Masquerade
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1p
I guess you felt targeted, in order to come up with such a reply.
I don't work for CS.
Ambrose Ackroyd
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Has anyone tried out ProSpreads which is currently being touted by T2W ?
A Dashing Blade
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Use search facility on "prospreads" & on "Futuresbetting"
i would recomend ProSpreads.com, the trade size is larger than most but execution and unlike most others NO RE-QUOTES !
montmorencyt2w
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What do you mean by trade size?
...ok, just seen the FAQ:
"What is the minimum stake size?
A. The minimum size for any bet is the equivalent of 1 lot in the underlying security for each spread bet product.".
So, no minilots then?
What is the minimum account size? (not found that yet).
I wonder what the significance of this is in the application form?
"Do you have investments/assets in excess of Euros 500K?*"
OK, just realised that the reason was there in the help link:
"It may be necessary to ascertain whether you have sufficient financial resources to be classified as a ‘professional’ client. The investments and/or assets must exclude equity in your property."
So, small fry need not apply, apparently.
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That looks like an interesting site...it would be interesting to see what the platform was like. I wonder at what level one becomes a proffesional trader? I remember reading somewhere a while back that to be a accredited investor an income of £200,000 over the last 3 years is required, maybe it's something on par with that?
counter_violent
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jRasco..fwiw...I can think of no reason why you cannot hold several accounts with different providers and spread your risk that way....why the fascination/obsession with, biggest best bestest?
montmorencyt2w
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I certainly agree in principle. As well as spreading risk, it's good to have a backup in case your "main" account website goes down or has technical problems. Also theoretically, offers you a hedging possibility.
I don't know about jRasco, but it seems to me that as your account grows, and if (as we all hope to be) you become consistently profitable, at some point you are going to get above the radar of the SB company, and it becomes more and more in their interests for you not to be so profitable, or to start losing.
Since Prospreads (and FXCM) offer a DMA service, at least in theory, it is not particularly in their interests for you to lose; if anything they should want you to be successful so that you carry on trading. The representative from FXCM who posts on T2W has said explicitly that they have no interest in your losing. I trust that this is the same with Prospreads. [Later: yes it is; found this in their betting guide:
On the face of it then, they would appear to have much to offer to a spread better which the other companies don't. What it is actually like in practice though, I don't know.
Prospreads appear to be offering Level 2 with their SB account. Can this really be true? I asked and they very promptly replied that the minimum account size is £2,500, although that is only on opening it. If it falls below that while trading that's ok apparently. If I have understood correctly, with FXCM you only get level 2 with their premium offering, and that's not a SB account (so no tax advantage, although there may be other advantages, like spreads, offset potentially by commissions). The minimum account opening size for the FXCM SB account is even smaller - £300, and for this you get DMA, although no Level 2.
As I asked in the FXCM thread, to get DMA access with the tax advantages of SB seems ideal on the face of it. Where is the catch? With Prospreads, it would appear to be minimum bet size, which is 1 lot size, which is I believe e.g. $10 for EUR/USD. It does rather imply you need a substantial account in order to practice sound money management (and I know a lot of people on T2W say you should have a substantial account in any case to trade properly).
I think montmorencyt2w put it well enough there counter_violent. It's not that i'm trying to run before I can walk, it's just that as I have read more and more about lower level SB companies, it seems the larger your own profits become, that more 'errors' and obstacles seem to arise, which if anything is just a frustration.
I am someone who likes to plan in advance, this especially applies in my trading, so I like to have an idea of what options are available to me in the next couple of years.
If SB companies are based around the underlying market then surely there is no such thing as Level 2? Maybe i'm getting mixed up but it doesn't make sense how that could work.
montmorencyt2w
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You got me.
From what I've read/seen on T2W (and links) about it, it seems like it's not as useful as it once was anyway, although would still provide more insight into how the market works than the fairly blinkered view we get through our usual SB platform. Or so I presume.
From what i am hearing ProSpreads are going to lower their initial deposit from £2500 to £1000.
bet size stays the same as in 1 lot though.
montmorencyt2w
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Hm....should be interesting. Isn't their minimum margin £1000 (or maybe it's $1000). Doesn't give a lot of room for manoeuvre!
(Not that I'm saying the margin needs to be less, just that the account size needs to be much bigger for that size of minimum trade). Slightly odd to reduce it if they are supposed to be appealing to the pro end of the market.
Perhaps lowering the account deposit actually requires people to put in more. If you can credit an account with the exact amount that's needed for minimum margin, it won't take long before they give you a margin call. Suddenly you have to put in £3000 more just to cover your £1000...
Or maybe ProSpreads are fair with Margin call, i'm not sure as i've not used them. I imagine they wouldn't pay too much attention to a few grand in the red.
ProSpreads
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First of all we dont allow any client to go in the red. We have lowerd initial deposit to £1000, for intra day trading we charge a 5th of the o/n margin. As for account balance we do let clients trade with funds well under £1000 but with tight stops.Perhaps lowering the account deposit actually requires people to put in more. If you can credit an account with the exact amount that's needed for minimum margin, it won't take long before they give you a margin call. Suddenly you have to put in £3000 more just to cover your £1000...
Or maybe ProSpreads are fair with Margin call, i'm not sure as i've not used them. I imagine they wouldn't pay too much attention to a few grand in the red.
montmorencyt2w
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So can you give an example trade of these tight stops, i.e. for a stop of "x", trading at "y" per pip, what would be the margin (on a typical instrument, let's say cable).
What leverage would this represent?
I don't quite see how it's possible to trade with an account size of £1,000 or less, using standard lots, even on less than the overnight margin.
Surely your platform is not really intended for people with <= £1000 to trade?
ProSpreads
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The stops need to be placed so the account balance does not go into deficit, so if the client had a position and had funded with £1000 we would let the run the position until the account had £200 left in the account where we would have asked them to place the stop.
The intra day margin for GBP/USD is £400 per 1 lot. If account has been funded with £1000 then you could have an open position of 2 lots.
montmorencyt2w
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Thanks for your quick reply.
So, if my memory/arithmetic is right, the standard leverage on overnight margin is about 50:1 (100,000:2000 or thereabouts), so the intraday margin leverage would be about 5X50:1 or 250:1 or thereabouts (I may be mixing dollars with £s here, so maybe it's a bit less, but perhaps not that far out?) - quite a lot for someone with a small account.
Well, maybe ok for scalpers who leave no overnight trades, but just say that Joe Newtrader leaves a GBP/USD trade open, either inadvertently or because he doesn't realise the difference between overnight and intraday. Come the witching hour his margin requirement suddenly goes up to £2000, he gets a margin call and his trade turns into a pumpkin!
I don't think you are doing newbies any favours by having reduced margins for intraday, or indeed small accounts.
"But our accounts aren't aimed at newbies" I hear you say. In that case, why do you allow people to open accounts which aren't big enough to trade with the normal margins?
BTW, you say you don't allow your clients to go into the red, but unless they are using guaranteed stops, surely this is always possible if there is a sudden extreme move against them?
ProSpreads
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It is aimed more for the intra day trader, if clients wish to run positions o/n or for long periods (which we dont charge for ) then they should be funding more money
The fast moving markets can happen this is a risk to everybody, thats why margins are there.
Its a big boys game
I have had an account with PS for a few years and mainly trade intraday with a small balance and know that rules that I can only day trade. On the odd occasion i have wanted to carry a position overnight I have had raid the piggy bank to cover the extra margin. But at least I get the oppertunity to get fair prices. Also how can they let you have a tight stop on when markets are closed? hence they need extra margin to cover the worst case. I find it as clear as daylight.
