Tax free futures trading using TT, Stellar, CQG....iBetfinancials

[fiftyfifty]

Hi

Just a quick question regarding the tax-free aspect of ibetfinancials and your earlier example of two traders sitting side by side using traditional futures trading platform and ibet tax-free wrapper. Just from a quick search of HMRC website I came across this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM22019.htm which would suggest from first reading that if your trade/profession is futures trading then these bets would be consider part of your trade and be taxable. If your primary way of earning a living is trading then will HMRC still view the use of ibet as untaxable? I hope my interpretation of this is wrong as it sounds like a fantastic service.

 

[ibetfinancials]

Hi

Just a quick question regarding the tax-free aspect of ibetfinancials and your earlier example of two traders sitting side by side using traditional futures trading platform and ibet tax-free wrapper. Just from a quick search of HMRC website I came across this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM22019.htm which would suggest from first reading that if your trade/profession is futures trading then these bets would be consider part of your trade and be taxable. If your primary way of earning a living is trading then will HMRC still view the use of ibet as untaxable? I hope my interpretation of this is wrong as it sounds like a fantastic service.

Hi fiftyfifty,

We sought advice from a leading QC (specialising in taxation) and received written confirmation from HMRC that one of our internal prop traders activities when trading through spread betting would not be liable to pay tax on his earnings as his account was a financial spread betting account.

In our letter to HMRC we outlined that this was our only/main source of income and they confirmed that our activities were tax free.

I will pm you to discuss this with you.

For further details on iBet Financials please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[Hittfeld]

Hi Moksha,

Your are correct, there are no advantages for non-UK traders. This is a feature of Financial Spread Betting..........

[/email]

I wonder if this is correct: When I lived in the NL -many moons ago- spreadbetting was tax free there as well. Steal-4-Free even supplied a document from a major international accounting firm.

Regards

Hittfeld

 

[ibetfinancials]

I wonder if this is correct: When I lived in the NL -many moons ago- spreadbetting was tax free there as well. Steal-4-Free even supplied a document from a major international accounting firm.

Regards

Hittfeld

Hi Hittfeld,

You may be correct. We never sought legal advice or received confimration from Dutch authorities confirming that our activities there would be tax free.

For further details on iBet Financials please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[ibetfinancials]

iBet Financials can provide financial backing for traders with proven successful strategies on a profit sharing setup.

For further details on iBet Financials please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[Truth Seeker]

What's your commissions per lot on the eurusd and gbpusd, and the YM and Dax? I would like to test your service, do you have a tester/trainer? Have you thought about introducing mini accounts like normal futures brokers, as this would increase your customer base a hundred fold.

 

[Jimmy Lulz]

What's your commissions per lot on the eurusd and gbpusd, and the YM and Dax? I would like to test your service, do you have a tester/trainer? Have you thought about introducing mini accounts like normal futures brokers, as this would increase your customer base a hundred fold.

I don't think you'll have any joy with the mini thing, I think they're really aimed at professionals and their whole thing is you're actually trading the market, so partial lots etc wouldn't be possible.

 

[ibetfinancials]

What's your commissions per lot on the eurusd and gbpusd, and the YM and Dax? I would like to test your service, do you have a tester/trainer? Have you thought about introducing mini accounts like normal futures brokers, as this would increase your customer base a hundred fold.

Hi Truth Seeker,

As mentioned below by Jimmy Lulz, we are only licensed to work with professional traders and tend to be more attractive to mid-high volume traders. We are not after the low volume retail market. I will contact you by PM however to see if we can be of assistance.

For further details on iBet Financials please contact iBet Financials directly at [email protected]

 

[pboyles]

What's your commissions per lot on the eurusd and gbpusd, and the YM and Dax? I would like to test your service, do you have a tester/trainer? Have you thought about introducing mini accounts like normal futures brokers, as this would increase your customer base a hundred fold.

Truthseeker

Kyte Group are not in the same league as the companies you are looking at. Their minimum account size is 35k so they are not aiming at amateurs with £500 accounts. It's a totally different kettle of fish.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Truthseeker

Kyte Group are not in the same league as the companies you are looking at. Their minimum account size is 35k so they are not aiming at amateurs with £500 accounts. It's a totally different kettle of fish.

....Good to know

 

[StealthTrading]

Prospreads offer DMA to the futures market through a spread betting account, all profits are tax free.

You only need £1K for a live account. While CQG does the look the dogs nuts I don't have spare £35K available right now.

It's good to see other DMA brokers coming onto the market. Maybe they'll reduce that minimum eventually. Keep us posted Rowland.

 

[riogordo]

I disagree that they are not offering market prices as I ran their prices side by side with my DMA platform as other have also confirmed and the prices were identical. Whether they go via their servers or direct is not a concern to me as long as I get the right price.

They maybe more expensive, but I don't need 35K to have an account with them.

 

[pboyles]

I disagree that they are not offering market prices as I ran their prices side by side with my DMA platform as other have also confirmed and the prices were identical. Whether they go via their servers or direct is not a concern to me as long as I get the right price.

They maybe more expensive, but I don't need 35K to have an account with them.

Just because they offer the same prices doesnt make it direct market access. Its the type of trade execution we are talking about here. With DMA you wont get all the funny business you will when you spreadbet as your trades will go through the exchange.

 

[riogordo]

Just because they offer the same prices doesnt make it direct market access. Its the type of trade execution we are talking about here. With DMA you wont get all the funny business you will when you spreadbet as your trades will go through the exchange.

Agreed, which is way they probably say "functionality". But I don't get any funny business. I can join the bid/offer or trade at market. A spreadbetting company acts as principle so I can't see how letting a client have pure access to the market can be classed as a spreadbet?

 

[ibetfinancials]

Agreed, which is way they probably say "functionality". But I don't get any funny business. I can join the bid/offer or trade at market. A spreadbetting company acts as principle so I can't see how letting a client have pure access to the market can be classed as a spreadbet?

"Just because they offer the same prices doesnt make it direct market access. Its the type of trade execution we are talking about here. With DMA you wont get all the funny business you will when you spreadbet as your trades will go through the exchange. "




The price feed is DMA I have no doubt. However, as trades go to Prospreads first, and then (on occasion) to the market, the price you are executed at is up to them, just like when you trade with IG/CMC etc. "Functionality" is the key word here. Prospreads will happily admit its not true DMA if you ask them. Just like all the other spread betting companies.




"Whether they go via their servers or direct is not a concern to me as long as I get the right price."


When the spread betting firm is trading against you it is in their interests to give you the price which is best for them.

iBet financials: [email protected]

 

[ibetfinancials]

Agreed, which is way they probably say "functionality". But I don't get any funny business. I can join the bid/offer or trade at market. A spreadbetting company acts as principle so I can't see how letting a client have pure access to the market can be classed as a spreadbet?

There is nothing inherent in being a spread betting betting provider that says you need to widen te spread (prospreads etc) or not allow your clients direct access to the market (all SB firms). (Or take 3 seconds to fill trades, freeze platform, slip on entry and exit etc - its just what they all have an incentive and are required to do in order to give them the edge of any "non-retail" clients who open accounts with them.)

This is where iBet is unique and why this thread is posted in the Futures forum and not the spread betting forum. We offer FUTURES trading with the tax free benefit of being a spread betting company.

We are happy to show any professional traders who may be interested in opening an account with iBet both the legal and HMRC confirmation that we have.

For further details please contact [email protected]

 

[pboyles]

Agreed, which is way they probably say "functionality". But I don't get any funny business. I can join the bid/offer or trade at market. A spreadbetting company acts as principle so I can't see how letting a client have pure access to the market can be classed as a spreadbet?

Riogordo

If you look at the FXCM judgment and fine you'll see what goes on behind the scenes with brokers that are trading against you. In that case it was retail forex but the issues are the same, they control the slippage you get and ensure it is always to your detriment.

This is why you should be trading with proper DMA through an exchange. The scope for fraud is vastly reduced.

 

[Jason Rogers]

If you look at the FXCM judgment and fine you'll see what goes on behind the scenes with brokers that are trading against you. In that case it was retail forex but the issues are the same, they control the slippage you get and ensure it is always to your detriment.

FXCM uses NDD forex execution for spreadbet accounts in which every trade is offset one for one with a liquidity provider, which means a traders profit is not FXCM's loss and a traders loss is not FXCM's profit. Also, orders are filled dependent on liquidity from the liquidity providers so either positive slippage (price improvement) or negative slippage can occur. Slippage data is publicly available on the website including details on the numbers of orders experiencing positive and negative slippage with NDD forex execution:

 

[pboyles]

FXCM uses NDD forex execution for spreadbet accounts in which every trade is offset one for one with a liquidity provider, which means a traders profit is not FXCM's loss and a traders loss is not FXCM's profit. Also, orders are filled dependent on liquidity from the liquidity providers so either positive slippage (price improvement) or negative slippage can occur. Slippage data is publicly available on the website including details on the numbers of orders experiencing positive and negative slippage with NDD forex execution:

You may do now but you didnt before, hence your $20 million odd fines from the authorities. The point remains the same, if you trade anything off exchange (SB, retail forex) then you are at the mercy of brokers who may or may not rip you off.

 

[StealthTrading]

"Functionality" is the key word here. Prospreads will happily admit its not true DMA if you ask them. Just like all the other spread betting companies.

I have asked them and they say they are DMA. Then again you think they would jump on this thread and give their side of the story.

In all fareness you are direct competitors to them so I'm sure you are both wanting to win new clients.

Everyone keeps saying go DMA but who else offers DMA?? I found nordfx from this thread and their ECN works with MT4 but can someone share DMA brokers who they use... anyone?

Rowland, if we had a £10K with ibet what are the additional cost?
Platform fees = ?
Clearing and Exchange fees = ?