t/a and level 2

Hi Scooby.Simulators are just thatThey aren't the real thing.
They just give you a guide to how the software works.

I know a trader who used level 2 simulator and made $45 million in a day (so he told me) because he worked out its limitations and was able to exploit them.I used one and made bundles because it allowed me to keep scalping spreads on certain large spread stocks.They aren't real,just a guide and they have their limitations.
 
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Simulators / Trials

Also tried one or two simulators and found that they weren't really useful for learning or practising. There are many things that aren't REAL - and as Naz says, they are really there to give a look and feel of the program.

So, I am going to have to put money down to get the real thing before getting the practice in.

Which platform from PointDirex were you using, Scooby? Would like to get more of your thoughts.


Cheers
Lawman
 
It looks like for one reason or another some of us may be looking for new level 2 trading platforms to use.

There are lots out there offering slightly different things.Lets keep each other posted about any feelings about any demo systems,telephone back up,fee's or anything else we might find.

For my part,if exp is being fazed out its sad,but as i said it keeps being unstable recently,so its good that the broker is doing something about it.

In all honesty because my account is with the same broker i think i will have to change to Direct access elite unless something wonderful turns up.It may not have some of the little things i'm used to.However when i looked at it once before it had pre and post market charting facilities.

This allowed me to graphically see support and resistance levels used by the ecn's out of market hours.So when it re tested those levels during market hours i had more information at my finger tips and i was able to get a much better feeling about what was happening.
 
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Volatile Nasdaq stocks offer some great trading opportunities. ;)

First of all look for stocks that have exhibited strong moves in the past.Story stocks are a case in point.Those Chinese internet stocks have all the makings of some volatile moves.ie SOHU,SINA,NTES.

To trade these type of stocks on the open in my opinion can ONLY be done with a level 2 direct access screen.Get the right tool for the job and learn how to use it.Make sure the liquidity is there for entries and exits,understand what orders will work best for you and if possible hot key them on your key board.

In the first 15 mins do not take your eyes off that level 2 screen.The story is right there in front of your eyes.Any 1 minute chart can make wide range bars that only show the extreme range of where trades have taken place.This will not give a true picture of where the "body" of the stock is trading.

The object is to try and make a $1 move or more very quickly.ie for a normal day trader this will be $1000.

In any strong move its good to have done your home work with the chart before hand to identify any support and resistance levels.Then feel how they deal with it on the level 2 screen when we get there.

The first blue arrow was my entry and the second blue arrow was my exit.I took the chart snap because i felt the fast move was over.I was out anyway,a fib level had been hit and more to the point the level 2 screen was telling me that was it.
 

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Nasdaq Level2

Naz,

You seem to be the Level2 Guru, bit of a newbie question but here goes. Is level 2 more than the ability to see depth on Nasdaq at competing ECN's?

Lots of brokers offer Nasdaq Level2 quotes, but what constitutes full Level2 access?

Is it the ability to send orders directly to one or other ECN?

I have seen systems where there is potential to arb the market if you are quick enough I guess this is the real Level2 holy grail.

Please expand

Thanks
 
Hi Fillyer boots,

Yes Nasdaq level 2 direct access does a whole lot more than just show depth of market.The trouble is so many UK traders just think of UK level 2 and NL2 as being nearly the same they just aren't.The UK are pre historic the Nasdaq are in hyper space.

So many people think they are looking at a full level 2 screen and in effect they can be looking at an ecn order book.

I suppose a true level 2 screen shows all the market makers,the ecn's and offers all the major orders.Of course you have the ability to send orders to any Ecn or market maker and also become a market maker yourself by capturing the spread through an ecn,or hiding your intentions,which not many people do.

Hence when a major moves occur you are not held hostage by only being able to trade with a third party like one market maker or one sb company who adjust their quote maybe at your expense.You have the flexibility to trade where ever and with anyone you want.

You can also trade before and after market hours as well as arbing the market all the time especially on wide spread stocks and of course pre and post market where with decent skills you can grab a quick couple of hundred bucks doing the same arb trick.

If you get further down the line some vendors will expand and give you extra proprietary orders which are great for trading large size in fast opening moves or jumping in front of other traders with lightening fast execution instructions.These orders can be executed either by point and click or hot key'd onto your key board.

Another key feature with skill, is to understand exactly what probable future moves are by watching the key players on the screen.When things are moving fast,like on the open where with decent skills $1000 can be earned in 20 mins or less (12 mins yesterday) i certainly dont want to be looking at 1min bars on a chart because all i'm seeing are trades going off at the extremes.ie joe bloggs with his Internet account buys 100 shares on a market order and so the one minute chart will pick that up and register it even though we are all trading away from that price.

Now ask yourself this.If i'm playing a gap move on the open and the axe (controlling market maker) holds and creates a support level and the stock moves up on the chart because of this,then very quietly he pulls his quote on the level 2 screen and drops away,when it comes back to test that level he wont be there to support it,hey presto it will likely collapse and start the move to close the gap.

If i can get the short on as the stock is slowly moving up and he disappears from the bid i've got an edge that no chart reader will have.As the stock falls it will collapse because he created support and is not there to hold it.

There are lots and lots of little quirks that you can use to make trading more exciting and profitable as well as using all your other skills as well.

If you want to learn how to trade using its benefits T2W offer a very good course,details of which are on its homepage.

Many traders that can trade but get fed up in being shafted in other markets with antiquated trading systems find it a real gem.

Although it sounds at first a little different even a true beginner can get to grips with its basics and progress further as they go.People that learn it without any baggage from other systems do remarkably well.
 
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HI Naz
Great post today which I am sure all US traders will find very useful. Was wondering where you were on the question of L2 brokers? I know you have started with Etrade - are you still very pleased with executions etc? What made you choose this over the number of other platforms that get v high marks in the recent Barron's review? Anyone using the non Lightspeed L2 product amongst the group? I am still on IB!! but focussed on swing trades just now but I am turning back to shorter term stuff as I feel some vol coming on!! IB is excellent for more than 24 hour trades but not sure re day trades. Swing names: WSTL hit 10 yesterday, must try not to miss the next run to round number 15!! UBET; XMSR; SIRI; ...just a few on my small cap board that have been pretty lively of late.
Re finding set ups, what is your current main source? TC?
 
Lawman& Scooby
Gretings long time no speak......spotted your comment re simulators: are you still using pointdirex? What broker have you guys settled on for Level 2 trading? See my update above in the note to Naz.
Cheers, Dane
 
Hi Dane,

I think any lightspeed type of platform is unbeatable for those quick morning moves.Those quick moves are fantastic and one can certainly earn a very good living just by looking for one of those every day.But for me i would only play it on a level 2 screen.Its fast and because of that you need the best.

When i'm demonstrating it i notice that even chart readers aren't looking at the chart they are just concentrating on the level 2 sceen.Hey its one time of the day that the axe will probably be out to play!Play it with him.

Obviously if one is in to a much leisurely type of level 2 play then a run of the mill level 2 system would suffice.

How do i find these stocks? 2 hours of home work a day and some very nice e mails from other Nasdaq traders who give me little tit bits to check out.

Good luck

Naz
 
Thanks for the ideas and input Naz - good w/e and look forward to seeing your posts next week now we have the 4x witching out of the way!!
Cheers
 
Hi Pollux,

Here is a little more thinking about that above SOHU trade and how homework can work.

It started when i saw that AMZN,YHOO,EBAY etc had been doing so well.So i hunted for smaller internet stocks that had maybe been running better.(ie i'm looking for better volatility)Then when i found one i searched for news on it and found others associated with it.

So then i made a folder in tc 2000 and put them all in there.At some stage i reckon they will be tradeable.I also checked them out on a level 2 screen and made sure that when the time came the liquidity will be there.

Then i went through all my folders in the morning and bingo that section had all sold off.So i went searching for the story.Once i found it i thought ok at some stage there will be a level that will be important.I found that level with SOHU it was $30.20.Fantastic, a fib level just above a decade number.

I checked the stock pre market and it had gapped down into that region.Great now i've got a gap down into a key support area.Throw away your charts now they've done their job,why do i want to look at them on the open they've given me all the info i need.Now i'm going for a gap play with key support underneath me.

When the players set themselves up on the level 2 screen to make their move i'm in.I'm sorry no oscillator,moving average or anything else will tell you,just the players,its they that change the prices.Once they've changed the prices and someone transacts against that change then the chart will register it.That for me is to slow.

I look to grab a 1,000 off the ask and in such away that that it creates even more momentum to the up side.Remember this is chess,i use my entry to create momentum by taking out ecn's that might be in the way.This is where hot key'd orders work so well.

Once the run starts in a volatile stock it can close the gap and keep on running as all the late players with their slower means of viewing the action and trade executions join in.

My reckoning is always once you've banked over a dollar run and you're up near a whole number start thinking about getting out or scaling out.After all in 15 mins you've just earned a days money with 1000 shares thats $1000,not bad for 15 mins work,dont let it go.Remember as well i'm watching the liquidity of the stock on the level 2 screen so when i'm ready to go i know how i will exit.Remember also you cant exit a 1000 shares into fresh air,there has to be someone to transact against.You can see who you can transact against on the level 2 screen.If someone pops up with a 1000 on the bid or below the bid at an opportune moment hit him and be gone.

Ok that part was over and the next part of the plan was that $30.20 level.Would it re test? i had no idea,but i just watched an waited.In the end it did come back and i sat and watched all the action as it trundled along.No chart was needed,its done its job already by giving me that key point.The only action was on the level 2 screen.After a time you get to see how its generally being played.then all of a sudden they set themselves up for a break,hey presto i'm in,now its was just a question of managing the trade until i got stopped out.

Did i think it was going to break? In all honesty i didn't have a clue but i knew some guys that did and i just watched them on the level 2 screen until they gave me the signal and then took a low risk trade and managed it to see how much it would give me.

Remember for me the key was picking a good volatile stock so that when it moved it would give me extensive profits.T/a finds set ups.After that its Nasdaq level 2,that shows where the story is,thats where you'll be ahead of the action and not behind it!
 
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NAZ: Let me complment you on your thread especially the last few posts. I dont trade U.S. stocks ( I think I have a mind set barrier in doing so- illogical I know) but after studying the markets over several years and reading a mountain of so called GURU books and papers I am confident I can separate the wheat from he chaff. Your posts are convincing and logical re combining T/A and Level2 ( completely ignorant about Level 2) which gives you and other professional taders an edge. Thanks again in sharing your methods with the rest of us. Good Luck
 
An excellent post and one of the best I have seen on finding the ideal setup and managing the trade.


Paul
 
Great post Naz, a true master trade :)


Pollux, Hi yes long time no speak, I have not yet settled on a level 2 platform. After spending the day with Naz where he showed me the potential power of level 2 I decided I needed to go back to basics a bit and spent a day with Mr charts on how to find news stocks and what stocks to use for Pattern Day Trading. This too was an awesome day.

For the last 4 weeks I have been using the techniques shown to me by Mr Charts with great success and setting up my e-signal program as to how I want it laid out and upgrading it include scanners, Futures info etc.

I am moving fairly slowly but at a pace to my likening and hope to be trading proper in the next two months or so. Quite happy to live, learn and master everything I have been shown.

As for a level 2 platform, I will probably add it on to my e-signal package but after spending the day with Mr Charts to trade successfully you do not need to know it straight away. My understanding is yes it will improve your bottom line even more but learn the basics of trading before level 2. As for a broker I will use IB with a plug in for e-signal.


How about you?

Naz and Mr Charts. You are both very good at your particular styles of trading NASDAQ stocks please keep posting the examples every once in a while. :)


Ray.
 
Good morning Naz - sorry a bit tardy in acknowledging this fine post on your SOHU trade last week. We traders who are mainly US focussed are extremely grateful for this detailed input.
Sccoby thanks for the update and well done for covering the subject so thoroughly. Your comments on Mr Charts noted with interest by the way. Re brokers and execution, I do think it is essential to have the 'lightning' executions that Naz speaks so eloquently about even if one's timeframe is somewhat longer. It's quite possible I am not getting the most out of IB as far as US stock trades are concerned and there are ways to tighten the prices and be pretty effective (whether scalping, day or swing trading), but I am shifting to etrade because I think they make it easier whether one is watching every level 2 price like a hawk or not. In fact I have the same thought re esignal, yes there are cheaper and more inventive ways to get data & charts but they offer an off the shelf solution which is very effective. So it's esignal & etrade with IB for futures and options for me (for now!).

Good luck to all 't/a and level 2' posters for the week. I hope to figure out the fool's way to post charts on the site soon to put on my tuppence ha'penny worth in due course on ideas and set ups.

Great job again Naz for such helpful posts and for being a bit of an inspiration to those who are in your wake!!

P
 
Hi Pollux, Trader333, Naz and others.

Been a while...
Pollux, to update you, I have opened an account with PointDirex. I haven't funded it yet due to other things taking my time up. so much so that I haven't even been following the markets at all for a while. Hope to find my feet again soon and start using what Naz has taught.
What are e-Trade's charges for LightningSpeed etc??
Would be easier having money locally than having to send it overseas.

All the best
 
Lawman

Etrade are $9.99 I am pretty sure - quite reasonable and as you say better to manage the money locally and have a local contact point as well.
YOu can get funded just in time for the summer sell off!! (or 10% rise)
P
 
Naz,

What data feed, trading platform & brokerage do you suggest? There are so many alternatives that it is easy to get bogged down in indecision and do nothing.

Thanks for the excellent posts.
 
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