Traders Wanted - The Tibra Group
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IC Student
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I really don't understand why everyone is so negative about the test.
ZOMG traders don't need to be maths genius, this test is stoopid
If you are running a company and need to recruit 10 people, you receive 10,000 applications but only have the capacity to interview 100 people; how would you screen the candidates?
Banks (in the UK) focus their screening by just targeting graduates from the top 6 (or 4) universities. The likes of Tibra and Optiver focus their screening by targeting only the most mentally dexterous.
A company like Tibra that trades its own capital does not rely on clients and investors like a bank. Their biggest asset is their technology, and more importantly training and retaining the brightest individuals available. Just because you scalp FX in your spare time for a decent profit does not mean you have more potential than someone who doesn't, nor does it mean you are what Tibra is looking for. I wouldn't imagine that they are looking for people keen to trade on their own (obviously an assumption), who are likely to leave the company much sooner (another assumption).
Are people really suggesting that they would assess each of the 10,000 candidates on a case-by-case basis? If you think this is viable then there is something very wrong with you.
A few people on here have come across quite hysterical, slating the test but not providing any solution to the screening problem.
I suppose it's easy for me to say this having passed the tests. I could be back on here this time next week moaning about the HR interview though 😆
N.B. Any tips for the HR interview will be appreciated 😉
crude_lover
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I think the point people are trying to make is there is nothing wrong with using a maths test as a way to cut down candidates but this is after all a trading job so maybe chuck in more trading related tests don’t judge someone purely because they cant do maths quickly.
A mathematical test is fine but 2 or 3 in a row is pathetic, I bet half these guys can't even quote where the ftse is trading or give any insight or thoughts into where they believe the markets or the economy is heading.
Maybe it is just cause im from the old school days but to be honest i couldn't give a **** if you cant work out what 1034040.30333x30323023.0+2020220.2 is, but if you understand the markets and can give sensible and intelligent opinions on them then that would impress me.
IC Student
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I realise that you were being facetious with this example but I'll point out that the arithmetic really isn't that difficult, no more so than two-digit numbers multiplied together. At least with Tibra all of the arithmetic questions are put in to the context of share price and interest calculations as opposed to the arbitrary sums at other market maker's assessment centres.
Maybe you're right, maybe there should be a test more related to trading. However a trading simulation type test would give an advantage to people who have experience trading (even those who have tried and failed). Who is to say someone with experience trading has more potential than someone who doesn't?
I think that the tests are aimed to screen candidates based only on their implicit strengths. Ambition and motivation can be assessed by HR providing the candidate has the natural talent; then finally technical knowledge can be tested by senior trading staff. The process seems quite logical to me.
Don't judge someone because they can't do maths quickly? There are plenty of other companies that don't. The likes of Tibra are renowned for attracting the brightest graduates on the market. They achieve this through their reputation, culture and of course remuneration. If a company has a culture of quick thinkers, and this is something that you cannot identify with, why would you apply to them?
Your middle paragraph is quite a big generalisation, although it will obviously apply some candidates; they'll just be found out at a later stage.
tradespreads
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Now if we could these thinkers to make a real, meaningful contribution to society. Instead of out to make a quick buck for personal gain.
wolfefx
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I agree with the gentlemen and math geniuses, trading has nothing to do with genius, algos or even reading a chart. The key element to success in trading of self awareness and the ability to recognize that markets do go in patterns but also the ability to recognize that these patterns always change and need to be adapted to. A quant can't because he or she deals in tangibles whereas a true market observer tempers tangibles with judgement and experience. Anyhow thats my two cents and trust me i have made plently of cents and sense over the years. Now if you're a true trader contact me I'd like to discuss opportunities upcoming. No bull just traders talking. Regards, Leslie
A
au959
once again, just to clear up some common misconceptions
1. there are many styles of trading, some with more of a quantitative focus and some with more of a qualitative focus
2. tibra is active across both types but relies heavily on technology and its quantitative abilities so we look for people who can work with this
3. people are not simply classified as quants or regular people, and to think you are either a quant or not is naive - there are plenty of people who can both pass our tests and show excellent judgement, nous, intuition, discipline, adaptability and creativity.
think of a simple example:
we require both quantitative ability and a range of other qualitative abilities
of the people who have the pure mathematical ability we require, maybe 10-20% have the personality, awareness, intuition, people skills and other traits above that should make them successful at tibra.
but only about 5% of applicants have the quantitative ability in the first place.
so, to deal with the many hundreds of applications we have at any one time, we start by screening with multiple maths tests.
then, we move on to interviews and other screening tools to look at the rest of the factors mentioned above.
all those people who talk about how the maths tests are pointless or not a true indicator are simply not thinking things through. they are simply the first steps. given the numbers of applicants we get, and the resources that go into training and supporting (not to mention funding and managing) traders, we ensure that we are thorough and that applicants meet all requirements, both quantitative and qualitative.
bottom line - it is not one or the other for tibra traders and their strategies, nor most other types of traders
math skills help, but are never the only factor
we have plenty of quants who can temper the tangibles with judgement and experience...
hope that helps
1. there are many styles of trading, some with more of a quantitative focus and some with more of a qualitative focus
2. tibra is active across both types but relies heavily on technology and its quantitative abilities so we look for people who can work with this
3. people are not simply classified as quants or regular people, and to think you are either a quant or not is naive - there are plenty of people who can both pass our tests and show excellent judgement, nous, intuition, discipline, adaptability and creativity.
think of a simple example:
we require both quantitative ability and a range of other qualitative abilities
of the people who have the pure mathematical ability we require, maybe 10-20% have the personality, awareness, intuition, people skills and other traits above that should make them successful at tibra.
but only about 5% of applicants have the quantitative ability in the first place.
so, to deal with the many hundreds of applications we have at any one time, we start by screening with multiple maths tests.
then, we move on to interviews and other screening tools to look at the rest of the factors mentioned above.
all those people who talk about how the maths tests are pointless or not a true indicator are simply not thinking things through. they are simply the first steps. given the numbers of applicants we get, and the resources that go into training and supporting (not to mention funding and managing) traders, we ensure that we are thorough and that applicants meet all requirements, both quantitative and qualitative.
bottom line - it is not one or the other for tibra traders and their strategies, nor most other types of traders
math skills help, but are never the only factor
we have plenty of quants who can temper the tangibles with judgement and experience...
hope that helps
wolfefx
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Yes thank you for the clarification., I am an old school trader, started in the early 90s with a bank and haven't really stopped. Who are you clearing with?? I may be able to assist you in that area.
Regards, Leslie
Scotty2Cues
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Are Tibra recruiting in London? (didnt think they were at the mo) What do they pay trainees?
I think being good at maths is very important and the tests spot the talent. Shows that you have quick calculating abilities, pattern recognising etc etc
I think being good at maths is very important and the tests spot the talent. Shows that you have quick calculating abilities, pattern recognising etc etc
Does anyone know what the bonuses are like in tibra?
Every1 goes on about the 60k starting salary but as a trader surely the most impotant thing is your p/l and your ability to take on risk.
Are they merely attracting the brightest with their bumper salary, only for them to find out when they get there that their bonuses are nowhere near as much as their peers in IB?
Every1 goes on about the 60k starting salary but as a trader surely the most impotant thing is your p/l and your ability to take on risk.
Are they merely attracting the brightest with their bumper salary, only for them to find out when they get there that their bonuses are nowhere near as much as their peers in IB?
i am very much interested in it, kindly send me more info at [email protected], i am a index spread trader with 5+ yrs of experience .
qweasd2009
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Did anyone receive job offer from tibra for 2010 intake? I went through the last stage of assessment in march and interviews and was told trainee traders start to work from september. They also told me in late April that i was among their top 10 candidates but no update was given since then.
The same thing happened to one of my friend who applied at tibra too last year, received no updates for months and finally gave up. There are rumour that tibra management think they have a tight budget so they can not afford for new traders.
The same thing happened to one of my friend who applied at tibra too last year, received no updates for months and finally gave up. There are rumour that tibra management think they have a tight budget so they can not afford for new traders.
Re: suspicious "Traders Wanted - The Tibra Group" no Imressum , no name, ...
As someone with 700-odd posts on this forum, I'm incredibly surprised that you think Tibra is suspicious in any way. What are you implying - that we don't exist? :cheesy:
* Impressum - I didn't know what an impressum was until five minutes ago (thanks Wikipedia!). Tibra is not a German company, so I don't understand why you would expect one.
* No name - What do you mean?
* No director - False - I used to be one of them!
* No president - Correct. The titles of "president"and "vice president" are not used at Tibra. We're an Australian company - not American - which might have something to do with our choice of titles 😉
As someone with 700-odd posts on this forum, I'm incredibly surprised that you think Tibra is suspicious in any way. What are you implying - that we don't exist? :cheesy:
* Impressum - I didn't know what an impressum was until five minutes ago (thanks Wikipedia!). Tibra is not a German company, so I don't understand why you would expect one.
* No name - What do you mean?
* No director - False - I used to be one of them!
* No president - Correct. The titles of "president"and "vice president" are not used at Tibra. We're an Australian company - not American - which might have something to do with our choice of titles 😉
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As mentioned in a parallel thread, the rumours are unfounded. We continue to hire - and have hired - several trainees in 2010.
Have you contacted our HR department to check on the progress? Feel free to send me a PM with the details ...
Cheers!
I've just had a chat to HR, and I'm told all graduate positions have been filled for this period in both locations. Check back in a couple of months!
That said, we are always open to accepting experienced traders - the email addresses to submit your resume to are on the website as well:
http://fsr.cvmailuk.com/tibracareers/main.cfm
There are only so many rookies you can train at once 😉
thetrendfollower
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roohif said:
Hi roohif,
I'm keen to hear more about your offer to experienced traders (with a track record).
What are you commissions like for US equities and what other markets do you offer?
How must buying power do you give?
How is the stucture with salary/pay-outs/bonuses?
I'm struggling to see why profitable experienced traders would join your firm because as was mentioned previously, your bonuses are pooled then shared across all traders instead of each trader eating what they kill. While its nice for your fresh outta college newbies to be getting a fat bonus, whats in it for the big hitters of the firm?
Apologies if this comes across as harsh but I'm honestly just curious. You said your big earners don't tend to jump ship to other firms and for this to happen you must give them a bit extra on the side surely.
Perhaps PM me if you like.
Thanks,
Nizar.