Ukraine invasion

Phylo said:
The various posts, commentaries and issues earnestly and hotly debated on this thread are a source of revision, new information, reassessments, reflection and, at times, amusing entertainments.
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Phylo,
True.
However, there are issues that don't change fundamentally and have been discussed on the thread until the cows come home and don't need to be raked over yet again, e.g. Nazis in the Wagner Group, (allegedly).
;)
Phylo said:
To quote / paraphrase the late Queen: 'Recollections may vary' / 'Opinions will vary.'
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The nice thing about a thread like this is that everything is in black and white, so recollections don't vary that much about what's been said as anyone can check. Opinions do of course vary - and always will.
Phylo said:
What tomorrow holds only tomorrow knows. Anything-can-and-will-happen.
  • The show may go according to your envisioned conclusions.
  • The show may go accounting to Tom, Dick or Harry's Harriet's envisioned conclusions.
  • The show may go NATO.
  • The show may escalate nuclear tactical.
  • The show may escalate nuclear strategic.
Click to expand...
A fair assessment.
My focus is to ensure that your last two bullet points don't materialise.
Phylo said:
Time limits reciprocal commentary.
However, unknown others are always watching so there is always an audience to educate against the dark side. :devilish::)
Click to expand...
I agree with you about educating an audience against the 'dark side' as you call it. That's one of the reasons why I post to the thread. Gratifyingly, I've been PM'd by a lurker who's told me s/he's changed their views about the conflict after reading my posts and those of us on the 'light side' of the argument.
Phylo said:
While these debates and discussions are educational they do not directly and practically benefiting the people and children traumatized by the war. The thread and forum reach is minimal.
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True, but that's not the point of the thread and isn't the reason why I post to it.
Phylo said:
Direct and practical benefits require more than words - see my post # 3,248 section BTW: https://www.trade2win.com/threads/ukraine-invasion.240741/post-3242653
I wait - in anticipation of your reply.
Click to expand...
What would be of immense practical benefit to all Ukrainians and many Russians caught up in this completely pointless and avoidable debacle would be for the death and destruction to stop TODAY! First and foremost, that's what needs to happen and I invite you to join me in demanding those with the power to make this happen to exercise that power before the war escalates into a nuclear conflict; a prospect which looks ever more likely with each passing day.
Tim.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
@timsk
Can you show me where Pentagon says Ukranians are suffering more casualties than Russians?
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You'll have to trawl back through egghead Brian's videos for that, CV.
The exact numbers of casualties on either side is something one can only guess at, but a good idea of the ratio can be arrived at by looking at the size of the respective armies, number of weapons used and rounds fired etc. Russia dwarfs Ukraine in this regard and we know the latter are running short of trained and experienced servicemen because anyone of fighting age is prohibited from leaving the country and, additionally, we see new recruits getting their basic training here in the U.K. You must have seen the videos where the BBC interview someone who says something along the lines of: "last week I was a _______ (profession) - now I'm a soldier". The Russia Today article I linked to in a recent post provides a good overview of all of this and puts the scale of the problem for Ukraine into perspective. In case you missed it, here it is again . . .

What’s Ahead in the War in Ukraine​

 
timsk said:
Phylo,
True.
However, there are issues that don't change fundamentally and have been discussed on the thread until the cows come home and don't need to be raked over yet again, e.g. Nazis in the Wagner Group, (allegedly).
;)

The nice thing about a thread like this is that everything is in black and white, so recollections don't vary that much about what's been said as anyone can check. Opinions do of course vary - and always will.

A fair assessment.
My focus is to ensure that your last two bullet points don't materialise.

I agree with you about educating an audience against the 'dark side' as you call it. That's one of the reasons why I post to the thread. Gratifyingly, I've been PM'd by a lurker who's told me s/he's changed their views about the conflict after reading my posts and those of us on the 'light side' of the argument.

True, but that's not the point of the thread and isn't the reason why I post to it.

What would be of immense practical benefit to all Ukrainians and many Russians caught up in this completely pointless and avoidable debacle would be for the death and destruction to stop TODAY! First and foremost, that's what needs to happen and I invite you to join me in demanding those with the power to make this happen to exercise that power before the war escalates into a nuclear conflict; a prospect which looks ever more likely with each passing day.
Tim.
Click to expand...

In brief –

A detailed and on surface noble reply.

Any statement on any retail trading forum with intent to *insure* that the show does not escalate nuclear tactical or strategic is a delusional statement. No one – absolutely no one – of strategic political or military command or of strategic political or military command influence is remotely aware of this this thread or would bother to give this thread the slightest attention. While on the surface noble of intent, the claimed or believed practical efficacy is in reality an illusion. Even 10,000 lurker converts and their knock on influences will have zero effect with respect to the 'masters of puppets'. From the practical perspective – these lone evangelical preachings (not specifically this instance but the gist of incessant repetitions of the same tedious core preachings, bordering on fanaticism) are recognized as having zero – nada – practical effect on strategic events. Their value and contribution – as discussion of alternative considerations - on the local village forum is well noted.

I will not be joining you in
demanding those with the power to make this happen to exercise that power before the war escalates into a nuclear conflict
Click to expand...
for reasons as stated above.

As stated my considerations are - this is purely impractical wishful & magical thinking that beyond the local village audience will have zero ‘direct practical’ effect on the 'Ukraine Invasion' by Russian armed forces.

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”
― Omar Khayyám

Now - my referred post does offer a way to impact and participate in ‘direct practical’* alleviation of sufferings resulting from the ‘Ukraine Invasion’ by Russian armed forces.

I draw attention to the title of the thread - ‘Ukraine Invasion’.

Your statement -
‘True, but that's not the point of the thread....’
Click to expand...
- and the tone of other statements (see thread) gives the impression you are appointed arbitrator of the thread direction and scope. That’s not my understanding or disposition.

Anyone coming across a lone woman about to go into labor will not hesitate to whip out a mobile/cell phone and call emergency assistance. Unless, of course,
  • if they do not have a phone (can't afford one)
  • or are purely callous and pride themselves on their glib indifference.
  • all of the above
 
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timsk said:
You'll have to trawl back through egghead Brian's videos for that, CV.
Click to expand...
It is like if I tell you to watch Jake Broe to know why Ukraine is winning...
I am discussing with you not with Brian.
Brian thinks Russia is winning, fine, nothing new.
I don't think the Pentagon has ever declared the Ukranian army has more casualties than Russian army.
I Ukrain was suffering 5 times the casualtie of Russians ther would not be a stalmate like this, they wold steamroll Ukraine, or at least have full controll over the annexed provinces.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
It is like if I tell you to watch Jake Broe to know why Ukraine is winning...
Click to expand...
CV,
Two questions for you: do you genuinely believe, in your heart of hearts and with all the evidence made available to you on this thread and elsewhere - that:
A) Ukraine is winning - and will win - this war? And . . .
B) Ukraine isn't suffering far greater losses in terms of both personnel and kit than the Russians are?
 
timsk said:
A) Ukraine is winning - and will win - this war? And . . .
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Yes, Ukrain is winning, it will win by Feb 2024 as for my bet.
It will become another Poland long term.
timsk said:
B) Ukraine isn't suffering far greater losses in terms of both personnel and kit than the Russians are?
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Ukranian army is suffering a huge amount of losses but these losses are 50% of the losses of the Russian army.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
. . . Ukranian army is suffering a huge amount of losses but these losses are 50% of the losses of the Russian army.
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CV,
Amazing!
What makes you believe this? I ask as it's news to me and negates the points I was making about the relative size of the two forces which is widely recognised and accepted by pro-Ukrainian western commentators. (Again - by way of example - see the article I linked to!)
 
timsk said:
Phylo,
Two questions for you, too:
A) How old are you?
B) What level of education have you attained?
Of course, if you prefer not to answer - that's fine.
Click to expand...
Appears to be a standard tactic of response when the veil of delusion and illusion is lifted for a brief second. ;)

Education ? Why sir, I have none. I attended no schools or halls of learning, sir. I'm but a humble barrow boy, sir.

Ukraine invasion

The various posts, commentaries and issues earnestly and hotly debated on this thread are a source of revision, new information, reassessments, reflection and, at times, amusing entertainments. Phylo, True. However, there are issues that don't change fundamentally and have been discussed on the...
www.trade2win.com
 
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southfront.org

Russian Armed Forces Gaining Momentum In Donbass Following Liberation Of Soledar

As MSM, the Washington establishment and its Kiev puppets pretend that they do not see photos and videos of Russian...
southfront.org southfront.org

southfront.org

Ukrainian Militants Are Proud Of Their Chemical Weapons On Donbass Front Lines

Amid the ongoing heavy battles in Bakhmut, Wagner fighters reported that Ukrainian soldiers are using unidentified chemical weapons in an...
southfront.org southfront.org

english.pravda.ru

PMC Wagner upset Russian Defence Ministry wants to steal its victory

According to Prigozhin, "intraspecific struggle, corruption, bureaucracy and officials who want to keep their offices" could cause "significant damage"
english.pravda.ru english.pravda.ru

Done - you can compare with Yesterday at 7:55 PM (Ukrainian map)

1673645842334.png


"According to RussiaToday, the losses of the Ukrainian side in Soledar since the beginning of autumn may amount to about 20-25 thousand servicemen."
 
CavaliereVerde said:
Zelensky declared 100 casualties per day for Ukranians.
Russian casualties are estimated at 100.000 so far.
Click to expand...
CV,
You appear to be saying that you believe anything Ukraine says and dismiss anything Russia says as lies and propaganda? That's a very biased and highly risky strategy and, I repeat, doesn't sit well with the established facts about the relative size of the two forces. Russia has waaaaaay more kit and ammo yet, according to you, it's losing waaaaaay more soldiers than Ukraine. That makes no sense as, all other things being equal, the larger and better equipped side will inflict more casualties on the less well equipped side surely?

We know that it's not down to the quality of Russian weaponry or the training of soldiers in its use, because (with the exception of the Iranian drones) it's all Russian made. The Ukrainians on the other hand have all but used up the Russian made kit they started the war with and are now reliant on largely out of date stock from the U.S. and Europe which they have to learn how to use from scratch. We know it's not down to quality, because whatever the Ukrainians have - and I include HIMARS in this - the Russians have an equivalent that's at least as good if not better. Perhaps the Russians are just bad shots and keep missing their targets, whereas the Ukrainians are ace shots and hit their targets every time - could that be it? Unless you can explain these anomalies, I suggest you reevaluate how much of your own propaganda you're prepared to swallow unquestioningly.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
You appear to be saying that you believe anything Ukraine says and dismiss anything Russia says as lies and propaganda?
Click to expand...
Unfortunatelly Russia has a huge trackrecord of lies so what they state has a 20% credibility.
For Ukraine I can't fing huge blatant lies, so I would give tham at least 70% credibility.
 
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