Ukraine invasion

[timsk]

Anyone who's interested in getting a balanced view about the root causes of the war would do well to read this article in which Pierre de Gaulle, the grandson of former French President General Charles de Gaulle (who is also a a general in the French army), shares his opinions on the war and has defended Russia, which he believes is being conspired against.

It's not necessary to like M. de Gaulle, let alone agree with him, but it is necessary to consider his comments with an open mind and not to dismiss them out of hand. Enjoy . . .

Grandson of former French President Charles de Gaulle defends ‘under attack’ Russia and slams EU​

Of particular interest, IMO, are his comments about the role of the U.S. in the conflict. He said: “I think that public opinion in France is beginning to understand what the evil game of the Americans is today. By using lies primarily when communicating with allies within NATO, the United States has managed to use the Ukrainian crisis to destabilise Europe.”

“The Americans, as it were, cut off Europe from Russia, set the Europeans against the Russians. Why would they do that? Because Europe in alliance with Russia could be a strong bloc both politically and economically, culturally and socially – in general, up to 500 million people live in the EU and Russia,” he added.

“Ever since the Vietnam War and the economic crises that followed, Americans have always tried by force, cunning and other dishonest means to make up for the loss of their economic and political influence, although it is inevitable.

“In particular, the Americans are trying to slow down the dollar’s loss of its status as the only (that is, monopoly) world exchange currency. And this policy continues.”

Isn't there a member of T2W who's been making this very same point right here on this thread?!

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

MoA - Ukraine - The Big Push To End The War

Retired USMC Colonel Andy Milburn Surprisingly Tells Some Truth About Ukraine

sonar21.com

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Isn't there a member of T2W who's been making this very same point right here on this thread?!

You will always find a conspiracy that fits what you believe, this time it is shared by Pierre De Gaulle.

I will make you a question.
Imagine Putin won the special operation in 3-30 days, Zelensky is in Poland and we have a Lukashenko 2.0 ruling Ukraine/Novorossia.
Do you think that would significantly harm US egemony or USD position as a reserve currency of the world?

 

[timsk]

You will always find a conspiracy that fits what you believe, this time it is shared by Pierre De Gaulle.

The thing to note about so called conspiracy theories is that over the past few years almost all of them have been proved to be 100% correct. Be that as it may, is there any chance that you might make even a token effort to address the message rather than discrediting the messenger out of hand as a conspiracy theorist - just because he presents a narrative you disagree with? Seemingly not.

I will make you a question.
Imagine Putin won the special operation in 3-30 days, Zelensky is in Poland and we have a Lukashenko 2.0 ruling Ukraine/Novorossia.
Do you think that would significantly harm US egemony or USD position as a reserve currency of the world?

I've really no idea, but it's irrelevant as that's not the current situation. The point about U.S. hegemony is that they (the U.S.) want to preserve their dominance; that's their primary concern. Putin and Russia's primary concern isn't about harming U.S., it's about protecting Ukrainian Russians and Russian Russians from what they perceive - rightly or wrongly - as an existential threat.

 

[Phylo]

World:
Denmark : 88
Germany : 80
United Kingdom : 78
Canada : 74
France : 71
United States : 67
Italy : 56
Poland : 56
China : 45
Turkey : 38
Ukraine : 32
Angola : 29
Russia : 29
North Korea : 16
Syria : 13

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-index?continent=europe

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

But at the same time, the same day, the same moment, that this attack took place, a Russian missile hit a Ukrainian facility, a converted ice skating rink, killed nearly 200 people, destroyed significant quantities of ammunition and material

Scott Ritter lies again! The hockey rink clearly (see video below) did not store "significant quantities of ammunition and material†" -- I'm sure all readers here are shocked. And the "killed nearly 200 people" appears to have been "two people were injured," but that's just a simple rounding error.

Ukraine's top hockey arena struck in Russian missile attack

Ukraine's premier hockey facility, now used as a warehouse for humanitarian aid, was struck by Russian missiles on Tuesday.

www.yahoo.com

†Hockey equipment for conscripted Russian soldiers might be considered an upgrade, but that doesn't apply here.

 

[Phylo]

Arrests and conviction for sex offenses

Ritter was the subject of two law enforcement sting operations in 2001.[34]

He was charged in June 2001 with trying to set up a meeting with an undercover police officer posing as a 16-year-old girl.[35][36] He was charged with a misdemeanor crime of "attempted endangerment of the welfare of a child". The charge was dismissed and the record was sealed after he completed six months of pre-trial probation.[36][6] After this information was made public in early 2003, Ritter said that the timing of the leak was politically motivated in order to silence his opposition to the Bush administration's push toward war with Iraq.[35][36][37]

Ritter was arrested again in November 2009[38] over communications with a police decoy he met on an Internet chat site. Police said that he exposed himself, via a web camera, after the officer repeatedly identified himself as a 15-year-old girl.[2] Ritter said in his own testimony during the trial that he believed the other party was an adult acting out her fantasy.[5] The chat room had an "age 18 and above" policy, which Ritter stated to the undercover officer.[2]

The next month, Ritter waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was released on $25,000 unsecured bail. Charges included "unlawful contact with a minor, criminal use of a communications facility, corruption of minors, indecent exposure, possessing instruments of crime, criminal attempt and criminal solicitation".[39] Ritter rejected a plea bargain and was found guilty of all but the criminal attempt count in a courtroom in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, on April 14, 2011.[2][40]

In October 2011, he received a sentence of 1½ to 5½ years in prison.[41] He was sent to Laurel Highlands state prison in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, in March 2012 and paroled in September 2014.[4][5][6]

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

Ah, Putin and his goodwill gestures know no bounds.

Ukraine war: Kyiv rejects Putin's Russian Orthodox Christmas truce

The 36-hour Orthodox Christmas ceasefire is "a cover" to stop the Ukrainian advance, Zelensky says.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if the ceasefire order without the soldiers following the cease part made Vlad mad or glad?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I wonder if the ceasefire order without the soldiers following the cease part made Vlad mad or glad?

âSatanismâ: Russian diplomat on Kiev stripping 13 Orthodox priests of citizenship

Since November, Ukrainian law enforcement agencies have been conducting a series of raids against UOC churches

tass.com

Russia to continue observing ceasefire until midnight despite shelling by Ukraine

Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov said

tass.com

Zaporozhye head says Ukraine disrespects human values by refusing to support ceasefire

Yevgeny Balitsky noted Russian President Vladimir Putin had ordered a ceasefire along the line of combat engagement and called on Kiev to follow the example to allow believers to celebrate Christmas

tass.com

Doomed Christmas Ceasefire On Ukrainian Front Lines

DEAR FRIENDS. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF CONTENT, SUPPORT SOUTHFRONT WORK : MONERO (XMR): 86yfEHs6pkoDEKCxc6MAnQX8cVHmzhYxMVrNuwKgNmqpWK8dDxjgGnK8PtUNJMACbn6xEGxmRauNTHJhUJpg9Mwz8htBBND BITCOIN (BTC): bc1qgu58lfszcpqu6fd8l98m378wgzugyg9y93lcym BITCOIN...

southfront.org

 

[Phylo]

Rivision / Refresher
Disclaimer : Not in agreement with slanted header - Putin (Russia) is not finished.
The fat lady has not sung* . The lady is fat ..... the lady may or may not make it to the stage. However, if she makes it, it will be a great finale with encores for the Ukraine. If not, the other fat lady sings with encores for the Moscow. Maybe both ladies sing. Maybe both fat ladies end up so fucked, neither sing. The show is not over.
* re - 'the show is not over until the fat lady has sung.'

Source: https://www.vox.com/2014/5/28/5758662/occupation-europe-map-ukraine

 

[timsk]

Arrests and conviction for sex offenses

Phylo,
You are of course welcome to join the discussion and post to the thread. However, as a matter of courtesy to those who have been here since the beginning, it would be good if you could familiarise yourself with what's been said ad nauseam already - so that we don't have to rake over old coals simply for your benefit. The Ritter sex case has been covered very comprehensively several times and I'm not going to waste my time addressing the topic yet again. Sorry!

The other point to mention is that it would be very much appreciated if you felt able to do what most of you on the wrong side of the argument struggle with for some reason - which is to address the message rather than attacking the messenger!

If you can do the above - then I look forward to your contributions.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

address the message rather than attacking the messenger!

When you say that mainstram media is crap or pro Ukraine propaganda are you shooting the message or the messanger?

 

[timsk]

Scott Ritter lies again! The hockey rink clearly (see video below) did not store "significant quantities of ammunition and material†" -- I'm sure all readers here are shocked. And the "killed nearly 200 people" appears to have been "two people were injured,"

. . . And you know this how, exactly? Have you been there or perhaps you know someone who worked there and is a reliable source?

If you're just going to brand someone a liar for presenting a different narrative from the one you choose to believe - then you may as well brand me a liar and visa versa. Let's suppose you are correct in what you assert and have cast iron proof to back it up - that still doesn't make Ritter a liar. At worst, it makes him look ill informed or, possibly, foolish in the event that he's accepted some propaganda unquestioningly.

I realise you're all desperate to discredit Ritter any way you can because he's a military expert who makes excellent well argued points which you're completely unable to address. I feel your frustration, I really do!

 

[timsk]

When you say that mainstram media is crap or pro Ukraine propaganda are you shooting the message or the messanger?

CV,
All sides in wars pump out propaganda.
I am not suggesting - and have never suggested - that only Ukraine does this and that everything the Russians say is 100% true. I don't doubt the Russians are just as guilty of this as anyone else. Propaganda is just a fact of life. Calling it out is absolutely fine, which includes castigating those who spread it (be it the BBC, Ritter or whoever) - if (note emphasis) one has evidence that that's what it is. Failing that, it's fine to say one doesn't believe the BBC, Ritter or whoever - unless and until they provide evidence to support what they claim.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

Update on the ongoing conflict in and around Ukraine for January 8, 2022

• The US announced a major military aid package for Ukraine including 50 Bradley fighting vehicles, 18 M109 self-propelled 155mm howitzers, additional MRAP and Humvees as well as additional ammunition for various systems
• Despite the relatively large size of the package compared with the last several months of aid, the weapons and ammunition fall far short of replacing even Ukraine’s losses let alone granting Ukraine the ability to match or over power Russian forces.
• Ukraine will likely use many of these systems to patch up elite units within its deteriorating brigades.
• Germany and France are also sending armoured vehicles, the Mauder infantry fighting vehicle and the AMX-10 RC respectively.
• This is likely paving the way to send additional heavy weapons like main battle tanks.
• These systems collectively are less-than-ideal for Ukraine, logistics, sustainment, and maintenance issues will hinder their effective use in combat, they also will not be arriving in the numbers necessary to replace Ukrainian losses or outmatch Russian forces.

 

[Phylo]

Phylo,
You are of course welcome to join the discussion and post to the thread. However, as a matter of courtesy to those who have been here since the beginning, it would be good if you could familiarise yourself with what's been said ad nauseam already - so that we don't have to rake over old coals simply for your benefit. The Ritter sex case has been covered very comprehensively several times and I'm not going to waste my time addressing the topic yet again. Sorry!

The other point to mention is that it would be very much appreciated if you felt able to do what most of you on the wrong side of the argument struggle with for some reason - which is to address the message rather than attacking the messenger!

If you can do the above - then I look forward to your contributions.
Tim.

Have to be off - address your concerns at a later date. Adult female with ovaries and mother of my legacy inheritors has called for time out.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

to patch up elite units within its deteriorating brigades.

These systems collectively are less-than-ideal for Ukraine, logistics, sustainment, and maintenance issues will hinder their effective use in combat,

What a balanced way to present facts!

 

[timsk]

The link below is to an important article written by Alex Vershinin, a highly credible military expert, for a U.S. organisation called Russia Matters that exists to: ". . . Ensure that U.S. policies toward Russia are conducive to the advancement of long-term U.S. vital national interests . . ." In it, Vershinin makes many of the points that Scott Ritter, Col. Douglas Macgregor, The New Atlas and The Duran have been making for months now. The bottom line to them all is that the conflict is a war of attrition which heavily favours Russia. Enjoy . . .

What’s Ahead in the War in Ukraine​

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

. . . And you know this how, exactly? Have you been there or perhaps you know someone who worked there and is a reliable source?

If you're just going to brand someone a liar for presenting a different narrative from the one you choose to believe - then you may as well brand me a liar and visa versa. Let's suppose you are correct in what you assert and have cast iron proof to back it up - that still doesn't make Ritter a liar. At worst, it makes him look ill informed or, possibly, foolish in the event that he's accepted some propaganda unquestioningly.

I realise you're all desperate to discredit Ritter any way you can because he's a military expert who makes excellent well argued points which you're completely unable to address. I feel your frustration, I really do!

Shirley, you can't be serious. When I wrote "see video below" that's a hint to look at the video for the evidence the hockey rink was not a military warehouse.

Scott Ritter reported on the incident, days after it happened. That's enough time to research what happened and not just make up what his audience wants to hear.

So, since Scott Ritter is considered an expert, one would have to assume he is a liar when he says something that is not true and backed by evidence (e.g., here, here, and of course this hockey rink attack).

 

[timsk]

Shirley, you can't be serious. When I wrote "see video below" that's a hint to look at the video for the evidence the hockey rink was not a military warehouse.

Scott Ritter reported on the incident, days after it happened. That's enough time to research what happened and not just make up what his audience wants to hear.

So, since Scott Ritter is considered an expert, one would have to assume he is a liar when he says something that is not true and backed by evidence (e.g., here, here, and of course this hockey rink attack).

I'll take your word for it R_L.

I confess I rarely click on links you include in your posts these days as, based on past experience, they often circle back to old points, lead nowhere in particular or end in cul-de-sacs, and are difficult and very time consuming to cross reference because there's often numerous links within a single post. Rightly or wrongly, I concluded long ago that it's a tactic designed to waste my time. Ergo, these days, unless it's crystal clear what the link is to, why you've included it and what one can expect to read/see by clicking on it - I'm afraid I don't bother. Once bitten, twice shy.

I'm telling you this for your benefit so you know what you need to do in future if you have a genuine point to make and actually want me (and others) to check out the links you include.