.... but not from the software!
Anybody know how i can get my money back after a year from these people?
thanks
Intermarket Analysis works for the long term... but changes now and then ranging from a year to 10or 20 odd years eg a method called decoupling where once coupled markets tend to "decouple" some time in the future; and i'm taking years. If you read the book "Intermarket Analysis" by Murphy he mentions all this. He also has given positive reference to Vantage Point. But what if once correlated markets starts to "decouple" what then.... all software calculation for the neural network modules in Vantage point would have to change right?! Now THAT'S NOT mentioned..... are they aware of that???!!!!
I have tried VP for a year now... Yes the sales person was pushy and being in the UK wanted me to find other sales for him in the UK..... !!
I, like others, find that there PMA was good, but their predicted H & L was in accurate and useless at times. You are better off using candlestick charting which is effective using metastock with a plugin.... which still doesn't come anywhere near VP price.
I Really want get my money back on this, but it's been a year and i haven't really made any greater amounts of money from it than to just use my own trading ways/rules.... i have just made more money from experience and getting better.... but not from the software!
Anybody know how i can get my money back after a year from these people?
thanks
I too responded to a pop-up advert and received a call from the co's salesman. I asked for and got telephone number of one of the users in the UK. I spoke to the user who appeared to be a trader and not a salesman in disguise. The user gave me good information on the software and he seemed to be happy with the software. In the users experience the software produces correct signals 7 times out of ten. He also said once in the trade if you have discipline to manage the trade than the results are pleasing. Furthermore, he also said that the system does what it says on the box.
I was quite tempted to purchase entry level software US$2,900, but having read this and other threads, am not too sure now. There are more negative comments than positive and may be the majority is right. he thread has saved me US$ 2900. Thanks to all the contributors.
regards
Gullible
I was quite tempted to purchase entry level software US$2,900, but having read this and other threads, am not too sure now. There are more negative comments than positive and may be the majority is right. he thread has saved me US$ 2900. Thanks to all the contributors.
regards
Gullible
Oldalbanian
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I have been using Vantagepoint for several months and find it certainly pays foir itself if you follow a few simple rules I have learned by experience.
1. Ignore the predicted high and low figures - widely off the mark.
2. Accept the trend change of direction as gospel if the following criteria are met.
a. The existing trend has been in place fopr at least 12 trading days.
b. The PTMdiff figure has moved consistently for four sessions in the same direction.
3. It does not work for FOREX or "day trading".
4. For the DJIA and commodities it is at least 80% following the above rules
1. Ignore the predicted high and low figures - widely off the mark.
2. Accept the trend change of direction as gospel if the following criteria are met.
a. The existing trend has been in place fopr at least 12 trading days.
b. The PTMdiff figure has moved consistently for four sessions in the same direction.
3. It does not work for FOREX or "day trading".
4. For the DJIA and commodities it is at least 80% following the above rules
