The Holy Grail

[glyder]

If system really is everything yes the holy grail could then be bought. And sold, and shared.
But is system the key to trading?

 

[lloydbee]

LLoydbee thank you for making one of your rare postings on the forum here.
As for buying the holy grail, I'm not sure ....I'm skeptical whether it is possible to buy even a trading mentor. Mentoring probably needs to come from the heart not the pocket.....the right student needs the right mentor etc... no one size fits all. Its not easy to be a mentor or be mentored without both hearts being in it.

I know 100% you can as you say, 'buy' a mentor or mentoring.
Mentoring doesn't need to come from the heart as you can see from the amount of people popping up as so called mentors but you are correct in thinking it should.
Like you say mentoring should not come from the desire to earn money, my ex-business partner had that mindset when we were forming Interactive Options and that is why he is an ex-business partner. All he saw was the potential dollars rather than being in it for the love of sharing his knowledge or to see the way trading success changes the persons life.

You are also very right in saying mentoring is not easy IF the mentor is doing it for the right reasons. The amount of hours spent wondering what can be done to make someone understand faster, or easier is always on my mind and is mentally draining to say the least. Dealing with the frustrations of people doing 4 hours a week if that, while the mentor does 30-40 just on something for their benefit to try and help them advance as fast as what is possible or wanted is not easy to swallow, but sitting back and letting them advance at their pace is something a mentor must do unfortunately. Though at times they say they want to learn faster, it is hard knowing they just aren't putting in the hours to achieve that speed of success.

Speaking for myself... I am, and always will be a trader first, mentor second. I would never trust a so called mentor that pushes his service or system. Getting spammed time and time again in emails or on websites just shows they are a sales person and not a trader.

At the end of the day there is no Holy Grail System as such. What there is at the end of the rainbow, is strategies or trades that can be used, manipulated or adjusted to suit the market individually with each trade and used in different ways by each persons level of risk and reward.

Systems don't work for retailers as the markets are too erratic thanks to HFT. What works is trade management and knowledge of different ways to manipulate each trade in order to lesson or reclaim losing trades back into profit, THAT is what mentors should be teaching not a set of useless rules like entering a trade when certain MA cross, that sort of style is a joke.

But is system the key to trading?

As I said above, I believe a system is not everything. Trade interpretation or mostly trade management and exits are what really matters. The ability to handle the psychological pressures of trading is also another important factor in someone's success.

Well that is my opinion as a trader.

 

[glyder]

Is system the key to trading?

I think you mention the psychological issues of trading.

I tihnk this is where it all happens.
Even being given a good system, and they are out there available, it is the way the individual interacts with the system and interprets the market in the light of that system that matters.
The system and market are both being interpreted by the trader....it is this part that is critical to finding the holy grail.
Its a very personal and individual process.

Through disciplined action and reflection, along with risk management we can each find or create our own holy grail.
Its waiting for each of us. Its not in the trading system its in the individual so it will be different
for each person.

 

[Pat494]

Is system the key to trading?

I think you mention the psychological issues of trading.

I tihnk this is where it all happens.
Even being given a good system, and they are out there available, it is the way the individual interacts with the system and interprets the market in the light of that system that matters.
The system and market are both being interpreted by the trader....it is this part that is critical to finding the holy grail.
Its a very personal and individual process.

Through disciplined action and reflection, along with risk management we can each find or create our own holy grail.
Its waiting for each of us. Its not in the trading system its in the individual so it will be different
for each person.

Excuse me for mentioning it but you seem to have swallowed the vendor excuse for non performance, hook, line and sinker. Blaming the customer if the system doesn't produce the goods.

 

[glyder]

I think you're on the wrong track Pat,
Vendors have no place in my world.
If they do in yours then please don't worry about their systems or their excuses any longer.
There's no need to view things through their prism. Banish them.

In fact what I said above would be pretty much anti vendor,
My point is that the system, any system, is not the key.
The answer and the holy grail is within each of us so its all up to the individual.
This includes taking responsibility and that means holding ourselves responsible for our errors
and corrrecting them.

 

[Pat494]

I think you're on the wrong track Pat,
Vendors have no place in my world.
If they do in yours then please don't worry about their systems or their excuses any longer.
There's no need to view things through their prism. Banish them.

In fact what I said above would be pretty much anti vendor,
My point is that the system, any system, is not the key.
The answer and the holy grail is within each of us so its all up to the individual.
This includes taking responsibility and that means holding ourselves responsible for our errors
and corrrecting them.

Sorry I seem to have misunderstood your point.

 

[glyder]

Sorry,

The confusion may be where I said that 'there are good systems out there available'.
I didn't mean from vendors. There's enough free on the web, even on T2Win for free
totally free. I don't know what vendors offer but they cannot change the inner individual.

Thats where the holy grail is. And it can't be bought cos its free to those that can find it.

 

[neil]

Sorry,

The confusion may be where I said that 'there are good systems out there available'.
I didn't mean from vendors. There's enough free on the web, even on T2Win for free
totally free. I don't know what vendors offer but they cannot change the inner individual.

Thats where the holy grail is. And it can't be bought cos its free to those that can find it.

The key to trading, trade some more success is to stop foraging in the mountain of drivel posted all over the internet,stop searching for a holy grail (cos it aint out there anymore than extra terrestrials) and get off your butt and trade. Then check your results, read some more trading related posts put up by actual traders (Live calls thread for example) trade some more, check results, alter aspects of your approach if necessary, then trade some more. But please, stop day dreaming and get stuck in.

 

[glyder]

I'm not day dreaming Neil and very stuck in.

Take your point about the net though.

take the good it has to offer then don't let it mess with you.

 

[glyder]

Talking of whats available on the net, the Xdelia prject may be worth looking into.
No I'm not affiliated, and they are not, at this stage anyway, vendors.
I joined in the earlier stage experiments on traders. Wired up, focus, breathing and heart rate monitored.
Since then they have developed it into training for traders.
At least one big banks involved to help their trading depts. Its interesting.

They are offering a kind of mindfulness training to help with maintaining mental focus and awareness.
Give it a go. Its free, at least during the test period, but takes some sticking power to get through the month.
It seems almost totally non trading related but some may find it helpful.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-psychology/149712-xdelia.html#post2012622

 

[BeginnerJoe]

(cos it aint out there anymore than extra terrestrials)

You are quite wrong. It is out there. But it isn't meant to be found by everybody. I have it. I have had it since the beginning. But I didn't know I had it.

If you don't believe it can be found, you will never find it.

I can even give you a hint of what the holy grail looks like. It looks like this. But I am not convinced you will be able to work out which part of this is the holy grail.

 

[penguin941]

this thread is ridiculous

 

[glyder]

this thread is ridiculous

now is that really a fair evaluation, Penguin?

 

[glyder]

You are quite wrong. It is out there. But it isn't meant to be found by everybody. I have it. I have had it since the beginning. But I didn't know I had it.

If you don't believe it can be found, you will never find it.

I can even give you a hint of what the holy grail looks like. It looks like this. But I am not convinced you will be able to work out which part of this is the holy grail.

Hey Beginner Joe,

You are living proof of the holy grail
You had it in you all along.
As we all do.

Surely now you are Experienced, Joe.

I am.
Are You Experienced Jimi Hendrix HD - YouTube

 

[neil]

You are quite wrong. It is out there. But it isn't meant to be found by everybody. I have it. I have had it since the beginning. But I didn't know I had it.

If you don't believe it can be found, you will never find it.

I can even give you a hint of what the holy grail looks like. It looks like this. But I am not convinced you will be able to work out which part of this is the holy grail.

As with all your pronouncements Joe - I frankly don't give a ****e

 

[BeginnerJoe]

As with all your pronouncements Joe - I frankly don't give a ****e

Well, the secret to the holy grail is that it doesn't depend on anyone giving an xxxx.

 

[traderman1]

You are quite wrong. It is out there. But it isn't meant to be found by everybody. I have it. I have had it since the beginning. But I didn't know I had it.

If you don't believe it can be found, you will never find it.

I can even give you a hint of what the holy grail looks like. It looks like this. But I am not convinced you will be able to work out which part of this is the holy grail.

Why not open an account on Zulutrade and let us see your trading results over 3, 6, 9 and 12 months?

Now wait for all the excuses

 

[Pat494]

Hey glider look what I have found for you

 

[glyder]

Hey glider look what I have found for you

Thanks Pat,

Happy to see you are seeking the grail too.
Looks like we're getting close!


Looks kind of confusing with those circles, adx's and stuff, surely theres an easier grail somewhere
out there

 

[lloydbee]

Nice one

Hey glider look what I have found for you

:clap: everyone can be super wealthy, I think it's time to run down the road and put that deposit on the Ferrari.