You will come around, that is if you want to stay in this game. Money management is essential, this way you don't need to be tormented in each trade. Reconsider and think about what I said in my first post on this thread. It make sense to have a stop order in place and to calculate how much you should risk on each trade.Spread-betting is gambling... Unless you Spread-Bet on information you're not supposed to make financial gain from?
If I had a stop-loss on, I would have certainly lost money.
And before a typical smartarse answer of "you lost a heap more with no stop-loss", that's irrelevant to the point.
The fact is, if they didn't touch my account or at least gave me direct and due notice before doing anything, this never would have happened and I wouldn't have lost anything. What right do they have to alter my bets without informing me, even though they are at no financial risk by letting it continue, but in fact, seek to gain by altering it?
That's the point.
It's a serious conflict on interest and it's mind-boggling how the typical answer is just "you took too much risk".:
@elc
After opening a position your account must always(!!) guarantee the amount of margin (not jut at the opening)
So when the position went 10 points against you your account would only hold 168 Pounds.
The margin IG requests is still 225 Pounds, so you already have been owing them money (margin call) at that point!
And the position still went against you for more points. At some points they cut their risk by closing (part of) your position.
BTW with a guaranteed Stop your S/L would have been 28 points away aka 5968 and you would still be in the position with the full amount.
After opening a position your account must always(!!) guarantee the amount of margin (not jut at the opening)
So when the position went 10 points against you your account would only hold 168 Pounds.
The margin IG requests is still 225 Pounds, so you already have been owing them money (margin call) at that point!
And the position still went against you for more points. At some points they cut their risk by closing (part of) your position.
BTW with a guaranteed Stop your S/L would have been 28 points away aka 5968 and you would still be in the position with the full amount.
If I put a stop-loss at 5968, then they wouldn't have altered my bet prematurely, and would have had to allow it to remain at £9 per point until I had nothing left?
capitalspreads
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elc
yes.. that is the nature of a guaranteed stop (for all SB companies)... the guarantee means that you can never be asked for more margin... and the stop will only be triggered when the price reaches the level.... BUT you must pay a premium for it ... so it is probably a product that you want to use sparingly and only when you have a longer term view point.
there is no point in paying guaranteed stop premium if you are in and out many times a day.
Simon
yes.. that is the nature of a guaranteed stop (for all SB companies)... the guarantee means that you can never be asked for more margin... and the stop will only be triggered when the price reaches the level.... BUT you must pay a premium for it ... so it is probably a product that you want to use sparingly and only when you have a longer term view point.
there is no point in paying guaranteed stop premium if you are in and out many times a day.
Simon
Yea, but many people are acting like smartarses, but not making much sense, in that they're just briefly touching on and stating the obvious. It's not enlightening, just childish, patronising and insulting.
Also some of these people are contradicting each other.
For people acting like they intellectuals, they can't seem to even understand my issue.
You've even got smartarses on the high horse telling me SB has the same principles as all trading and even I couldn't understand IG "protecting themselves" (LOL), I should stay away from all forms of trading. Yea... no...
They equal a similar degree of principles as a daily commute...
Excluding market makers and criminals, of course nobody KNOWS which way the FTSE is going to go. I'm not saying that, I thought I made that clear already...
However, you can have a pretty good idea. Or is should you just flip a coin and have at it, each time?
If I "had a pretty good idea" it was going to drop, you can sure as hell wager that IG did too.
They weren't covering themselves when they lowered my bet, I believe that would be naive to think so.
Ah right, you have to pay for it.
I was under the impression that a truly guaranteed stop would be £0 funds on your account. That would be the typically logical practice no?
I can accept that I was screwed over because I didn't fully understand the rules created by those I'm essentially playing against, but it's just annoying when people are telling me what IG did was fair and in some way a possible favour to me.
I've been SB'ing for a few months now and was making large majority of profits from just watching trends, following other markets and economic events and pulling out safely on short trades.
Yea I got hit hard yesterday, but my error was not knowing IG would do what they did to my account, otherwise I would have put more money on just to stop them having an excuse for altering my bet, to prevent me from earning my money back.
When you start out in this game you think you understand, but it ain't that easy...
and IG didn't care which way the market was going to go, they would be "hedged" neutral, balancing their net long & short clients, and just skimming the transaction spread. If they had some insight, they would trade that with a separate pot.
They have to be hedged, so they can pay all those clients who were long (including me !) at the time you where short.
and IG didn't care which way the market was going to go, they would be "hedged" neutral, balancing their net long & short clients, and just skimming the transaction spread. If they had some insight, they would trade that with a separate pot.
They have to be hedged, so they can pay all those clients who were long (including me
!) at the time you where short.capitalspreads
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elc
IG make some £1m a day in revenue. They really have no interest in acting in an underhand manner. The action of stopping out a client who is on margin call and has not refunded his/her account is a practice that occurs in every single margined market.... MF Global went bust because they could not cover the margin on the positions they took... in hindsight the positions have now proved to be correct but the counterparties to MF Global did not know at that precise time that that Spanish and Italian debt would not go the same way as Greek debt and so they closed the positions... in reality the brokers were not taking a 'profit' (or not a profit of the size of MF Globals loss) as most of the positions were with third party counterparts... but the effect was the same thing.
All retail/professional trading platforms have a point beyond which the margin does not cover the risk.... (both to YOU and to the broker). So the position is closed... otherwise there is no point in having a margining policy.. or you go down the route as with us and have a flexible stop on every position that costs u nothing but is.... there.. and can be taken out on an temporary adverse move.
All of the controls in place are there to protect both the client from losing too much money and the broker from having to ask a client for money to cover a loss... which creates bad feeling and generally loses the client.
Simon
IG make some £1m a day in revenue. They really have no interest in acting in an underhand manner. The action of stopping out a client who is on margin call and has not refunded his/her account is a practice that occurs in every single margined market.... MF Global went bust because they could not cover the margin on the positions they took... in hindsight the positions have now proved to be correct but the counterparties to MF Global did not know at that precise time that that Spanish and Italian debt would not go the same way as Greek debt and so they closed the positions... in reality the brokers were not taking a 'profit' (or not a profit of the size of MF Globals loss) as most of the positions were with third party counterparts... but the effect was the same thing.
All retail/professional trading platforms have a point beyond which the margin does not cover the risk.... (both to YOU and to the broker). So the position is closed... otherwise there is no point in having a margining policy.. or you go down the route as with us and have a flexible stop on every position that costs u nothing but is.... there.. and can be taken out on an temporary adverse move.
All of the controls in place are there to protect both the client from losing too much money and the broker from having to ask a client for money to cover a loss... which creates bad feeling and generally loses the client.
Simon
No one knows for sure in which way the market will go. One can base the criteria on certain parameters such as technical analyses or fundamental analyses. If it was that easy we would all be making huge sums of money. As it is approx 95% of the traders are losing money. I would guess that among newbies this figure is even higher. No offence meant, we have all been struggling with the same issues trading the markets as you are experiencing right now.
BeginnerJoe
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Here's a smartass who made a lesson for you:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex/163288-market-lesson.html
BeginnerJoe
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Hoggums
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No No No!
You cannot hold a position that stops you out at £0 in the account at 5968. If the market is at 5967 you have precisely £9 of equity available in your account to cover margin.
But the margin at IG is 25x your stake - so you need £225 of free equity in order to keep that position open.
The fact here is that you did not understand the product you were trading and you didn't understand the rules by which you were trading.
IG have done nothing underhand here. If the market had suddenly flash jumped to 6000 because of an unexpected news announcement - then your account would be at -£288 and IG would have been at risk of not getting that money from you.
The margin on the position is to cover such an event and to protect against people doing a runner when their account approaches zero.
capitalspreads
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kalott
DMA? ... errr sorry you are still subject to margin (and much bigger margin amounts than with a SB or CFD company).
If you have a futures account and do not return calls.. or finance your account ... then the broker will close you out just the same. They are under an obligation to the exchange to do so, as there is always somebody else on the other side of the trade who is expecting to be paid.
Simon
DMA? ... errr sorry you are still subject to margin (and much bigger margin amounts than with a SB or CFD company).
If you have a futures account and do not return calls.. or finance your account ... then the broker will close you out just the same. They are under an obligation to the exchange to do so, as there is always somebody else on the other side of the trade who is expecting to be paid.
Simon
justtrader
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After reading this thread, it is conclusively clear, that there is only one dumb ass here!
justtrader
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Vasco da Banana
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