Trading with a mood disorder

[dealer911]

Rob,

I have been trading for 20 years but was only diagnosed with depression about 3 years ago. In hindsight I think I suffered for a long time before i got treatment. I have found it did impact my trading in a big way and I learnt to recognise the onset of an episode and stop trading. I think many of the traders I worked with over the years have had some form of mood disorder.. perhaps you need it to do this for a living! I have worked at Investment Banks and a hedge fund and looking back I would say at least 30% of the traders I worked with had mental health issues. The last few years I have worked on automating my approach in an attempt to reduce depression induced blow ups and I have had some moderate success in this area. Since being diagnosed I have found that I am much better at recognising the warning signs and like in any other career I might have had part of the treatment for me is to step away from "work" when I'm about to crash! Know thy self!!

 

[robertdaley]

Rob,

I have been trading for 20 years but was only diagnosed with depression about 3 years ago. In hindsight I think I suffered for a long time before i got treatment. I have found it did impact my trading in a big way and I learnt to recognise the onset of an episode and stop trading. I think many of the traders I worked with over the years have had some form of mood disorder.. perhaps you need it to do this for a living! I have worked at Investment Banks and a hedge fund and looking back I would say at least 30% of the traders I worked with had mental health issues. The last few years I have worked on automating my approach in an attempt to reduce depression induced blow ups and I have had some moderate success in this area. Since being diagnosed I have found that I am much better at recognising the warning signs and like in any other career I might have had part of the treatment for me is to step away from "work" when I'm about to crash! Know thy self!!

Thanks for that. Yes, when I have a full blown episode, particularly where psychosis is involved, I certainly don't want to be trading. I have been caught out in the past and have not always been able to recognize warning signs before it is too late. I hope having a coach may help in this regard. They say medication helps to reduce the severity of the swings, well I hope I can develop a method which involves more gradual swings too.

I wish you well in your battle with depression and in trading too.

Rob

 

[dealer911]

Thanks for that. Yes, when I have a full blown episode, particularly where psychosis is involved, I certainly don't want to be trading. I have been caught out in the past and have not always been able to recognize warning signs before it is too late. I hope having a coach may help in this regard. They say medication helps to reduce the severity of the swings, well I hope I can develop a method which involves more gradual swings too.

I wish you well in your battle with depression and in trading too.

Rob

My pleasure - I'm not sure a coach will help you battle your demons but dont let this health problem put you off your goal.. very famous trader called jesse livermore thats worth you reading up on.. sadly he committed suicide in the end - I believe he had an undiagnosed condition but it didnt stop him becoming perhaps the best trader in history!

 

[robertdaley]

I've started a paper journal this week. I have made 5 trades recently, eurgbp short 23/10, audnzd long 25/10, crude oil long 27/10, gbpjpy long 31/10, eurnzd long 4/11, risking £50 each trade...result +£230 (averaging nearly 1R per trade)

I am making progress with my coach. I have learnt to talk back to my self-critical voice. I am giving rational responses to my automatic (negative) thoughts.

I am visualizing success.

I feel confident that I will succeed.

 

[robertdaley]

My pleasure - I'm not sure a coach will help you battle your demons but dont let this health problem put you off your goal.. very famous trader called jesse livermore thats worth you reading up on.. sadly he committed suicide in the end - I believe he had an undiagnosed condition but it didnt stop him becoming perhaps the best trader in history!

Thanks dealer911,

Jesse is an idol of mine. I've got his book 'How to trade in stocks'. I admire much about his method. Yes, he suffered from depression (or bipolar) and took his own life. He made millions and lost millions several times. He knew when to go in heavy and he had the guts to do it.

One of my favourite quotes of his...

It's not the thinkin' that makes the money, it's the sitting and waiting that makes the money.'

 

[robertdaley]

I watched some Mark Douglas videos the other day, and he talks about having a 'series of trades' mentality rather than getting all emotional about a single trade. He suggested one set out to take a sample of 20 trades, all with similar set and forget parameters, then analyze and review at the end.

So I have started as of yesterday with GBPNZD long and Brent crude short. I will update as to whether the take profit limits or the stop losses are hit. After I have taken 20 trades I will calculate how much profit or loss I have accrued.

 

[robertdaley]

Hi,

I'm back to update on my progress. I had been breaking even for the last few months, until last month when, risking about .5% of my total capital per trade (which equates to £30). I took 15 trades and made £492 profit. I had 11 winners and 4 losers.

This month I have increased my risk exposure to 1%, taken 6 trades and made £70 profit so far. I have learned to control my emotions better of late. I am trading daily signals in line with the trend from key s/r levels and often after a weekly trigger signal.

I feel I am making progress. Patience and discipline are fundamentally important factors, and I am improving in these aspects. I have also been stable mentally for quite some time now, and that helps! Onwards and upwards.

 

[Fugazsy]

Good and honest thread.

I am not sure I can give a good advise here but I can share my perceptions.

Mostly I am day trader and emotions come knocking at the door every day..... at one point I was not trading anymore but my emotions were. It was not fun, I was battling, my mind with all his limitations was pulling and pushing me all about without financial's remuneration.

I had to learn to monitor and feel my emotions without reacting to them...... with my presence coming forward my emotions lost power.... they still come knocking on the door and I doubt they will ever stop but the knocking does not bother me........ actually at times I am able to use them in my favour.....

 

[ffsear]

Hi. Trading is doubly difficult for me because I find my mood fluctuates from manic euphoria to deep depression. When I am euphoric I take more risks financially and don't keep to my trading plan's rules. When I am depressed I am timid and fearful and indecisive. Lack of confidence is the main reason why I do not make big money (relatively speaking). I've been trading for five years and feel like I am well on the way if only I could have some control over my moods. I am interested in ideas that could help me. I am thinking of enlisting the help of a trading coach for starters, who can act as a mentor/counsellor.

I want to keep a journal of my trades and my journey but my posts may be sporadic as I am sometimes unable to do so.

Any tips from people who may not be bipolar but simply struggle to manage their emotions would be most welcomed. Cheers. Rob

I don't know what its like to have bi-poler. But i was diagnosed with Adult ADHD a couple of years ago. This means i'm a very impulsive person, act first, think later kind of guy. It affects my memory and my ability to express myself amount other things.

Trading is all about finding a method that suits you. So given the above, any kind of long term, mid term, waiting for hourly charts to setup has allways meant failure for me. My personality has always called for a very fast and short term approach to the market. Tight stops and taking profit at 5-10 pips, multiple time a day. If i sat there looking a the daily charts, i'd get bored and make mistakes.

I think you need to identify which style works best for you when feel at you most stable, and perhaps leave the markets alone when your feeling slightly manic.

 

[NVP]

Hi. Trading is doubly difficult for me because I find my mood fluctuates from manic euphoria to deep depression. When I am euphoric I take more risks financially and don't keep to my trading plan's rules. When I am depressed I am timid and fearful and indecisive. Lack of confidence is the main reason why I do not make big money (relatively speaking). I've been trading for five years and feel like I am well on the way if only I could have some control over my moods. I am interested in ideas that could help me. I am thinking of enlisting the help of a trading coach for starters, who can act as a mentor/counsellor.

I want to keep a journal of my trades and my journey but my posts may be sporadic as I am sometimes unable to do so.

Any tips from people who may not be bipolar but simply struggle to manage their emotions would be most welcomed. Cheers. Rob

Hey Rob

tough call.........if over the years you have found is difficult to control those demons perhaps you should avoid trading altogether or simple trade at levels that have no significance to your personal wealth ........

there is no shame or need to feel that you (or anyone) has failed .................it is not failure ...

in fact it is a huge success story as such people realise that they are on the wrong path and move into better directions in their life and better more successful paths..............

and believe me anyone trading needs to revisit this question all the time .....its not for the fainthearted and only the truly stongest (and predisposed with the talent/ability) will be successful.....................

if you call making money in such a way a success with you life (??).......after all its only money and the sacrifices can be very very big in this business to win

trading / Gambling will eat you alive if you have certain predisposed tendancies (as many humans have)

I grew up in a Bookmaker family and in truth we lived off people with such behaviour ......dripfeeding us a solid weekly income...........something arguably not to be proud of as I get older and wiser

N

 

[Pat Riley]

Why do you say that?

Me comments were, as almost always, meant in jest. While I’m not disposed to apologise for havin a bad sense of humour it is never me intent to personally offend. And I don’t think having the issues you describe necessarily preclude you havin a sense of humour.

However, some bods do seem to get offended at the drop of a hat these days and some even seem to go the extra mile, actually goin out of their way to see if they can find offence where there is none intended. But all that aside, if you were personally and genuinely offended by me errant wit then I do apologise, unreservedly, and I’ll buy ya a pint when I’m next in town.

If anyone else was offended then that’s probably none of their business to be so and they can go on and have a wonderful day all the same.

I’m glad yer tradin is picking up Robert. Well done.

 

[robertdaley]

No offense taken. I do have quite a good sense of humour. It is difficult to evaluate the intentions/motivations of a short textual comment/question, that is all. Politics? If the raving monster loony party was still going strong, maybe.

 

[robertdaley]

I have not made many trades this month, don't seem to be many signals. I am about 1R in profit, where I was multiple R in profit at this point in the last two months. Like I say, it's been quiet, and my goal is to end up in some sort of profit for my third straight month.

 

[Pat Riley]

Ending up 'not down' is better than most manage some months. Sitting out is as big a skill as gettin in/out. Tryin ta squeeze a trade in just to make the numbers never makes any sense.

 

[rjs950]

I don't mind sharing here, just so people know, I was diagnosed with bipolar over ten years ago and have had numerous bouts of psychosis followed by deep suicidal depression. I am on meds lithium lamotrigine abilify etc. I have had some counselling in the past on emotional issues nothing to do with trading. I have had limited exposure to psychology in the past.

Hi Rob I know excately where you are coming from as I also have bipolar.....have have a few very serious episodes where I was on 24/7 watch done the overdose thing.....I spent 2 years working with a psychologist who taught me managing skills...was very helpful. like you I want to do this very badly not to make heaps but to use my brain...you know the old saying "use it or lose it"....I have spent the last month bouncing around trying to decide to do a course/mentoring...the one I'm looking at sounds good but expensive..you hear so many stories of scams. I have have read quite a bit but find it very hard to concentrate reading so really need to be able to talk with someone. Good luck I hope it works well for you. You very welcome to pm me any time if you want someone to talk to who understands the journey you are on.