Spreadbetting - IG complaint

[mr_put]

"this is irrelevant , u was logged in period , for the court there is no proof u wasnt monitoring your bet" - no, there's no absolute proof, but have you ever tried using the mobile application? it was unreliable, kept freezing, crashing, not allowing access to certain prices, or to your positions - not ideal, and that's when you can concentrate on looking at it, i had to do it discretely at work, so damn near impossible without regular trips to the toilet.

"They will not do this , i hope they do it so we can take advantage of " out of whack " prices !" - i have seen prices spike suddenly, so quickly that you can't put a trade on. cynics would say that there is no transparency in pricing, that these spikes do not reflect the underlying index, and are deliberate to take out people's stops.

"i c in this chart the close for the Ftse100 @ 26th sep 2008 was 5102 not 5089 ..." - i saw that too, but i was rolled at 5089, i have that in writing, naughty isn't it? there may be some small print to cover IG but i'll mention it to the FOS even though my complaint is closed. perhaps they will show some interest in IG's pricing...

 

[tar]

"this is irrelevant , u was logged in period , for the court there is no proof u wasnt monitoring your bet" - no, there's no absolute proof, but have you ever tried using the mobile application? it was unreliable, kept freezing, crashing, not allowing access to certain prices, or to your positions - not ideal, and that's when you can concentrate on looking at it, i had to do it discretely at work, so damn near impossible without regular trips to the toilet.

"They will not do this , i hope they do it so we can take advantage of " out of whack " prices !" - i have seen prices spike suddenly, so quickly that you can't put a trade on. cynics would say that there is no transparency in pricing, that these spikes do not reflect the underlying index, and are deliberate to take out people's stops.

"i c in this chart the close for the Ftse100 @ 26th sep 2008 was 5102 not 5089 ..." - i saw that too, but i was rolled at 5089, i have that in writing, naughty isn't it? there may be some small print to cover IG but i'll mention it to the FOS even though my complaint is closed. perhaps they will show some interest in IG's pricing...

1- if the mobile application is unreliable why u was logged in anyway ?

2- how u know the spikes doesnt reflect the underlying index ?

3- i didnt mean there settlement was wrong they take it from bloomberg and they provide u with a screenshot if u asked , the official closing price is after 16:35 , maybe prorealtime charts shows the close at 16:30 ...

 

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by mr_put View Post
just checked my statement from that day: i had 1.8k deposited, 4.3k in running profit (i did already have 1 £100pp long on), 12.5k in waived deposit limit = 18.6k; versus the 16k deposit requirement after i put the 2nd £100pp long on, so that's how i was able to put the bets on. not that that explains why it was allowed to run so far outside the account parameters.

Using 4.3k of unrealised profit as margin for a new position of the same size in the same instrument is extremely stupid, since if you ever need the margin, by definition it's gone.

It's automatic extra leverage.

 

[Jack Hughes]

forget about it , IG rollover the Daily Ftse based on the FTSE 100 official closing print .

Does it say that on their site somewhere? As you can't actually trade indices, why would they need to do that, anyway?

 

[gle101]

We have all as traders done stupid mistakes. Most of the time we can get away with it not being to burned down to the ground. Mr_put did in the first place make the mistake of not applying a proper money money management strategy, and with this kind of stake in combination with one of the worst draw down ever it was fatal from a financial prospective. I feel one most look at his case with a constructive mind in order to find some kind of angel that could act in his favor. I think his best defense could be, "why didn't I receive a margin call and why wasn't my position closed down at an earlier stage". From the facts we know he clearly didn't have the credit to cover up for such a huge loss and should after all things considered not be allowed to continue having his position open. According to the MIFID the company must act in the client best interest, as far as I understand IG failed to apply this rule by not closing his position earlier. So I think it is vital for mr_put to find out how long time elapsed after his actual credit limit was overdrawn, and how the market behaved by the minute after reaching this point of overdrawn credit.

 

[tar]

Does it say that on their site somewhere? As you can't actually trade indices, why would they need to do that, anyway?

ofcourse check the link below page 26

http://www.igindex.co.uk/content/files/dealing_handbook.pdf

infact IG has settlement on indices every 5 minutes for binarybets and they take it from bloomberg print , one day i was suspicious about one of these bets they sent me this screenshot and they were right and the same happened for the Taiex settlement i think and they sent me a screenshot ...

 

[tar]

Does it say that on their site somewhere? As you can't actually trade indices, why would they need to do that, anyway?

also u can check the "get info "from the drop down menu beside each instrument

 

[tar]

i found this : " 21. Credit
Details of any credit arrangement that may be available to you are or will be set
out in, and will be subject to, such terms, conditions and limits as may be agreed
with you in separate correspondence. We reserve the right to alter any credit
arrangements agreed with you at any time. You acknowledge that when you deal
with us on credit, neither any limit set on your account nor any amount of Deposit or
Margin you have paid puts any limit on your potential losses in respect of a Bet. You
acknowledge and agree that your financial liability to us may exceed the level of any
credit or other limit placed on your account. "

 

[gle101]

i found this : " 21. Credit
Details of any credit arrangement that may be available to you are or will be set
out in, and will be subject to, such terms, conditions and limits as may be agreed
with you in separate correspondence. We reserve the right to alter any credit
arrangements agreed with you at any time. You acknowledge that when you deal
with us on credit, neither any limit set on your account nor any amount of Deposit or
Margin you have paid puts any limit on your potential losses in respect of a Bet. You
acknowledge and agree that your financial liability to us may exceed the level of any
credit or other limit placed on your account. "

Yes, they try to cover up for any scenario possible. However, the MiFID overrides the T&C if they contradict each other.

 

[mr_put]

"1- if the mobile application is unreliable why u was logged in anyway ?
2- how u know the spikes doesnt reflect the underlying index ?
3- i didnt mean there settlement was wrong they take it from bloomberg and they provide u with a screenshot if u asked , the official closing price is after 16:35 , maybe prorealtime charts shows the close at 16:30 ..."

1. because that was the only way i can possibly log on during the working day - as needs must. i won't be doing it again!
2. just strikes me as suspicious that the market can move so much, and i mean alot, in such a blip, but as you say, it could reflect the underlying index.
3. as long as it's correct, then fine.

"Using 4.3k of unrealised profit as margin for a new position of the same size in the same instrument is extremely stupid, since if you ever need the margin, by definition it's gone.

It's automatic extra leverage"

if it's such a risky practice, perhaps IG shouldn't allow people to do it on their platform, especially inexperienced investors.

"I think it is vital for mr_put to find out how long time elapsed after his actual credit limit was overdrawn, and how the market behaved by the minute after reaching this point of overdrawn credit"

how would i find out how the real and IG markets moved on 29th sep 2008?

"i found this : " 21. Credit
Details of any credit arrangement that may be available to you are or will be set
out in, and will be subject to, such terms, conditions and limits as may be agreed
with you in separate correspondence. We reserve the right to alter any credit
arrangements agreed with you at any time. You acknowledge that when you deal
with us on credit, neither any limit set on your account nor any amount of Deposit or
Margin you have paid puts any limit on your potential losses in respect of a Bet. You
acknowledge and agree that your financial liability to us may exceed the level of any
credit or other limit placed on your account""

this basically says they can do anything they want. is that fair and reasonable? is it enforceable? i hope not.

 

[Splitlink]

The last paragraph that you wrote is a legal let out for them, we all know that and, because they have a large clientele the newcomer signs up because, if he didn't, he would not trade. Nevertheless, most disputes are small and, probably, settled peacefully. However, when someone like you comes along, such a large some of money is going to need every legal loophole in their book. You, and everyone signs one of those forms. I didn't sign IG's, but I have someone elses so we are all together in this.

These contracts are a grumble for all of us because there is nothing that we can do about them. Until someone like you comes along and, if you are big enough, you get the law changed. Are you big enough? It requires very deep pockets. Whether you are or not, yours is an unenviable position to be in and I wish you luck.

What I said before still goes, nevertheless.

 

[tar]

"

"i found this : " 21. Credit
Details of any credit arrangement that may be available to you are or will be set
out in, and will be subject to, such terms, conditions and limits as may be agreed
with you in separate correspondence. We reserve the right to alter any credit
arrangements agreed with you at any time. You acknowledge that when you deal
with us on credit, neither any limit set on your account nor any amount of Deposit or
Margin you have paid puts any limit on your potential losses in respect of a Bet. You
acknowledge and agree that your financial liability to us may exceed the level of any
credit or other limit placed on your account""

this basically says they can do anything they want. is that fair and reasonable? is it enforceable? i hope not.

No it doesnt mean they can do anything they want it means u r liable for the losses even if it exceeds your limits , it is about the market , the market can do anything it wants ! but anyway the court will not let u pay more than 60k and i think it will not charge u that much because IG has some responsibility i hope so , but be prepared cuz u will pay something ...

 

[tar]

The last paragraph that you wrote is a legal let out for them, we all know that and, because they have a large clientele the newcomer signs up because, if he didn't, he would not trade. Nevertheless, most disputes are small and, probably, settled peacefully. However, when someone like you comes along, such a large some of money is going to need every legal loophole in their book. You, and everyone signs one of those forms. I didn't sign IG's, but I have someone elses so we are all together in this.

These contracts are a grumble for all of us because there is nothing that we can do about them. Until someone like you comes along and, if you are big enough, you get the law changed. Are you big enough? It requires very deep pockets. Whether you are or not, yours is an unenviable position to be in and I wish you luck.

What I said before still goes, nevertheless.

No he is not big enough , he has to go to the toilet to check his positions on the mobile

 

[Jack Hughes]

No he is not big enough , he has to go to the toilet to check his positions on the mobile

I'd be spending all day on the toilet if I put a £200 per point bet on the FTSE with no stop.

 

[tar]

" 2. just strikes me as suspicious that the market can move so much, and i mean alot, in such a blip, but as you say, it could reflect the underlying index. "

no it is a real move , the Ftse moved hundred of points that day and it reversed back up the next day but shame u closed your positions , maybe IG wanted to give u chance because of this they didnt close your positions

 

[Jack Hughes]

maybe IG wanted to give u chance because of this they didnt close your positions

Yeah, they're really a generous, warm-hearted bunch who help old ladies across the road, rescue lost kittens and want customers to make as much money as possible.

 

[mr_put]

as pointed out above, i don't have deep pockets, but i will fight this. even if i can't change the law, it will make IG think twice about their procedures.

the blips i was referring to weren't hours long, i'm talking about indexes moving 5-10% for a second and then back again. maybe that happened in the real market, i don't know, but it is suspicious given the lack of transparency in pricing. suppose you had stops on, you may have bet the right way, but the "blip" would take out your stops. ok, it may have hit some others' limits, but it may still be worthwhile for the spreadbetting company to do.

 

[tar]

as pointed out above, i don't have deep pockets, but i will fight this. even if i can't change the law, it will make IG think twice about their procedures.

the blips i was referring to weren't hours long, i'm talking about indexes moving 5-10% for a second and then back again. maybe that happened in the real market, i don't know, but it is suspicious given the lack of transparency in pricing. suppose you had stops on, you may have bet the right way, but the "blip" would take out your stops. ok, it may have hit some others' limits, but it may still be worthwhile for the spreadbetting company to do.

5-10% in a second ! where u saw this i have account with them i didnt c anything near this at all or with any other SB firm , u r talking here about 250-500 points on the Ftse !

 

[pboyles]

as pointed out above, i don't have deep pockets, but i will fight this. even if i can't change the law, it will make IG think twice about their procedures.

the blips i was referring to weren't hours long, i'm talking about indexes moving 5-10% for a second and then back again. maybe that happened in the real market, i don't know, but it is suspicious given the lack of transparency in pricing. suppose you had stops on, you may have bet the right way, but the "blip" would take out your stops. ok, it may have hit some others' limits, but it may still be worthwhile for the spreadbetting company to do.

You mean you havnt checked the real market yet? Give me the dates and I'll have a look.

 

[tar]

as pointed out above, i don't have deep pockets, but i will fight this. even if i can't change the law, it will make IG think twice about their procedures.

the blips i was referring to weren't hours long, i'm talking about indexes moving 5-10% for a second and then back again. maybe that happened in the real market, i don't know, but it is suspicious given the lack of transparency in pricing. suppose you had stops on, you may have bet the right way, but the "blip" would take out your stops. ok, it may have hit some others' limits, but it may still be worthwhile for the spreadbetting company to do.

There is no lack of transparency as u say , u can get tick by tick data with IG from the pro charts and u can compare it with the underlying market there is nothing to hide ...