Trading the indices?

You actually believe that a support level in Rio Tinto has a direct analogy to a support level in the FTSE100? Please, go ahead and lose your money...


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT for PHUCK'S SAKE! :mad:

Support in Rio Tinto is SUPPORT IN RIO TINTO!!!

Support in the ES is SUPPORT IN THE ES! It is not support in the price of sugar, or oil, or FTSE 100!

What does it take for you to understand!?
 
You actually believe that a support level in Rio Tinto has a direct analogy to a support level in the FTSE100? Please, go ahead and lose your money... I'm happy enough to take it off you. I advocate that a newbie specialises in a single market, gets to know it's personality, it's quirks and uniqueness. THAT is the way to make money... YOUR attitude that "all markets are the same" is simply a minefield too dangerous for any trader with genuine experience to recommend.

You do nothing more than fabricate straw man arguments. I've had enough of you and your nonsense.Goodbye
 
Support in Rio Tinto is SUPPORT IN RIO TINTO!!!

By George, I believe he's got it. Yes... And support in the FTSE100 is support in the FTSE100... They are quite different things, applied in quite different ways with very different causes.

EDIT: It just occurred to me (after tenbob's post above)... I am a little slow about these things... that NT is talking only about numbers and discounting any "market personality", thus equating "numeric support levels" as having identical application in different markets... such an approach is analagous to trying to predict the weather by throwing dice rather than looking at the sky. Not recommended.
 
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possible support zone

possible resistance zone

just in case any newbies think they are set in stone

anybody else who sets stops above or below identified zones and then takes 7-10 pts profit (risking multiples per trade) and thinks they have found the holy grail might want to to take note also !

when some real money(size) is on the line support and resistance zones do not look so secure unless the trader takes the time to define them absolute within their own method


sorry to interrupt,

just my ten bobs worth
 
By George, I believe he's got it. Yes... And support in the FTSE100 is support in the FTSE100... They are quite different things, applied in quite different ways with very different causes.

I'd say applied in the same way in different markets with the same causes.
 
I'd say applied in the same way in different markets with the same causes.

Thanks for giving a sensible response and opening a dialogue as opposed to simply making blanket "you're wrong" statements.

It seems to me that support in the FTSE100 occurs when the individual components of the index collectively reach their individual support levels.

Thus, the FTSE's support levels are derived from 100 times the number of sources that each individual stock derives it's support level from... in this way, S&R in indices are much more difficult to place than in an individual stock. Although, perversely, once placed correctly may be more reliable.

The "cause" of the S&R in an index is therefore a different thing to the "cause" of S&R in (say) Rio Tinto.

Since the cause is different, the application must therefore also be different. i.e. the application of the concept of support in Rio Tinto would be subject to a number of conditions that simply aren't relevant to the FTSE100.
 
By George, I believe he's got it. Yes... And support in the FTSE100 is support in the FTSE100... They are quite different things, applied in quite different ways with very different causes.

EDIT: It just occurred to me (after tenbob's post above)... I am a little slow about these things... that NT is talking only about numbers and discounting any "market personality", thus equating "numeric support levels" as having identical application in different markets... such an approach is analagous to trying to predict the weather by throwing dice rather than looking at the sky. Not recommended.

JESUS CHRIST.
I'm a ****ing ********, ****** tw@ face. I'm sure everyone would agree.
BUT YOU! Your a genuine idiot, people like you make me feel extremely confident as a trader... Just, how the **** am i ever going to lose when i can trade people like you.

SUPPORT IS SUPPORT. THE LAWS OF SUPPORT ARE THE LAWS OF SUPPORT.
Support on the FTSE100 may be at a level of 4100 and the support in the ES may be 900 ... Different levels of support - But they are EXACTLY the same THINGS.

Support is a level at which traders assume there will be more demand than supply and thus prices will rise.
Resistance is a level at which supply > demand and therefore prices fall...

Understanding this, surely you can see why support in Rio Tinto is the same as the FTSE100...

They both have levels of support which act the same... If Demand is greater than supply at areas of support (which are areas where through analysis traders assume this to be true) prices will rise, thus support acts as a repellant to price.

Yes different markets have different support levels and different markets behave and place more importance on certain areas of support and resistance than others, for example one market the 50EMA may be a great level of support, where DEMAND is GREATER than SUPPLY and that pushes price upwards... Then all the shorts will start to buy to exit their positions, propelling price in a rally. And in other markets the 50EMA may not be a level of support.

BUT as demonstrated, i hope (although admittedly not very clearly through my frustration) you can see that the LAWS of support and resistance ARE THE SAME, regardless of anything. Support exists at a level where demand is greater than supply... Thats it. End of. If supply is greater than demand, no support. Thats it...

Jesus Christ, i'm really confusing myself - I'm right in everything i say New_trader right?
 
By George, I believe he's got it. Yes... And support in the FTSE100 is support in the FTSE100... They are quite different things, applied in quite different ways with very different causes.

EDIT: It just occurred to me (after tenbob's post above)... I am a little slow about these things... that NT is talking only about numbers and discounting any "market personality", thus equating "numeric support levels" as having identical application in different markets... such an approach is analagous to trying to predict the weather by throwing dice rather than looking at the sky. Not recommended.

You talk as though you've been trading either professionally or profitably for years and have a deep understanding of the nature of the market. For the sake of people like me and other newbies who stumble upon this thread and use this website as a learning tool would you just outline your trading experience.
 
By George, I believe he's got it. Yes... And support in the FTSE100 is support in the FTSE100... They are quite different things, applied in quite different ways with very different causes.
THEY AREN'T different things.
Jesus christ.
SUPPORT is SUPPORT.
A level that demand is greater than supply.
Through analysis of previous levels of factual support, people try to assume future levels of support and therefore a level at which if support fails with bring a breakout and if support becomes factual, through a greater demand than supply price will reverse.

Support is support regardless of market... People try to estimate where these levels are on a graph... This is what technical analysis is.

Ofcourse one level of ASSUMED support is different on the FTSE100 than Rio Tinto... And the levels of factual support differ also.
But the SUPPORT, their laws, remain the same regardless of market....

I'm so bad at explaining things.
 
The problem here is 1) that this guy has tried to solve the market 2) this has been done through thinking along the lines that all instrments are priced through nothing but indicator markets and performance which completely removes human interaction and zero dimension from the equation. I've was in this place myself. I like to call it the rainbow and sunshine market theorem.
 
The problem here is that this guy has tried to solve the market by acting as though all things are priced through nothing but indicator markets and performance which completely removes human interaction from the equation. I've was in this place myself. I like to call it the rainbow and sunshine market theorem.

By "this guy" you mean new_trader?
 
By "this guy" you mean new_trader?

ROFL NO, YOU!

Jesus christ.

Prices don't rise because of indicators.
Prices don't fall because of indicators.
Prices don't fall because of Fibonacci
Prices don't rise because of horizontal lines.

Prices rise when demand > Supply.
Prices fall when Supply > Demand.

Thats it. Nothing else. If all the indicators in the world say UP, but demand < Supply prices will fall...

Each individual with demand has a reason.
Each individual supplying has a reason.
It doesn't matter what the reason is, the formulae is Demand > Supply = ^ OR Supply > Demand = V Or Supply = Demand = -

The reasons markets sometimes accelerate so fast is that when buying demand decreases, prices start to fall, as those holding shares or contracts start to supply their longs as prices fall. Supply is greater than demand, therefore fueling the downwards fall... Eventually price will reach a level where the level of individuals supplying stock and contracts is less than demand, as a lot of people have supplied their shares and contracts as prices fall already, the move up, start with as few participants as possible... Those demanding are proffesionals, playing on the greed and failure to have an appropriate stop loss areas of others... When supply runs dry, the demand of these individuals forces price upwards, as price rises, more and more get interested and DEMAND, not many people are selling at these levels as price has just reversed and supply is limited, prices rise and then the impulsive start to enter as the market has risen significantly and they don't want to lose... The MACD starts saying buy and more demand comes into the market, eventually the supply of those who bought at the lows and want to start selling their long positions will outweigh those who still want to impulsively buy the already completely rise.
As prices rise, those previously short in the fall will DEMAND to buy contracts and close their positions, further fueling the market.

Thus the cycle repeats.
Every moment due to the laws of supply and demand.

I hope that helps, i tried to deliver that nicely.
 
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Technically, it would be possible for price to react to all of the above.
I know what you mean...
Demand may exist because of the MACD giving a buy signal and therefore the MACD indicator may be the reason indirectly for the rise...

I just didn't want to confuse that guy anymore.

Thats why every setup i've made and have is created on the question 'Are their more reasons for demand or supply here?' So that basically, i am buying at times where demand is likely... Playing on the psychology and market particpation of others...
 
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