Ive been Spreadbetting for almost 2 years and have recently moved to trading futures for only certain instruments.
I find I can trade Indices, EUR/USD and GBP/USD prefectly, but when it comes to EUR/YEN its pretty much impossible (unless Im using the wrong contract) so in some instances SB works well, you should see it as just another tool in the toolbox.
I find I can trade Indices, EUR/USD and GBP/USD prefectly, but when it comes to EUR/YEN its pretty much impossible (unless Im using the wrong contract) so in some instances SB works well, you should see it as just another tool in the toolbox.
Strategic Trader
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yet another spreadbetting debate - on one side, learners giving their considered and completly unknowledgable opinion on the pros and cons of spreadbetting- and the other side- experienced traders taking the time to tell the learners that they are wasting their time spreadbetting and spreadbetting is actually going to stop them learning to be traders
counter_violent
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What is wrong with using S B facility for swing trading ?
Spread cost becomes minimal in this scenario does'nt it ?
Spread cost becomes minimal in this scenario does'nt it ?
FetteredChinos
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where's barjon when you need him?
Maybe those that trade FX and knock spread betting will be kind enough to tell us what the spreads are for the major currency pairs. We are continuously told that we pay too much in spreads and the prices are manipulated against us, it would be better for all of us if we were shown the error of our ways. Being told without concrete examples does not seem to be driving the point home, we are either too blind to see or pretend to be ignorant to the truth.
It will also help the 'Newbies' avoid the 'fools world' that the rest of us seem to be content to dwell in. Otherwise they might find it difficult to grasp the difference.
Or is it a case that the spreads are not as good as you would have us believe? We already know that some DA traders experience slippage, stop and limit orders not being filled at the right price etc. I wonder if the traders (oops! sorry I meant Gamblers) that place trades (I mean bets) through IG Index would complain about their Guaranteed Stop Orders not being filled at the right price.
It will also help the 'Newbies' avoid the 'fools world' that the rest of us seem to be content to dwell in. Otherwise they might find it difficult to grasp the difference.
Or is it a case that the spreads are not as good as you would have us believe? We already know that some DA traders experience slippage, stop and limit orders not being filled at the right price etc. I wonder if the traders (oops! sorry I meant Gamblers) that place trades (I mean bets) through IG Index would complain about their Guaranteed Stop Orders not being filled at the right price.
On Globex spread on the EUR/USD is 1 PIP, plus one pays a commission of about $3-5 per side. There is a chance of slippage by 1PIP. Those who trade Fx through FX brokers pay around 3 PIPS in spread, no commission. Any ideas whats the spread if the same thing was traded using spreadbetting.?
LION63 said:
TheBramble
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You'd have to have a fairly elevated opinion of your own capabilities to consider you were in a position to make that judgement of others.wisestguy said:
A position which, from my perspective, is yet to be proven - by a long chalk.
rizwanuk said:
You have to remember, the commission is per contract and each contract is the equivalent of $12.50 per pip. I believe the margin requirement is approx $2500 per contract. So its gets pretty serious pretty quickly.
Current D4F spread is 3pips on the 4 majors, not sure about rest.
I believe Oanda (forex retail) are now offering 1.8pip spread.
Happy trading
Strategic Trader
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each spreadbet company will have a different business model and even then, at times they will change their business model - a lot are run by failed traders so they will screw up just as they did when they were trading themselves - but that screwing up does not offer you opportunity to profit - just means the spreadbetting company manages to lose and you still manage to lose - so regardless - spreadbetting is not a way to make money at trading and not a way to learn to trade
On the subject of fx, SB spreads are very similar to retail fx brokers.
When you look at the business models of these sorts of companies, they are essentially the same when it comes to fx.
ie both make their own market, both base their prices on the spot interbank market.
If you want to trade directly into the spot market, you need huge capital (don't ask how much, I just know I am nowhere near)!
Other than futures, retail traders really only have two choices. FX broker or SB company.
In terms of spread/ bias etc, there is no real noticeable difference between the more reputable fx brokers/ sb companies.
The fx brokers tend to have better/ platforms but from a spread/ bias perspective, you have an equal opportunity to profit with a good sb company in comparison to a good fx broker.
Incidentally, with futures, you pay commission and the $ per point is higher per contract. You need to be trading at I would say £20 per pip or more to benefit from futures trading as compared to spot broker or SB. (I am basing this on using a 3 lot position to scale out profits).
When you look at the business models of these sorts of companies, they are essentially the same when it comes to fx.
ie both make their own market, both base their prices on the spot interbank market.
If you want to trade directly into the spot market, you need huge capital (don't ask how much, I just know I am nowhere near)!
Other than futures, retail traders really only have two choices. FX broker or SB company.
In terms of spread/ bias etc, there is no real noticeable difference between the more reputable fx brokers/ sb companies.
The fx brokers tend to have better/ platforms but from a spread/ bias perspective, you have an equal opportunity to profit with a good sb company in comparison to a good fx broker.
Incidentally, with futures, you pay commission and the $ per point is higher per contract. You need to be trading at I would say £20 per pip or more to benefit from futures trading as compared to spot broker or SB. (I am basing this on using a 3 lot position to scale out profits).
Strategic Trader
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i look at fx as a sort of upmarket version of spreadbetting anyway - i dont want the people i send my trades to, to be able to trade against me and profit at my loss - trades done with futures on an exchange are 100% transparent
dr_d_michaelson
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That's right. The costs are the same. The difference is whether you get taxed on it. Big difference. Makes the decision a no-brainer for anyone other than a consistent loser not troubled by annual profits.darrenf said:
Quite right. But someone routinely trading fx at 20+ per point will find the tax highly relevant, won't they?darrenf said:
Neither do I. That's why I only use a spreadbetting firm that trades with me rather than against me. That way I know they're more happy when I'm making profits, and just in case I forget they keep saying so loudly and clearly. That's exactly how and why the system works, but those with no experience of it apparently assume the exact opposite! Oh well, we live and learn (some of us).Strategic Trader said:
Porks said:
Hi Porks,
No, I'm not saying they do or dont lay off their bets. They probably do. To be brutally honest though, I really dont give a tinkers cuss whether they do or dont. I'm only interested in my PnL, not theirs!
What I dont know for sure is what direction they hedge the customers bet. Given that 80-90% of traders are alleged long term losers (actually its probably 80-90% of new traders who are losers if you think about it), then it would seem to make sense to go against the customers orders wouldn't it. If they took the same side, they would also lose - along with the customer. So do spread bookies really have their customers best interests at heart as they claim to?
As a separate point to whether or not spread bookies are in business to profit from the punters losses, ask your self what they do with all the losses. Does anyone think they give them to charity? What a strange business - where at least 60-70% (estimate) of your profit is made unintentionally. Guess Bill Gates is in the wrong business!
Like I said, I really dont give a hoot for what ever flannel Deal4a sure loss or any of the other crooks say. Phillip Morris wont admit smoking causes heart disease. If they can get away with that, then some fly be night bookie wont have any trouble hood winking the gullible will they.
LION63 said:
Well their spinning you a line aren't they - another reason to move your account elsewhere.
How can they act as a market maker when there is no actual goods being exchanged. You may want to think about that one!
I'd be a bit concerned if I found out that my broker didn't know the first thing about nothing. I think I've heard it all now!
Other folks -
By managing the position I mean the ability to scale in and out of the position.
Spreadbetteur
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BBB
Who do you recommend for direct access trading for FX ?
Can you trade the cash price or just the future, via direct access ?
How does trading the future compare with the cash in terms of liquidity ?
What is your opinion of the middle option - retail banks, FXCM / Saxo ? Are they not just SB's in posh clothing ?
What charting package do you use ?
What is "...a tinkers cuss" ?
Who do you recommend for direct access trading for FX ?
Can you trade the cash price or just the future, via direct access ?
How does trading the future compare with the cash in terms of liquidity ?
What is your opinion of the middle option - retail banks, FXCM / Saxo ? Are they not just SB's in posh clothing ?
What charting package do you use ?
What is "...a tinkers cuss" ?
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