The Mycroft Algoman Thread

[MrBrilliant]

T2W Edit
Please note the original thread started by MrBrilliant entitled 'Do SB companies share customer information?' may be found here

This thread is split from the original at the point Mycroft Algoman posted his first reply as it went off on a severe tangent at that point. It's been given a new title to reflect the focus of discussion.

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I had an account at IG Index and Capital Spreads... both were dormant for about 4 months. Just last week I thought I'd have a go at IG Index again so I topped up my account by a couple hundred and placed a bet.

The SAME DAY, I get a call from Capital Spreads (whom I hadn't heard from since I'd opened my accounts months before) from an "account manager" trying to persuade me to deposit "just £300 to £1000" in order to receive "personal trading advice".

I imagine like any slightly shady business they are likely to share "sucker lists" and "red flag" lists amongst themselves...

Anybody have any experience with that?

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

I had an account at IG Index and Capital Spreads... both were dormant for about 4 months. Just last week I thought I'd have a go at IG Index again so I topped up my account by a couple hundred and placed a bet.

The SAME DAY, I get a call from Capital Spreads (whom I hadn't heard from since I'd opened my accounts months before) from an "account manager" trying to persuade me to deposit "just £300 to £1000" in order to receive "personal trading advice".

I imagine like any slightly shady business they are likely to share "sucker lists" and "red flag" lists amongst themselves...

Anybody have any experience with that?

What you have 'seen' is the SBBs own interboard transaction program in action, effectively the SBBs collate risk across their platforms, so your presence will have been notified across all the participating boards.

This same 'connection' is used by the participating boards to 'suppress' prices in one against the rest to gain financial advantage for the board at your cost.

No sucker list as such... just a list... everyone is a potential sucker, you haven't been and never were 'singled out'...

 

[Hate2Lose]

I had an account at IG Index and Capital Spreads... both were dormant for about 4 months. Just last week I thought I'd have a go at IG Index again so I topped up my account by a couple hundred and placed a bet.

The SAME DAY, I get a call from Capital Spreads (whom I hadn't heard from since I'd opened my accounts months before) from an "account manager" trying to persuade me to deposit "just £300 to £1000" in order to receive "personal trading advice".

I imagine like any slightly shady business they are likely to share "sucker lists" and "red flag" lists amongst themselves...

Anybody have any experience with that?

Hi,

Despite me being a huge cynic, I can’t for one minute believe this happens! I’d put it more down to coincidence rather than anything else!

IG and capital spreads are competitors so it just doesn’t make sense for them to share your details with each other!

Good luck trading

 

[MrBrilliant]

What you have 'seen' is the SBBs own interboard transaction program in action, effectively the SBBs collate risk across their platforms, so your presence will have been notified across all the participating boards.

This same 'connection' is used by the participating boards to 'suppress' prices in one against the rest to gain financial advantage for the board at your cost.

No sucker list as such... just a list... everyone is a potential sucker, you haven't been and never were 'singled out'...

This is fascinating... How does this interboard transaction program work? So do spread-betting companies see trades that you've done on other platforms for example?

 

[WR1]

Looks dubious - as there are nt any coincidences in life (well not many)

i don't often use IG anymore - but the last time i logged in for only a few minutes just to look at the spreads, i then had 3 calls in the wk from one of their representatives on the answer phone
it all looks a bit desperate

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

it all looks a bit desperate

There is an elevated level of desperation within the entire industry, the algo programs are set too fiercely and people are leaving in droves as the word gets 'round that you are not on a level playing field, it never was particularly level but it is now skewed horrendously, the boards are running 12-15 point counter-positions to the true position using micro-crashes as cover, that is the true measure of their desperation...

Their days are numbered if this continues for too long.

Bringing micro-second crashes into the indices has meant that even if the fool punter argues, their can be found split second price fluctuations to cover any idea (to those not wise enough to grasp the reality) of sharp practice.

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

This is fascinating... How does this interboard transaction program work? So do spread-betting companies see trades that you've done on other platforms for example?

It is a program, no-one you ever get to speak to at any board will have seen this in action, just as at work you may not see something at the end of phone happen that you've given the instruction to to...

It is an arms length, you remain anonymous until your name comes up on your callers "call this number now" list...

All transactions are collated across the boards and a path selected that culls the greatest amount for the boards/markets to add to their coffers.

The large amounts in our single transactions stand out like beacons on a dark night and the swarm of algos pick their way through making hay at every twist and turn.

The 'market' the big players split deals into $2500 snippets, you wade into this sea, this very shallow sea with a at the minimum of £1pp of $25,000... bet more and you sick out more, if you CFD you can try incrementally smaller amounts but you can't 'mechanise' these transactions, they are laborious.

A more even playing field would be if all positions were broken by the board to 'average' sized but multiple high-speed placements (just as the big-boys do) but that would mean that 50% would make money and that is simply not profitable for the boards.

There has to be a 48-1 (2.5% winners) ratio to maintain the profits and keep people in work in the industry.

At the moment the ratio is closer to 60-1 (1.6% winners) and your money is as huge risk as a result.

 

[Purple Brain]

What you have 'seen' is the SBBs own interboard transaction program in action, effectively the SBBs collate risk across their platforms, so your presence will have been notified across all the participating boards.

This same 'connection' is used by the participating boards to 'suppress' prices in one against the rest to gain financial advantage for the board at your cost.

No sucker list as such... just a list... everyone is a potential sucker, you haven't been and never were 'singled out'...

I thought Moriarty had done for you. LOL. As annoying as many seem to find you (probably their fault for taking you seriously), your subtly disguised delusions are a rich source of humorous enjoyment even to a complete novice such as myself.

I just hope you can keep it civil this time.

 

[Purple Brain]

This is fascinating... How does this interboard transaction program work? So do spread-betting companies see trades that you've done on other platforms for example?

Mr.Brilliant it is safe to discount any serious or useful information in Mycroft's posts - he is an arch-Jester and a total waster of energy & time. If you're on a serious mission to improve your trading or get a handle on the industry look elsewhere, but he is enormous fun if you have the time to spare and are prepared to fritter it away on silliness. Which we all do from time to time of course.

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

I thought Moriarty had done for you. LOL. As annoying as many seem to find you (probably their fault for taking you seriously), your subtly disguised delusions are a rich source of humorous enjoyment even to a complete novice such as myself.

I just hope you can keep it civil this time.

I only retail insults, trouble is... it takes intellect to fully realise this.

It is not delusional to articulate what we have been found to be correct.

To find anything I write 'amusing' is delusional, there is no humour in it.

Only the very stupid will laugh when they cannot muster a proper reasoned response to a proposition.

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

Mr.Brilliant it is safe to discount any serious or useful information in Mycroft's posts - he is an arch-Jester and a total waster of energy & time. If you're on a serious mission to improve your trading or get a handle on the industry look elsewhere, but he is enormous fun if you have the time to spare and are prepared to fritter it away on silliness. Which we all do from time to time of course.

Shill?

You seem to constantly try the 'Move along, nothing to see here' tack in your posts... the accusation of shill seems very redolent for such behaviour.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[timsk]

Only the very stupid will laugh when they cannot muster a proper reasoned response to a proposition.

Hi MA,
Well, I'm not laughing. But neither am I able to "muster a proper reasoned response to a proposition" because, to me, most of what you write is incomprehensible. Now, by my own admission, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box but, equally, I'm not the bluntest either. If I don't have a clue what on earth you're going on about then, likely as not, a high percentage of fellow members won't either. If you can't outline your ideas in a simple and clear way, then I suggest you ought not be too surprised when members challenge you and accuse you of deliberately trying to obfuscate and mislead - presumably for your own amusement.

In the event that you are actually trying to make a serious point and offer fresh insights into how the spread betting industry works - please try harder to present your ideas in a way that can be easily understood. A lot harder!

Tim.

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

Hi MA,
Well, I'm not laughing. But neither am I able to "muster a proper reasoned response to a proposition" because, to me, most of what you write is incomprehensible. Now, by my own admission, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box but, equally, I'm not the bluntest either. If I don't have a clue what on earth you're going on about then, likely as not, a high percentage of fellow members won't either. If you can't outline your ideas in a simple and clear way, then I suggest you ought not be too surprised when members challenge you and accuse you of deliberately trying to obfuscate and mislead - presumably for your own amusement.

In the event that you are actually trying to make a serious point and offer fresh insights into how the spread betting industry works - please try harder to present your ideas in a way that can be easily understood. A lot harder!

Tim.

OK, I'll give it another go.

The OP asked if the boards shared info, citing a 'coincidence' of his return and calls from a rival.

I can tell him (and anyone reading) that it is not a coincidence at all.

When you add funds you become active, an alert is raised by the software (I write this stuff!) if you start trading, your 'bet' is first associated with a board and user ID, but only once... after that it is collated not by name, that is no longer of consequence, it is collated and a route (a way of moving) is picked that garners the greatest profit for the boards, the boards pay for this service to the algo providers.

The greatest difficulty people face is that the average person can only see the market in a one dimensional, pos/neg, way and it does take a bit of a paradigm shift to realise that the market is in fact 2 dimensional and depth is now more the more important dimension.

So in answer to the OPs question, the answer is a resounding YES.

Does this have consequences?

Again, the answer is a resounding YES.

I try to explain the consequences as often as I can, but the entire edifice is complex, fiendishly complex and as a result neither very readable and easily guffawed at as a result.

I have tried to explain the manner of routes and way-points, but it does require an fair degree of intrinsic intellect to grasp even that, the most basic, concept of market movement.

 

[timsk]

OK, I'll give it another go.

Sorry MA, I'm just as confused as ever!

By 'board', do you mean spread betting (SB) provider? So, using your terminology, IG Index is a 'board', as are ETX Capital etc., etc?

If I've understood you correctly, you appear to be suggesting that all the SB providers/boards pay to register each client's bet on some central hub where an unknown third party can implement an algorithm which then enables each provider/board to extract the maximum profit from their respective clients. It's the central hub with the clever algo' that is the second dimension that you refer to - which most/all SB clients don't even realise exists. Have I understood the basic kernel of your post correctly?
Tim.

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

Boards = means of placing a bet, Contracting for Difference and any other provider interface that allows the general public to "play the stock market".

I have mentioned the manner in which boards enter into this arrangement before, you have to remove the idea that this is in some way 'optional' it is no longer optional, for the Main speculative indices it is essential.

So yes, it is paid for but not specifically as in buying Cillit Bang! More the way in which most people pay tax via the PAYE system, it is part of the deal and not an option.

The Algorithm at one end is in constant communication with the main algorithmic mainframe, it again is an intrinsic part of the interface with the market.

This is NOT the depth or second dimension I refer to.

The second dimension is the depth of the trade commitment figure, along with the position a gross figure is formed (£1pp on the DJI gives a gross figure of circa £15,000 or 25k dollars and upwards obviously) this gross figure is the one the algorithm seeks, it is a signature that denotes that this is not an algorithmic trade and has limited speed and movement within the market.

it is a 'way-point' a marker if you will, a marker about which the algorithm can form a route through taking as much profit on the way as it can, the boards don't really have too much say in how 'vicious' or 'aggressive' the algos set about their task, knowing your 'stop' is a boon to them and if you attempt to put it beyond normal activity parameters the micro-cuts can still get you if the market swarm takes that turn.

 

[neil]

Sorry MA, I'm just as confused as ever!

By 'board', do you mean spread betting (SB) provider? So, using your terminology, IG Index is a 'board', as are ETX Capital etc., etc?

If I've understood you correctly, you appear to be suggesting that all the SB providers/boards pay to register each client's bet on some central hub where an unknown third party can implement an algorithm which then enables each provider/board to extract the maximum profit from their respective clients. It's the central hub with the clever algo' that is the second dimension that you refer to - which most/all SB clients don't even realise exists. Have I understood the basic kernel of your post correctly?
Tim.

Timsk,
The guy sits at a rough wooden desk,illuminated by half a smoke blackened candle, turning the dog eared pages of a dusty, orange juice stained, theosaurus in the hope of putting together enough "why use one simple word when ten complex ones' will do" in the vain hope that the readers of T2W will be duped into thinking that the resulting collection of words will appear as a reasoned discourse on trading. Sadly, his botched attempts at linguistic clarity, have merely resulted in causing this forum to rock with laughter. But I am sure all thank him for brightening the day of the readers here

 

[Mycroft Algoman]

Timsk,
The guy sits at a rough wooden desk,illuminated by half a smoke blackened candle, turning the dog eared pages of a dusty, orange juice stained, theosaurus in the hope of putting together enough "why use one simple word when ten complex ones' will do" in the vain hope that the readers of T2W will be duped into thinking that the resulting collection of words will appear as a reasoned discourse on trading. Sadly, his botched attempts at linguistic clarity, have merely resulted in causing this forum to rock with laughter. But I am sure all thank him for brightening the day of the readers here

Any attempt to articulate pure maths in common language is going to be fraught with difficulties, I am sorry what I am trying to convey has left you with no lasting good.

I sit at a normal desk, by a normal lamp and don't have a Thesaurus (note the correct spelling).

This site still appears to me to be inhabited by people who, in the absence of understanding, think they should guffaw and giggle like schoolgirls in some flat-footed attempt to joke their way out of their embarrassment.

 

[neil]

Any attempt to articulate pure maths in common language is going to be fraught with difficulties, I am sorry what I am trying to convey has left you with no lasting good.

I sit at a normal desk, by a normal lamp and don't have a Thesaurus (note the correct spelling).

This site still appears to me to be inhabited by people who, in the absence of understanding, think they should guffaw and giggle like schoolgirls in some flat-footed attempt to joke their way out of their embarrassment.

Is that Walter or Mycroft replying

 

[Purple Brain]

I think Neil's attempt at introducing to us a previously unknown species should be applauded.

Theosaurus: A small-brained verbibore which suffered from shortness of breadth and delusions of possessing God-like qualities. Communicated by emitting random noise.

Thought to have become extinct voluntarily.

 

[Vasco da Banana]

Don't be modest, Algoman.