The Journey from the Basement

[SOCRATES]

It's nothing to do with your sub conscious although I can imagine how some people think of it that way which is in itself is a very strong clue

So what has it got to do with then ? What is this very stong clue ? And what is it you imagine ?

 

[SOCRATES]

Right, the time is now 1204 and as you have had all this time and choose not to substantiate your statements.

We have all waited a long time in the middle of a trading day and as you are not forthcoming, which serves to test both our patience and tolerance to interruptions with throwaway statements in the middle of very interesting discussions, we are now going to carry on.

Next time you will not be extended this courtesy as you patently display repeatedly you do not deserve it.

Returning to Rognavald's post above:~

The answer is that which that physical/psychosematic event demonstrates is the ability of the mind to
bring back to net present time an event stlll in net future time or in future time.

The subconscious mind is able to do this and the conscious mind has filtered it and presented it as a
thought. As this is not a deliberate action, its significance is overlooked.

 

[Rognvald]

NAZ had been looking at T&S, Vol, bids & offers and the chart and had seen theprice breaking from quite a tight range (14.49-17.43)and wider going a little further baqck. He had absorbed all the information that this offered as it happened and processed it somehwere, he saw the price declining and going for a while into freefall and knew this could not continue. Perhaps he was also wishing he had been short ( ) and at that certain point his mind said "Go long - this cannot continue"

Is it the group of traders who have not taken positions yet (after NAZ) who have the greatest power or the ones who are already committed. Those who are committed have made their statement and know that it is history as it has already played out. The subconscious mind is aware of these short term future statements about to be made.

As with driving the mechanical side becomes automatic. This leaves room for choice in how you approach the roundabout - u can see what is coming but the consequence is different depending on how far you can anticipate. The skilled driver "knows" that something else is coming. The skilled and experienced driver "knows" there is something coming around the next bend - this is subliminal processing of a myriad of factors that could not be consciously addressed. What perhaps is needed is the fostering of the conscious mind in programming as many relevancies as possible so that they become routine and after that the software (subconcious) acts on the information it is given

 

[firehorse]

He had absorbed all the information that this offered as it happened and processed it somehwere

I think what Socrates is trying to get at ... where exactly is the somewhere! How can you isolate it, develop it and bring it to the surface on command?

If the future event already exists in the future then the "somewhere" is in the future. The processing is the part of the mind that has reached forward in time, recognised / read / understand what has happened in the future, bring it back to the present, and present it as an intuitive feeling.

From the descriptions of the ideal trader persona, it appears that the experience of anxiety is the normal reaction of the "herd" which Naz has been able to "override". And even though there is the noise of the anxiety of the "herd" and he is still able to pick out the future event about to happen and sense when to place a trade.

It appears that if you are able to achieve the ideal trader persona, where emotion is just an unnecessary distraction and doesn't register on your radar, then signals from the future will be easier to pick up and your "intuition" will be even stronger ... and you won't suffer the stress of the anxiety!

It is a paradox that you need to detach yourself from money in order to have the best ability to make money. If you are in any way worried about "losing" the trade, that will put your decision making process off, because of the extra energy/effort being drawn into maintaining that emotion that is not towards picking up signals from the future. If you are able adopt a trading persona then "mechanically" it is just another trade with a certain probability, "futurology" it is just another test to see how well developed your skill is.

Paraphrasing from NLP (what little I know!), you never really lose, everything is valuable feedback, especially the losses, so worrying about maybe losing a trade is nonsense when looked at it from that perspective

Hope this is useful

 

[harryp]

If the future event already exists in the future then the "somewhere" is in the future. The processing is the part of the mind that has reached forward in time, recognised / read / understand what has happened in the future, bring it back to the present, and present it as an intuitive feeling.

How can the future event already exist ?

"what has happened in the future" ????

 

[SOCRATES]

I think what Socrates is trying to get at ... where exactly is the somewhere! How can you isolate it, develop it and bring it to the surface on command?

If the future event already exists in the future then the "somewhere" is in the future. The processing is the part of the mind that has reached forward in time, recognised / read / understand what has happened in the future, bring it back to the present, and present it as an intuitive feeling.

From the descriptions of the ideal trader persona, it appears that the experience of anxiety is the normal reaction of the "herd" which Naz has been able to "override". And even though there is the noise of the anxiety of the "herd" and he is still able to pick out the future event about to happen and sense when to place a trade.

It appears that if you are able to achieve the ideal trader persona, where emotion is just an unnecessary distraction and doesn't register on your radar, then signals from the future will be easier to pick up and your "intuition" will be even stronger ... and you won't suffer the stress of the anxiety!

It is a paradox that you need to detach yourself from money in order to have the best ability to make money. If you are in any way worried about "losing" the trade, that will put your decision making process off, because of the extra energy/effort being drawn into maintaining that emotion that is not towards picking up signals from the future. If you are able adopt a trading persona then "mechanically" it is just another trade with a certain probability, "futurology" it is just another test to see how well developed your skill is.

Paraphrasing from NLP (what little I know!), you never really lose, everything is valuable feedback, especially the losses, so worrying about maybe losing a trade is nonsense when looked at it from that perspective

Hope this is useful

This is excellent, eveybody.
You have hiit on the nail again, Firehorse.
I'm impressed.

 

[SOCRATES]

How can the future event already exist ?

"what has happened in the future" ????

Well, it is obvious to few of us.
If you cannot follow, you should not be even looking at this thread.
This is very advanced and obviously beyond your remit,
this is not our fault, but yours, so please do not ask silly questions.

 

[SOCRATES]

Ah yes, and A320, will you be so kind to explain the riddle that Barjon has with the Index, will you
unravel it for him as I am going to be very busy and can I therefore entrust you to do it, please.

 

[Finlayson]

there are some who believe that we create our future....that our doubt's , fears, beliefs, knowing's.. affect our future on a molecular level!, after all arent we just energy created from nothingness held by some force....this must be part of us.......'' it is the space between the bars which Holds the tiger''.

I know that I affect my world, that what I give out creates my world.......I know that I can swim!, some know they cannot, who is right. I wouldnt be so arrogant as to say I have any answers, I am just on my own path of learning, but I know I affect my future staying on purpose & detaching from the outcome.

Jay

 

[harryp]

Well, it is obvious to few of us.
If you cannot follow, you should not be even looking at this thread.
This is very advanced and obviously beyond your remit,
this is not our fault, but yours, so please do not ask silly questions.

This is not a silly question

If I see someone walking down the street I can with some certainty predict that the back foot will become the front foot etc. Does my ability to predict this have anything to do with my subconscious connecting with the future ?

Of course not. It's simply my experience which allows me to make this "prediction"

You might think that you know what firehose is trying to say but as long as he presents his ideas as he has done in para 2 it remains nonsensical

 

[firehorse]

How can the future event already exist ?

"what has happened in the future" ????

There is one theory of time (there are others!) whereby all time exists all at once.

If you can imagine time from the past to the present to the future as a long piece of string, then any particular time, is a just spot on the string. As we experience travelling through time, you are basically travelling along the piece of string. Therefore, the string exists, but you can only ever see the piece where you are at.

This model of time explains why future events already exist and future events (to us) have already happened. And if you have the ability, you can peer a little ahead on the piece of string/time to see what has already happened.

But does this mean that fate is predetermined?

No.

Wherever you do now can change the future and the past and the rest of the string / time will change !

That's right. That is not a typo. You can influence not only the future, but also the past!

THE FAR SIDE: OK, so prayer can work, but after the fact. . .?

There are plenty of studies around to suggest that prayer can quicken a
patient's recovery. If you accept the current non-quantum space/time
paradigm, this alone is a remarkable fact, and would suggest that the
space between us all is far from empty.

But Dr Larry Dossey, who researches the effects of prayer, is positing
an even more extraordinary theory: that prayer can also influence past
events. This suggests that you can intend (or pray) for a better
outcome for something whose outcome would appear to be determined - and
still influence it.

He quotes in support a study carried out by Leibovici, published in the
British Medical Journal in 2001 (BMJ, 2001; 323: 1450-1). Leibovici
enlisted 3393 patients who were prayed for between four and 10 years
later. While the mortality levels were similar in the group prayed for
and the one not prayed for, those who were prayed for actually left
hospital sooner - even though they were prayed for up to 10 years
later. (I know, it's hard to get your head around this. Imagine what
it's like trying to write it).

How can this be? Dossey suggests that we really don't know enough about
the way the universe functions, or our own consciousness, to answer
that. Physicists don't know how time operates, and they are equally
clueless about consciousness so "dismissing retroactive prayer, which
involves both, seems premature," says Dossey.

(Source: British Medical Journal, 2003; 327: 1465-8).

Wrap your head round that one!

If your model / understanding of the universe does not allow for this kind of theory then you will be much better served reading the more usual "technical indicator" threads as they will be more up your street.

Kindest regards

 

[harryp]

Alan

I'll spend some time looking at what you've just posted

It's just that I've always thought that events in the future WILL happen , not that they HAVE happened

 

[dc2000]

And obviously a way to silence the critics would be to provide a demonstration of the effectiveness of this futurology by providing indices movements hours or days ahead something that can not be done on level 2

We all know the mind is a powerfull and underestimated thing but without unequivocal proof that these extraordinary things can be done surely we are just debating what if's?

 

[firehorse]

This is not a silly question

If I see someone walking down the street I can with some certainty predict that the back foot will become the front foot etc. Does my ability to predict this have anything to do with my subconscious connecting with the future ?

Of course not. It's simply my experience which allows me to make this "prediction"

It is very probable that the back foot will become the front, unless they change their mind and turn around or trip over or whatever. That is a high probability exercise. It's not quite the same probability on whatever market you are trading on. To most people it is random and unpredictable.

You can continue to follow the your probability trading strategy / technique on the stock market where you have a probability of making a profitiable trade. And with correct reward/risk application and good money management you will be able to make money.

What Socrates is trying to teach here is the possibility of going beyond mechanical and probability trading

 

[Rognvald]

dc2000
You already said this ( #1230 )and did not come up with a valid response to what you were pointed to


"Senior Member


Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 137 Has there been a practical demonstration of this knowledge I can't seem to find one on this thread
__________________

* Nothing in this posting is intended as an invitation to trade*
*Get the EDGE in trading visit my homepage*
( #1231 )
Not on this thread. But check out 'Days of Stopping Out' under General Trading Chat. The futurology demo kicks in on page 2, post #23 at 2:20pm (24/05).

It's worth reading from the beginning of the thread (as always) to get the background...
__________________
Tony
"As if wit, looks and wealth weren't enough - I don't have brains either"

 

[Rognvald]

harryp
a difference is thinking that they WILL happen and KNOWING that they will - therefore to that extent they HAVE

 

[Rognvald]

there are some who believe that we create our future....that our doubt's , fears, beliefs, knowing's.. affect our future on a molecular level!, after all arent we just energy created from nothingness held by some force....this must be part of us.......'' it is the space between the bars which Holds the tiger''.

I know that I affect my world, that what I give out creates my world.......I know that I can swim!, some know they cannot, who is right. I wouldnt be so arrogant as to say I have any answers, I am just on my own path of learning, but I know I affect my future staying on purpose & detaching from the outcome.

Jay

The price of e.g. a futures contract is a result of a decision between a buyer and a seller. The buyer thinks price will go higher; the seller that it will go lower. The trade at a price is representative of those views.

The influence of those two traders over the market is over for now but there is still the opposite reaction that must come when the trade is closed. There are, then, two sides to every trade - that each trade will at some stage have an opposite reaction on the market and that it will influence other traders

 

[firehorse]

It's just that I've always thought that events in the future WILL happen not that they HAVE happened

And that is what most people think, which is why Socrates is having a hard time teaching his material. He's given plenty of hints before in this thread.

I would urge anyone who has not read the whole thread to do so. I've just taken some timeout to reply here because I'm on my second time through the thread back at around #500!

If you do not have the stomach / discipline / determination to read and digest all that has gone on before then you will miss out on a lot of points that have been covered before. It may also indicate that you are not quite yet ready to join the discussion and your time may be better served joining a shorter thread covering less 'deep' issues.

[ Nice to get a courteous reply................... perhaps Socrates will take note !]

Thanks It takes a long time to compose a 'nice' reply and if you have not read and understood what has gone on before then Socrates just tells it like it is

Better to get a tongue-lashing from Socrates then to lose a load of dosh on an apparent certainty on the market!!! He's just being cruel to be kind

 

[Max22]

My point was that in order to be intuitive one needs the experience of trading, either with or without indicators, first. And then with the proper mindset the intuition would reveal itself. Going back to what The Bramble said.

 

[SOCRATES]

And that is what most people think, which is why Socrates is having a hard time teaching his material. He's given plenty of hints before in this thread.

I would urge anyone who has not read the whole thread to do so. I've just taken some timeout to reply here because I'm on my second time through the thread back at around #500!

If you do not have the stomach / discipline / determination to read and digest all that has gone on before then you will miss out on a lot of points that have been covered before. It may also indicate that you are not quite yet ready to join the discussion and your time may be better served joining a shorter thread covering less 'deep' issues.


Thanks It takes a long time to compose a 'nice' reply and if you have not read and understood what has gone on before then Socrates just tells it like it is

Better to get a tongue-lashing from Socrates then to lose a load of dosh on an apparent certainty on the market!!! He's just being cruel to be kind

And, we are only in the basement at the moment.
We have not yet gone to the ground floor, the first floor ,
and most certainly the top floor has not been discussed,
you just imagine, Firehorse, what would happen if I had
succumbed to the assumption that everyone was
wired like you are and instead of starting at the basement
and keeping it in the basement for the moment,
had assumed incorrectly and started on the roof intstead !