Trader looking for capital

[delzako]

Hi, I hope this isn't the wrong place to post... but... I have a consistently profitable strategy which I've backtested thoroughly, papertraded for a year and traded live this year. I'm averaging about 20% per month, but due to my financial situation I can't compound and need to take out all profits for living expenses (it is a small account).

This puts me under some pressure to perform, and I am reluctant to accepting money from family or friends for two reasons: it would not be big enough to help me move forward but put unnecessary stress on me and second I think I could have devastating effects on my personal relationships if things didn't go as planned.

I could really use some advice on how to get someone to back me or somehow help me get access to bigger funds. I have a verifiable track record and noticed there are people on this site hiring traders, but I prefer to trade from home instead of working prop.

I'd really appreciate it if you could give me some tips or advice... either here or by PM...

 

[Rossini]

What kind of strategy is it? How many trades per week? How much screen time? 20% per month is a lot, what kind of risk do you take to make that? Need more information to make a helpful comment really.

 

[delzako]

What kind of strategy is it? How many trades per week? How much screen time? 20% per month is a lot, what kind of risk do you take to make that? Need more information to make a helpful comment really.

Strategy: discretionary, intraday, trend-following
Trades: 2-5 per day per instrument (FX and futures)
Screen time: 3 hours in morning (European session), 3 hours in afternoon (US session)
Risk: 1-2% per trade

Average is 20-30% per month, worst month is breakeven (but I only traded 2 weeks then), no losing months yet since I started live.

 

[Rossini]

Thats impressive. Have you considered working part time, trading part time and then building your account through compounding? Thats assuming you can afford to live from only working part time?

 

[delzako]

Thats impressive. Have you considered working part time, trading part time and then building your account through compounding? Thats assuming you can afford to live from only working part time?

Yes I have... but because I trade morning & afternoon and if I work half-time I'd probably need to leave positions open unmonitored during news and all sort of events... I don't like the thought & risk of that. Also, it's not that easy finding a part time job if you have a hole in your cv, having to explain what you've been doing all this time, and you can't really find a high paid part-time job... unless you go for part time labour jobs which work in shifts, but then shift work includes weeks where I miss the complete US session i

 

[trendie]

Hi, I hope this isn't the wrong place to post... but... I have a consistently profitable strategy which I've backtested thoroughly, papertraded for a year and traded live this year. I'm averaging about 20% per month, but due to my financial situation I can't compound and need to take out all profits for living expenses (it is a small account).

This puts me under some pressure to perform, and I am reluctant to accepting money from family or friends for two reasons: it would not be big enough to help me move forward but put unnecessary stress on me and second I think I could have devastating effects on my personal relationships if things didn't go as planned.

I could really use some advice on how to get someone to back me or somehow help me get access to bigger funds. I have a verifiable track record and noticed there are people on this site hiring traders, but I prefer to trade from home instead of working prop.

I'd really appreciate it if you could give me some tips or advice... either here or by PM...

Have you traded real money yet? Its a different psychology entirely to demo.

Have you traded this real-time? Seeing perfect entries/exits in hindsight on a chart is different to doing it real-time, as your mind has too much time to second-guess yourself out of good positions, irrespective of how good all your rules say.

Why do you feel that trading a strangers money would be any less stressful than trading families money, and why would losing strangers money would be any less devastating than losing families money?

There are some pretty scary emotional/psychological issues over and above just buying/selling that will come into play.

Hope it works out for you. Your stats seem to mirror mine, except for the 20% a month. Good luck, but think about the emotional turmoil of trading size as well.

 

[mb325]

He said he traded live this year. What about building up your track record of ~20% a month and then applying to a prop firm? I'm sure they won't mind a hole in your CV if you can show them 20%/month for 2 years or whatever.

 

[delzako]

Have you traded real money yet? Its a different psychology entirely to demo.

Have you traded this real-time? Seeing perfect entries/exits in hindsight on a chart is different to doing it real-time, as your mind has too much time to second-guess yourself out of good positions, irrespective of how good all your rules say.

Why do you feel that trading a strangers money would be any less stressful than trading families money, and why would losing strangers money would be any less devastating than losing families money?

There are some pretty scary emotional/psychological issues over and above just buying/selling that will come into play.

Hope it works out for you. Your stats seem to mirror mine, except for the 20% a month. Good luck, but think about the emotional turmoil of trading size as well.

Everything is real-time, live trading, no demo or papertrading.

Trading friends or families money is much more stressful, if something went wrong I would forever be carrying the stigma of the person who lost money.

I don't have issues with trading size...rather the opposite: I prefer to make 5% on a big account, then having to make 20% on a small account, just to cover my living expenses.

 

[arabianights]

Take $25 less out every month. You can find these savings somewhere. And shortly at your 20% will compound and you'll be a trillionaire...

 

[delzako]

Take $25 less out every month. You can find these savings somewhere. And shortly at your 20% will compound and you'll be a trillionaire...

And if I stop eating & drinking I can save another £150, but I still won't be able to compound anything worth mentioning

 

[gamma]

Trading friends or families money is much more stressful, if something went wrong I would forever be carrying the stigma of the person who lost money.

So you think its fine to risk a stranger's money, as you would not have day to day contact with them, and don't have to face them.

If you are that sure of your ablities, then simply take a loan, paying the interest should not be a problem, if you can achieve 20% a month.

I don't have issues with trading size...rather the opposite: I prefer to make 5% on a big account

No one will be happy with a 5% return a month, on a large outlay also taking into consideration, that this small return, will have to be split with you, with the investor taking all the risk and you none.
I really don't think you will find any investors.
You are better of taking the loan option.

 

[robster970]

Quite some time ago, I was in a fortunate position to be running my own company that was generally doing ok. I'd grafted hard to get the business in good shape.

Frequently, people would ask me whether I'd be interested in investing their own businesses, mainly start-ups in return for equity. The conversation would freuquently go like this:

Me: So why would you like me to invest?
ANO: Because I don't have enough capital to grow the business
Me: How much have you invested yourself?
ANO: {Generally a small amount}
Me: Do you have any savings?
ANO: Not that I would want to use.
Me: Have you approached a bank, friends or family for money?
ANO: No, I don't want to be on the hook for the money with these people.
Me: What about using your house/assets as security against a loan?
ANO: I don't want to put my house at risk.
Me: So why do you think it is reasonable to ask me for money and take all the risk but not take any of the risk yourself?
ANO: {Sound of penny dropping}

Basically, if you find somebody to invest in you but you won't take any of the risk yourself, then good luck. I think you'll be unlikely to find sensible investors particularly as you're not prepared to stick your own neck out.

 

[delzako]

So you think its fine to risk a stranger's money, as you would not have day to day contact with them, and don't have to face them..

Please don't turn my words around into something I didn't say.
If you don't understand why trading money for a friend or relative brings on a lot more pressure than for a stranger, ask someone else to explain...

If you are that sure of your ablities, then simply take a loan, paying the interest should not be a problem, if you can achieve 20% a month.

No one will be happy with a 5% return a month, on a large outlay also taking into consideration, that this small return, will have to be split with you, with the investor taking all the risk and you none.
I really don't think you will find any investors.
You are better of taking the loan option.

What does it mean "forum guide"? No one in the world of investing is looking for 20% per month consistently an a big account, because it means a lot more risk in terms of absolute money.

Thanks for your suggestions about the loan, but your negative attitude is not that constructive. Also, ever thought how you are going to get a loan, if you don't have a job?

 

[gamma]

Quite some time ago, I was in a fortunate position to be running my own company that was generally doing ok. I'd grafted hard to get the business in good shape.

Frequently, people would ask me whether I'd be interested in investing their own businesses, mainly start-ups in return for equity. The conversation would freuquently go like this:

Me: So why would you like me to invest?
ANO: Because I don't have enough capital to grow the business
Me: How much have you invested yourself?
ANO: {Generally a small amount}
Me: Do you have any savings?
ANO: Not that I would want to use.
Me: Have you approached a bank, friends or family for money?
ANO: No, I don't want to be on the hook for the money with these people.
Me: What about using your house/assets as security against a loan?
ANO: I don't want to put my house at risk.
Me: So why do you think it is reasonable to ask me for money and take all the risk but not take any of the risk yourself?
ANO: {Sound of penny dropping}

Basically, if you find somebody to invest in you but you won't take any of the risk yourself, then good luck. I think you'll be unlikely to find sensible investors particularly as you're not prepared to stick your own neck out.

Very well summised robster,
Also very similiar to the questions put by Peter Jones on Dragons Den,
Any of the participants who used a similiar approach to the above did not have a hope in hell of raising any funds and in some cases were actually laughed out of the interview.

 

[Black Swan]

I'm with Robster on this and I also guess the O.P. is also fishing for investment, no doubt he's had a couple of pms from guys ready to 'scrutinise' his system. I've gotta say if you're that committed and convinced in your system/ability you'd find the cash, take a short term loan, pawn your goods to raise the seed capital...you'd do whatever it took. Bottom line is you're not that committed or sure, which is why you'd rather risk other folks' money...you've no chance...
And on the subject of how much you need, ffs, you only need a few grand in order to kick on, if you can't find that/raise that then you're that '2 bob' you're not worth investing in...

 

[virtuos0]

So you think its fine to risk a stranger's money, as you would not have day to day contact with them, and don't have to face them.

If you are that sure of your ablities, then simply take a loan, paying the interest should not be a problem, if you can achieve 20% a month.



No one will be happy with a 5% return a month, on a large outlay also taking into consideration, that this small return, will have to be split with you, with the investor taking all the risk and you none.
I really don't think you will find any investors.
You are better of taking the loan option.

No one will be happy with a return of 5% a month?!

 

[delzako]

Frequently, people would ask me whether I'd be interested in investing their own businesses, mainly start-ups in return for equity. The conversation would freuquently go like this:

Me: So why would you like me to invest?
ANO: Because I don't have enough capital to grow the business
Me: How much have you invested yourself?
ANO: {Generally a small amount}
Me: Do you have any savings?
ANO: Not that I would want to use.
Me: Have you approached a bank, friends or family for money?
ANO: No, I don't want to be on the hook for the money with these people.
Me: What about using your house/assets as security against a loan?
ANO: I don't want to put my house at risk.
Me: So why do you think it is reasonable to ask me for money and take all the risk but not take any of the risk yourself?
ANO: {Sound of penny dropping}

Basically, if you find somebody to invest in you but you won't take any of the risk yourself, then good luck. I think you'll be unlikely to find sensible investors particularly as you're not prepared to stick your own neck out.

Nicely put, but a generalization which says nothing about my situation, which you clearly have not taken the time to inquire about.

First of all, I don't own a house. Second I don't have any savings. Third, if I had, I would put them in my trading account straight away, because it would sure be lot more comfortable than having to live of the profits each month, unable to compound much.

Fourth, taking out a loan is not going to happen if you can't provide some sort of fixed income (from a daytime job), which clearly I don't have as I'm trading.

As for willing to stick my neck out, sure I'll do that.
Here is my offer: I'm prepared to be liable (as in: have to pay back) any losses incurred in the first month, if someone lets me trade an account of several hundred K and is willing to split the profits 50/50 minimum (for the first month).

 

[robster970]

Here is my offer: I'm prepared to be liable (as in: have to pay back) any losses incurred in the first month, if someone lets me trade an account of several hundred K and is willing to split the profits 50/50 minimum (for the first month).

Making you bankrupt in the event of failure doesn't give investors their money back. I genuinely think you'll struggle to find anyone as you're too high risk.

I wish you well for the future and hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[zupcon]

Building some type of semi audited track record through a service such as Collective 2 might help.

 

[delzako]

Making you bankrupt in the event of failure doesn't give investors their money back. I genuinely think you'll struggle to find anyone as you're too high risk.

Would you care to explain a bit more, why I am "too high risk"?