ColinRiche
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Couple of questions -
Bid/Ask size i take it thats the contract size - so whats 1 equal to - is that 1000 shares ?
i see the same MMid on either side with only a penny difference - why ?
Bid/Ask size i take it thats the contract size - so whats 1 equal to - is that 1000 shares ?
i see the same MMid on either side with only a penny difference - why ?
ColinRiche
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Trader333 said:
That doesn't make much sense, you need to know the order value to get a true indication of the book and 100 is 10,000 shares
further to follow....
Options,
Your Medved screen shows Island as isld. Mine shows them as cinn.
What data feed are you using? Does it give you a good emini feed?
Have you found a way of highlighting a MM other than with the arrow which only marks one side? Have you found any way of highlighting more than 1 MM?
I have not, but it's hard to complain at the quality having regard to the cost and support!
Oldun
Your Medved screen shows Island as isld. Mine shows them as cinn.
What data feed are you using? Does it give you a good emini feed?
Have you found a way of highlighting a MM other than with the arrow which only marks one side? Have you found any way of highlighting more than 1 MM?
I have not, but it's hard to complain at the quality having regard to the cost and support!
Oldun
Trader333
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Sorry Colin that is just the way it is and is one of the reasons
why MM can play all sorts of tricks on the Level II screen such as follows:
You will sometimes see a key MM such as GSCO showing a size of
1 and when they get to the inside bid they soak up all the selling
and this can be tens of thousands of shares and they still only
show a size of 1
Oldun,
The screenshot of Medved is very old. Not only is Island now
CINN but also Redi no longer exists
Cheers
Paul
why MM can play all sorts of tricks on the Level II screen such as follows:
You will sometimes see a key MM such as GSCO showing a size of
1 and when they get to the inside bid they soak up all the selling
and this can be tens of thousands of shares and they still only
show a size of 1
Oldun,
The screenshot of Medved is very old. Not only is Island now
CINN but also Redi no longer exists
Cheers
Paul
ColinRiche
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i'm some what confused it must be the heat
So we are looking at Market Marker Books, so what the benefit of watching this ?
Where is the traders book ?
I see the spreads are quite wide on individual MM unless you use smart routing yet on Datek the spreads are usually a penny.
Why would people use Island there spreads look very wide ?
So we are looking at Market Marker Books, so what the benefit of watching this ?
Where is the traders book ?
I see the spreads are quite wide on individual MM unless you use smart routing yet on Datek the spreads are usually a penny.
Why would people use Island there spreads look very wide ?
Thanks Trader.
Yes Oldun It'd medved's own screen shot from their faq page.
I think I will be using the IB feed with the med ved L2, although there is anoter feed on medveds site called Marketfeed That I want to look into.
At present you can only mark a symbol. The guy at medved says he is going to add the ability to highlight to his 'to do' list.
I have to say that the e mail support is very good. Actually I'm impressed with the whole thing now I have the indices working properly.
Yes Oldun It'd medved's own screen shot from their faq page.
I think I will be using the IB feed with the med ved L2, although there is anoter feed on medveds site called Marketfeed That I want to look into.
At present you can only mark a symbol. The guy at medved says he is going to add the ability to highlight to his 'to do' list.
I have to say that the e mail support is very good. Actually I'm impressed with the whole thing now I have the indices working properly.
Trader333
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Colin,
There is a great deal of benefit from watching and understanding
the level II screen. I will give you a couple of examples as to why:
Let's say you are watching BGEN and you have done your
research and you note that the MM called DBAB trades more
stock in BGEN than any other MM maybe doing 24% of all trading
in any given month. Well he is then known as the Ax. So you
highlight him on your Level II screen to make it easy to see what
he is doing. You notice that the inside bid is approaching $37.00
and DBAB is quoting $36.80 on the bid and $37.05 on the ask.
When the inside bid hits $37.01 you note that DBAB suddenly ups
his bid and is now at the top holding and buying the stock that
others are selling. You also note at the same time that he moves
his ask quote to $37.25 As other MM see DBAB holding the inside
bid they will try to jump ahead of him by increasing their bid but
DBAB keeps refreshing his quote and jumps ahead of them. The
Time and Sales is showing nothing but red which means that most
people are selling. This would be a signal for me to buy the stock
At some point DBAB would then drop his bid and may disappear
off the bid screen and suddenly appear on the inside ask. If he
stayed there for more than a few seconds I would sell my
position. This is because everyone would be following the lead
DBAB makes and I would be out of my position long before it
would be seen on a chart.
Another example of using level II is for me to decide where to
place my stop. I may see that BGEN is trading at $37.10 and
I decide to buy but I need to know where I can place a stop to
get out if the market moves against me. I notice that MSCO,
who is also a key MM in BGEN is showing a bid of $37.03 So I
decide to place my stop just below him at $37.02 Why ? Because
MSCO may just decide to hold the bid if the market declines and
if he does then there is a very good chance the market will go
up again. If not and the market declines then I have lost 8c on
the trade where my profit potential is usually 30c or more,
sometimes up to and exceeding $1 so my reward to risk ratio is
very attractive.
This is just two examples of how Level II can be used but there
are many many more and I dont pretend to know that many
myself. What I will say is that I simply would not trade
without using a level II screen as to me it is just too risky.
I hope this helps
Cheers
Paul
There is a great deal of benefit from watching and understanding
the level II screen. I will give you a couple of examples as to why:
Let's say you are watching BGEN and you have done your
research and you note that the MM called DBAB trades more
stock in BGEN than any other MM maybe doing 24% of all trading
in any given month. Well he is then known as the Ax. So you
highlight him on your Level II screen to make it easy to see what
he is doing. You notice that the inside bid is approaching $37.00
and DBAB is quoting $36.80 on the bid and $37.05 on the ask.
When the inside bid hits $37.01 you note that DBAB suddenly ups
his bid and is now at the top holding and buying the stock that
others are selling. You also note at the same time that he moves
his ask quote to $37.25 As other MM see DBAB holding the inside
bid they will try to jump ahead of him by increasing their bid but
DBAB keeps refreshing his quote and jumps ahead of them. The
Time and Sales is showing nothing but red which means that most
people are selling. This would be a signal for me to buy the stock
At some point DBAB would then drop his bid and may disappear
off the bid screen and suddenly appear on the inside ask. If he
stayed there for more than a few seconds I would sell my
position. This is because everyone would be following the lead
DBAB makes and I would be out of my position long before it
would be seen on a chart.
Another example of using level II is for me to decide where to
place my stop. I may see that BGEN is trading at $37.10 and
I decide to buy but I need to know where I can place a stop to
get out if the market moves against me. I notice that MSCO,
who is also a key MM in BGEN is showing a bid of $37.03 So I
decide to place my stop just below him at $37.02 Why ? Because
MSCO may just decide to hold the bid if the market declines and
if he does then there is a very good chance the market will go
up again. If not and the market declines then I have lost 8c on
the trade where my profit potential is usually 30c or more,
sometimes up to and exceeding $1 so my reward to risk ratio is
very attractive.
This is just two examples of how Level II can be used but there
are many many more and I dont pretend to know that many
myself. What I will say is that I simply would not trade
without using a level II screen as to me it is just too risky.
I hope this helps
Cheers
Paul
ColinRiche
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Oldun
i wan't looking for a 5 page answer, a research session or a course
i was just looking for some consise answers
i wan't looking for a 5 page answer, a research session or a course
i was just looking for some consise answers
ColinRiche
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No Paul my post should of went before your last Post
Thanks for the reply
i am used to UK level II which is SETS where any traders order can appear in the book - you actually see your order on L2
And there are the smaller stocks where you only see MM's
Is there nothing similar to SETS in the US or is it just MM books ?
Thanks for the reply
i am used to UK level II which is SETS where any traders order can appear in the book - you actually see your order on L2
And there are the smaller stocks where you only see MM's
Is there nothing similar to SETS in the US or is it just MM books ?
Trader333
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Colin,
Your order will appear on level II if it is a limit order but it will be
on one of the ECNs such as Island or Arca but only if it is the
highest bid or lowest ask on their books. You can set things up to
display the individual ECN books in which case you would see
your order at whatever price you have placed it at. ECNs do show
the actual size of orders at any price level, it is only MM that dont
always reveal their hand.
This is why Power View is of limited use and, in my view,
deceptive. You could see that the bid appears to have 20,000
shares on the bid and only 3000 on the ask so it would make
sense to think well the market must go up encouraging people to
buy. But then the MM that are showing very large size suddenly
pull their quotes and all of a sudden the 20,000 becomes 1000
Cheers
Paul
Your order will appear on level II if it is a limit order but it will be
on one of the ECNs such as Island or Arca but only if it is the
highest bid or lowest ask on their books. You can set things up to
display the individual ECN books in which case you would see
your order at whatever price you have placed it at. ECNs do show
the actual size of orders at any price level, it is only MM that dont
always reveal their hand.
This is why Power View is of limited use and, in my view,
deceptive. You could see that the bid appears to have 20,000
shares on the bid and only 3000 on the ask so it would make
sense to think well the market must go up encouraging people to
buy. But then the MM that are showing very large size suddenly
pull their quotes and all of a sudden the 20,000 becomes 1000
Cheers
Paul
theknifemac
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Colin
When I first had exposure to the US markets I too was surprised they way they worked in contrast to the European markets. The NYSE is electronic with a specialist in the middle like some small cap stocks in Amsterdam (where it seems if you lift one offer you are ok but if you lift two levels they may step in) and Nasdaq is like multiple versions of SEAQ (the ECNs) with the trades being electronic.
As more regional US exchanges offer cross listings there is no real central order book and the level II is a composite order book made up from all the ECNs, but split to show the individual ECNs instead of rolling all orders at the same price into one line.
HTH
Mac
When I first had exposure to the US markets I too was surprised they way they worked in contrast to the European markets. The NYSE is electronic with a specialist in the middle like some small cap stocks in Amsterdam (where it seems if you lift one offer you are ok but if you lift two levels they may step in) and Nasdaq is like multiple versions of SEAQ (the ECNs) with the trades being electronic.
As more regional US exchanges offer cross listings there is no real central order book and the level II is a composite order book made up from all the ECNs, but split to show the individual ECNs instead of rolling all orders at the same price into one line.
HTH
Mac
Options,
I use Medved as a reserve but it is getting so good it could almost be used as my platform.
I have one or two gripes, the main ones being:- First I have real difficulties with backfilling on 1 minute charts; second I cannot trade with IB directly through the L2 screen; third the MM highlighting issue referred to.
Once those issues are resolved it will be difficult to fault.
I agree, the support is superb.
I use Medved as a reserve but it is getting so good it could almost be used as my platform.
I have one or two gripes, the main ones being:- First I have real difficulties with backfilling on 1 minute charts; second I cannot trade with IB directly through the L2 screen; third the MM highlighting issue referred to.
Once those issues are resolved it will be difficult to fault.
I agree, the support is superb.
Last edited:
temporarilylight
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I have never used level II, although would consider it one
day as another tool in the arsenal.
Out of interest...is there any advantage of using the
free island ECN bookviewer when trading US stocks or
is this nothing like level II.
TEMP
Island bookviewer:
http://www.island.com/bookviewer.javaversion.asp
day as another tool in the arsenal.
Out of interest...is there any advantage of using the
free island ECN bookviewer when trading US stocks or
is this nothing like level II.
TEMP
Island bookviewer:
http://www.island.com/bookviewer.javaversion.asp
