Stop loss or % of capital?

[Kunal]

I've been here all along, just wondering if the thread would ever provide any specific answers.
As far as entry is concerned, I did wonder how gareth used 1% stops. After some searching here and on a few other sites,I found that NR4s are good entry points with low risk.
I've confirmed that I can use 2% stops on them, so now I'm looking at how to optimise the exit.
I wonder how many people here could have pointed out the NR4 as one of the possible answers immediately ?
Some of the advice on this thread IS excellent, tho not in context of the original topic.
Thanks to all of you for participating, specially to the few that really put in their desire to help.

 

[garethb]

Kunal,

Glad you found the answer you felt you needed mate. I wish you a long and profitable trading career.

Best Regards

 

[SOCRATES]

I've been here all along, just wondering if the thread would ever provide any specific answers.
As far as entry is concerned, I did wonder how gareth used 1% stops. After some searching here and on a few other sites,I found that NR4s are good entry points with low risk.
I've confirmed that I can use 2% stops on them, so now I'm looking at how to optimise the exit.
I wonder how many people here could have pointed out the NR4 as one of the possible answers immediately ?
Some of the advice on this thread IS excellent, tho not in context of the original topic.
Thanks to all of you for participating, specially to the few that really put in their desire to help.

I am disheartened again. It seems that everything that I have taken the bother to explain to you in great detail at a very high professional level has gone in one ear and straight out the other.

This goes to show once again how it is that people are apt to revert to what they percieve to be easy solutions by trying to take shelter and seek comfort from mechanical stuff.

You overlook the significance of the obvious.

The only thing I omitted to mention was in regard to a stop being re inserted for a special reason.

But now that I can see all of this lands on deaf ears, I don't think it is worth the bother.

 

[charliechan]

kunal - here is the answer you are looking for.

NOBODY CAN TELL ****Y*O*U**** WHERE TO PUT ****Y*O*U*R**** STOP.

THE END.

got it?

stop placement is decided upon the following:

your time frame
your tolerance to risk
your account size
your product
your method
your objectives
your comfort level.

it is more art than science.

i have no idea if anyone has explained this to you already as there is no way on gods green earth that i am going to plough 9 pages of tittle tattle as people debate over various shades of grey when they miss the whole spectrum of colour around them.

trading is an individual task, especially when trading your own money. there is no right or wrong way.

if you were to start a thread called 'how to spot a trend' you would get another 9 pages of different ideas.

the bottom line is your equity curve. when its going up you have the right answer - for you.

 

[fxmarkets]

agree about telling people, but he did come asking for solutions

ere' and thanks for putting yours forward.

 

[TheBramble]

I am disheartened again. It seems that everything that I have taken the bother to explain to you in great detail at a very high professional level has gone in one ear and straight out the other.

This goes to show once again how it is that people are apt to revert to what they percieve to be easy solutions by trying to take shelter and seek comfort from mechanical stuff.

Don't be disheartened Bertie. It's all a question of understanding what it is the person asking NEEDS for their progress at their current level of comprehension and experience.

Kunal clearly needed to understand the more mechanical aspects right now, to learn enough, in order to begin starting to discover that which he really needs to be asking questions about. You're just a tad too early with your style of assistance.

It's almost like expecting a man being closely pursued by a Lion to choose on an extended discourse on the breeding, feeding, behavioural and terrain characteristics and preferences of Leo Panthera when what he really wants and NEEDS is the information that the river, into which old Leo will not follow him, lies just 10 yards to his left.

He can think about doing his more serious research in more amenable circumstances once he SAFELY reaches the other side.

The real trick is not simply knowing the deep detail, but knowing how, and when, to provide it.

 

[garethb]

Understand the Sentiment Bramble but what if the river is full of crocodiles is it really such helpful advice

Regards

 

[TheBramble]

It's quite certain (100% probability) the Lion IS chasing him.

There is a probability (to be assigned) of him interacting with a crocodile in the river, true. But it's currently less than 100%.

I'd go with the probabilities on this one.

It's a case of going with the mane trend and hoping not to muddy the waters....

 

[charliechan]

Understand the Sentiment Bramble but what if the river is full of crocodiles is it really such helpful advice

Regards

very true.

the issue here is that there really is no time or place to learn other than in the markets. paper trading is a poor but necessary teacher.

this isnt a profession of beginner, advanced, pro, youve got to be a pro from the get-go if you want to make money. socrates seems to know this which is why the advice seems 'advanced'. there really is no alternative for the real actoin - especially if a daytrader.

the only solution is to lose as little as possible while moving from profitable paper trader to profitable real trader. this is a real bitch because the goal needs to be to make money, but the realistic aim is to lose as little as possible which is kind of a negative slant. socrates has a habit of explaining my posts better than i can sometimes - hope he can do the job here!! behavioural goals always work better than pure monetary goals for me.

if losing as little as possible is the plan, then perhaps socrates advise of a tight stop is wise? but this presents the second debate - what is tight? what is tight for socrates may be lose for someone else. we will never know - nor can we without explicit examples, but this will still be of low utility for the reasons in my earlier post.

what a head f****!

 

[SOCRATES]

very true.

the issue here is that there really is no time or place to learn other than in the markets. paper trading is a poor but necessary teacher.

this isnt a profession of beginner, advanced, pro, youve got to be a pro from the get-go if you want to make money. socrates seems to know this which is why the advice seems 'advanced'. there really is no alternative for the real actoin - especially if a daytrader.

the only solution is to lose as little as possible while moving from profitable paper trader to profitable real trader. this is a real bitch because the goal needs to be to make money, but the realistic aim is to lose as little as possible which is kind of a negative slant. socrates has a habit of explaining my posts better than i can sometimes - hope he can do the job here!! behavioural goals always work better than pure monetary goals for me.

if losing as little as possible is the plan, then perhaps socrates advise of a tight stop is wise? but this presents the second debate - what is tight? what is tight for socrates may be lose for someone else. we will never know - nor can we without explicit examples, but this will still be of low utility for the reasons in my earlier post.

what a head f****!

At the weekend ~ far too bizzi now.

 

[charliechan]

......

It's almost like expecting a man being closely pursued by a Lion to choose on an extended discourse on the breeding, feeding, behavioural and terrain characteristics and preferences of Leo Panthera when what he really wants and NEEDS is the information that the river, into which old Leo will not follow him, lies just 10 yards to his left.


....

hmmm.

sounds like a short cut to me.

there is no short cut to profitability. there is a short cut, but it doesnt lead there. it leads somewhere else. i have been there, and it isnt nice.

too often in todays society everyone is looking for shortcuts. they dont want to do the work.this is why the old timers are still raking it in while the other 90% are slowing themselves down looking for short cuts.

perhaps we should go to lotto2win.com instead?

if you want to avoid leo, then you had better do the work to avoid leo in the first place, not look for short cuts while hes biting your tail. had you done the prep, he wouldnt be on your tail in the first place - and would be in no need of the short cut. youd be safely back in the hotel sipping on a vodka martini by the pool with a chick - while you laaarf at some wise guy getting his butt chased by our mate leo!!

ouch!

 

[charliechan]

...actually there is another way to avoid leo - and all his mates.

that is to take a bloody big gun out with you. then leo had better start reading up on trader avoidence techniques.

problem is, i doubt anyone here has the means to get that gun - if they did, they wouldnt have need for this site.

 

[Kunal]

I really do appreciate the effort everyone has put in here.
IMO, psychology and experience do have a small role to play, but ultimately it is mainly stock selection and timing according to the trade timeframe.

Interestingly, nobody directly agreed with, OR disagreed with, the use of the NR4, OR even commented sideways on it's efficiency.

 

[SOCRATES]

I really do appreciate the effort everyone has put in here.
IMO, psychology and experience do have a small role to play, but ultimately it is mainly stock selection and timing according to the trade timeframe.

Interestingly, nobody directly agreed with, OR disagreed with, the use of the NR4, OR even commented sideways on it's efficiency.

No,, you are wrong.

Knowledge Experience and Psychological input (meaning knowing yourself and being in control absolutely without question) constitute the MAIN role.

The MINOR role is played by stock selection, so you have got it back to front again.

This is the same as a skilled craftsman being able to turn out works of art with very basic tools against someone with a complete workshop with every tool imaginable turning out primitive results.

The skilled craftsman will shrug and just get on with it, continuing to turn out masterpeices.

The other one nit picks and blames his tools, and lurches from one botched job to another, and what is worse, is forever looking for better or more efficient tools but the results remain the same.

 

[garethb]

Socrates

I think your first post on the thread was spot on. It's a wind up

Kunal

the reason nobody is commenting on NR4 is because all the experts know that, beginner though you may be, you have stumbled upon the one true source of eternal success in the markets (NR4 with 2% stop). I tried to trick you into a 1% stop so I could take your shares from you and the others are putting up a smokescreen of deliberately distracting useless advice so the world will not catch on that the secret has now been exposed in the public domain for all to see. In a previous post I wished you a long and successful career. I see now that I didn't need to. With such keen analysis skills and your obvious drive to work until you understand everything there is to know about the markets how can you fail? It is a fierce battle for survival in the markets but I know you will win. Just let us know what markets you will be trading so we can stay away in the hope of surviving a little longer.

Regards

Gareth

 

[contrakt]

Stopless

without effective protection

 

[Kunal]

I don't see any need for such sarcasm. Perhaps something has touched a very, very raw spot to trigger it.
If you disagree with something, just ignore it.
Everyone here has a unique view of what works or not. I have deliberately posted the NR4 as a possible low risk entry, so that someone looking for answers can view it as a possible solution.

I am very well aware that specially here, what people are NOT talking about is much more important than what they are.
It's very easy for me to use excessively long sentences, liberally laced with unnecessary presuppositions to prove a historical point of view as being the publicly accepted source of what may be right, as long as they don't realise that they cannot search for that which is not known and outside their sphere of awareness, to be able to disprove something that cannot be convincingly proven to one and all while counter evidence that is freely available is denied in order that the reign of BS is maintained which would ensure that people cannot question that which they have no knowledge of or ever expect that they could ever find a solution to, because to them, it never existed even though it was right before their very eyes, but pushed out of awareness by the very seemingly clever thought that nothing in life is ever simple and is thereby automatically discarded without the natural verification that usually takes place, metaphorically speaking.
But does it make sense?

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates

I think your first post on the thread was spot on. It's a wind up

Kunal

the reason nobody is commenting on NR4 is because all the experts know that, beginner though you may be, you have stumbled upon the one true source of eternal success in the markets (NR4 with 2% stop). I tried to trick you into a 1% stop so I could take your shares from you and the others are putting up a smokescreen of deliberately distracting useless advice so the world will not catch on that the secret has now been exposed in the public domain for all to see. In a previous post I wished you a long and successful career. I see now that I didn't need to. With such keen analysis skills and your obvious drive to work until you understand everything there is to know about the markets how can you fail? It is a fierce battle for survival in the markets but I know you will win. Just let us know what markets you will be trading so we can stay away in the hope of surviving a little longer.

Regards

Gareth

Hello Gareth, I had to read your post a couple of times but I now get your drift.

You omit to mention that if this idea in addition can be fully automated, it would prove deadly
not just to every trader but as a very real threat to the exchanges themselves and ultimately the whole system of capitalism.

One should not become surprised if suddenly, in order to operate it as you describe, even without automation, it would require strict licencing.

 

[SOCRATES]

I don't see any need for such sarcasm. Perhaps something has touched a very, very raw spot to trigger it.
If you disagree with something, just ignore it.
Everyone here has a unique view of what works or not. I have deliberately posted the NR4 as a possible low risk entry, so that someone looking for answers can view it as a possible solution.

I am very well aware that specially here, what people are NOT talking about is much more important than what they are.
It's very easy for me to use excessively long sentences, liberally laced with unnecessary presuppositions to prove a historical point of view as being the publicly accepted source of what may be right, as long as they don't realise that they cannot search for that which is not known and outside their sphere of awareness, to be able to disprove something that cannot be convincingly proven to one and all while counter evidence that is freely available is denied in order that the reign of BS is maintained which would ensure that people cannot question that which they have no knowledge of or ever expect that they could ever find a solution to, because to them, it never existed even though it was right before their very eyes, but pushed out of awareness by the very seemingly clever thought that nothing in life is ever simple and is thereby automatically discarded without the natural verification that usually takes place, metaphorically speaking.
But does it make sense?

No, not at all, but those of you who were there know about it......
As the Gryphon said to Alice....."and now tell us all about the games then".

 

[sandpiper]

I don't see any need for such sarcasm. Perhaps something has touched a very, very raw spot to trigger it.
If you disagree with something, just ignore it.
Everyone here has a unique view of what works or not. I have deliberately posted the NR4 as a possible low risk entry, so that someone looking for answers can view it as a possible solution.

I am very well aware that specially here, what people are NOT talking about is much more important than what they are.
It's very easy for me to use excessively long sentences, liberally laced with unnecessary presuppositions to prove a historical point of view as being the publicly accepted source of what may be right, as long as they don't realise that they cannot search for that which is not known and outside their sphere of awareness, to be able to disprove something that cannot be convincingly proven to one and all while counter evidence that is freely available is denied in order that the reign of BS is maintained which would ensure that people cannot question that which they have no knowledge of or ever expect that they could ever find a solution to, because to them, it never existed even though it was right before their very eyes, but pushed out of awareness by the very seemingly clever thought that nothing in life is ever simple and is thereby automatically discarded without the natural verification that usually takes place, metaphorically speaking.
But does it make sense?

That all sounded strangely familiar....

ah well, I think it's time to play the music, time to light the lights...

Where's the rudester when you need him?