Traders earnings

[ridgeback]

Why don't you monitor trader earnings per month? That would be more useful and relative would it not? I've just been looking on hall of fame and trying to work out if Darwinex pays more than the minimum wage. Take SYO out as it is the whale and potential black hole of the business and what is left?

So ranking based on trader earnings per month and running total? Would that be interesting and shine a light on what is really happening versus what the blurb tells us?

Just a thought, don't want to prod any sensitive souls on T2W..
😇

 

[Muiris]

Why don't you monitor trader earnings per month? That would be more useful and relative would it not? I've just been looking on hall of fame and trying to work out if Darwinex pays more than the minimum wage. Take SYO out as it is the whale and potential black hole of the business and what is left?

So ranking based on trader earnings per month and running total? Would that be interesting and shine a light on what is really happening versus what the blurb tells us?

Just a thought, don't want to prod any sensitive souls on T2W..
😇

set up a page and YOU do it.

 

[ridgeback]

set up a page and YOU do it.

No need to shout... chill out sweetiepie.

So last 12 month payout to the top ten traders:

In Euro

SYO 70k
Finbou 37k
High Five 0.055k (55 euros not thousands)
VPS Entry 0.009 (9 euros not thousands)
Oak Ladder 12k

OK so I've stopped at the top five as this doesn't add up. Where are the payouts?

Am I looking at the right page for this info as this feels wrong?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

High Five 0.055k (55 euros not thousands)
VPS Entry 0.009 (9 euros not thousands)

These are dead heroes, their earnings are pretty far in the past.

Am I looking at the right page for this info as this feels wrong?

If you want to find the heroes of the present with decent earnings for last 12 months it is better to order darwins by AUM or n of investors, you will find UYZ , JTL TRO ...

 

[Muiris]

These are dead heroes, their earnings are pretty far in the past.

If you want to find the heroes of the present with decent earnings for last 12 months it is better to order darwins by AUM or n of investors, you will find UYZ , JTL TRO ...

how much tax did you have to pay on your winnings cavaliere?

 

[Muiris]

No need to shout... chill out sweetiepie.

So last 12 month payout to the top ten traders:

In Euro

SYO 70k
Finbou 37k
High Five 0.055k (55 euros not thousands)
VPS Entry 0.009 (9 euros not thousands)
Oak Ladder 12k

OK so I've stopped at the top five as this doesn't add up. Where are the payouts?

Am I looking at the right page for this info as this feels wrong?

basically , you have to be a 1 in ten thousand hero to get a similar payment to a midlevel engineer in UK

 

[CavaliereVerde]

It depends on your existing income, I paid ~50% .

 

[FXforfun]

Where are the payouts?

I have checked the Hall of Fame and did a simple exercice. Just looked at the historical payouts and this is what you'll find out:

#Darwins got >2,5K in their entire history: 192
#Darwins got >10K: 77
#Darwins got > 50K: 10
#Darwins got >300K: 1 -> SYO

Conclusion, again, is that winning money with trading is f****** hard
Trading for a living... Well, judge for yourself but in my opinion there is an only one who could trade for a living up to now in Darwinex (unless some others are living from the performance of their own capital)

Discouraging? No, just reallistic

The discouraging is when I was talking face to face to a group of people. Real crypto traders. Their trading is not like ours. They just search for the good cryptos and hold them for weeks, even months. Ok, they were discussing if this year would make a x2, x5, x10,.... while my goals are +10%, +15%, +20%,...

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Optimistic case: alpha exists and 1 in ten thousand has it.

Pessimistic case: there is no alpha, market is efficient, what we see is only luck, trading is a waste of time.

 

[FXforfun]

I would say the Pesimistic case is quite discouraging
I'm confident market is not efficient. That's another topic but there are quite evidences.

Maybe there is a third option. Darwinex problem is lack of alpha. There was a survey somewhere on this forum, I've always been convinced about that. So, alpha is a rare gift and Darwinex is not attracting talent enough.

However there are more than a handful of good Darwins. Now, it raises a new question. Is Darwinex attracting capital enough?

 

[ridgeback]

I have checked the Hall of Fame and did a simple exercice. Just looked at the historical payouts and this is what you'll find out:

#Darwins got >2,5K in their entire history: 192
#Darwins got >10K: 77
#Darwins got > 50K: 10
#Darwins got >300K: 1 -> SYO

Conclusion, again, is that winning money with trading is f****** hard
Trading for a living... Well, judge for yourself but in my opinion there is an only one who could trade for a living up to now in Darwinex (unless some others are living from the performance of their own capital)

Discouraging? No, just reallistic

The discouraging is when I was talking face to face to a group of people. Real crypto traders. Their trading is not like ours. They just search for the good cryptos and hold them for weeks, even months. Ok, they were discussing if this year would make a x2, x5, x10,.... while my goals are +10%, +15%, +20%,...

Thank you for the good post.

So it seems there is a real issue about funding traders, almost like this isn’t real funding at all, taking away the smoke and mirrors they really aren’t paying anything notable. Reason I say this is I’ve watched a few videos from the firm making promises to find talent and change life’s etc, except by implementing their own algos they actually manipulate the traders talent/lack of talent. So why is that and all this talk of a track record? This is fake track record manipulation is it not?
So looking at these numbers found by FXforfun how can this Darwin defend themselves when they clearly have some (or had) good traders on their book but haven’t paid them anything?
I know this seems like I have an agenda against Darwinex but I haven’t. I just don’t like fake s!@t which this seems like it is? It could be Darwinex or any other broker.
I don’t trade with them but AXI do a similar thing but pay on your actual performance NOT their own interpretation of it.
Am I making any sense?

 

[FXforfun]

@ridgeback I think you are being too hard with Darwinex. In my opinion they are a decent broker, provide a good platform where investors can select traders and traders can get 15% commission of their investors profit. On top of that Darwinex itself acts as an investor with the DarwinIA contest. What else can you ask? To me that's more than enough.
Besides, there are no hidding figures, you can track who wins, compare Darwins. Everything is on you to analyze.
It would look that I'm under their payroll. I'm not. I'm a happy customer
But it's obvious that this business is hard as hell. It is as it is, beyond Darwinex or any broker. Sometimes I have the feeling (of course I'm not saying it's your case) that is easier to blame Darwinex/the broker/the market/the neighbour ... than admiting our own limitations

 

[ridgeback]

@ridgeback I think you are being too hard with Darwinex. In my opinion they are a decent broker, provide a good platform where investors can select traders and traders can get 15% commission of their investors profit. On top of that Darwinex itself acts as an investor with the DarwinIA contest. What else can you ask? To me that's more than enough.
Besides, there are no hidding figures, you can track who wins, compare Darwins. Everything is on you to analyze.
It would look that I'm under their payroll. I'm not. I'm a happy customer
But it's obvious that this business is hard as hell. It is as it is, beyond Darwinex or any broker. Sometimes I have the feeling (of course I'm not saying it's your case) that is easier to blame Darwinex/the broker/the market/the neighbour ... than admiting our own limitations

Yes this is the hardest business to survive and thrive in. I’ve worked hard for years and consider myself a survivor in this field although I have the scars to prove it. It’s worth it though.
Perhaps I am being too hard on them and actually it is from an investors view, (I have been funded for a long time from various sources directly as a trader so don’t actually need them or FTMO or MFF etc for funds). I was looking for alternatives for risk mitigation spreading some equity about.
Most folks I know in the business will only let you loose with their money with a max drawdown (normally under 15%) and a Sharpe ratio above 1.75 or 2. A return above 20% and split about 20% as a fee but sometimes a lot more over a shorter period.
Darwinex maybe a good broker and perhaps should recognise that as their strength rather than pretend to not to be a broker?
As an investor they seem adrift with quite a few loose ends in their offering that need sorting out.
Keep it simple for traders, don’t try to spin them and the good ones will come. As for investors I can’t really see it, especially charging a rate when I can’t actually see what a trader is doing?
It’s very simple and basic metrics that need to be transparent for both trader and investors but it just smells a bit off….

 

[ridgeback]

On their site they quote $3.9 million paid out and on the same page $2.8 million paid out, well which one is it? Quite a big chunk…
Also they quote Euros in the hall of fame and not $
It’s this kind of stuff makes you wonder, and then they talk about “notional” allocation? So this isn’t real is it and they can choke your metrics if you are making returns so they don’t pay you. I mean if it is notional then they aren’t actually backing you are they? You win they lose? The notional is actually a bucket!
Until they show audited accounts of payouts then it’s make believe.

 

[QAVinversion]

You have all the information at your disposal, it's really not worth answering.

 

[FXforfun]

The discouraging is when I was talking face to face to a group of people. Real crypto traders. Their trading is not like ours. They just search for the good cryptos and hold them for weeks, even months. Ok, they were discussing if this year would make a x2, x5, x10,.... while my goals are +10%, +15%, +20%,...

Last month I was "complaining" because some successful cripto traders were killing with earnings of hundreds %

Well, once again common sense set its rules. Last week any shitcoin dropped between 85% to 95%. I would like to see those cripto traders who looked like genius how much are they losing in case they didn't wipped out their acount and still are in the game. I've asked, no answer. Unfortunatelly can't check as if we could follow a Darwin.

Indeed criptos are a good lesson in many many views. Trading is one of them. Watch and learn