Grey1
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Sigma bands are very very much same as VWAP strategy I have out lined in my previous posts.. it uses mean reversion technique, to a centered MA which it would make sence ..
I however can think of at least 3 reasons why VWAP strategy is more suitable to trading than sigma bands ..
http://www.janarps.com/SigmaBands.htm
I however can think of at least 3 reasons why VWAP strategy is more suitable to trading than sigma bands ..
http://www.janarps.com/SigmaBands.htm
Bigbusiness
I aint got a clue how they are calculated, but I can give you a link to the chartscript code. If you can make something of it!
http://www.wealth-lab.com/cgi-bin/WealthLab.DLL/editsystem?id=21789
I aint got a clue how they are calculated, but I can give you a link to the chartscript code. If you can make something of it!
http://www.wealth-lab.com/cgi-bin/WealthLab.DLL/editsystem?id=21789
stevet said:
Personally I believe its better to enter before the crowd, to understand the mental environment on how people on mass operate, especially in the markets, to me entering with the crowd means ive hesitated, looking for mass opinions of others because i doubt my self, i dont doubt, i just enter, i feel that when the crowd is moving on mass the prices move on mass, i like to be in before then. I suppose the longer your time horizon the more slack you can have, but intraday waiting for the crowds is like waiting for others opinions.
jd
Bigbusiness
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Or stick them in to excel for free. If I had the brain power to work out how
I use bands around a 21day sma for longer term trading but have to agree the a lot of short term indicators can lead to confusion. But there is no harm in experimenting.
I use bands around a 21day sma for longer term trading but have to agree the a lot of short term indicators can lead to confusion. But there is no harm in experimenting.
stevet i thought that even the floor traders have a drop out rate comparable to everyone else 90-95% do you include those as professionals? or do you mean the 5% who make regular returns or the elite 1% who make bigger returns than the 5 %, I still cant see whats wrong in recognising that prices are made up of psychological factors, the market is collective human behaviour and i would of thought professionals would be dumping on the crowd followers and buying when the bloods running in the street. I suppose you could see it as being 1st in, 2nd in and last in, i guess it depends on an individuals perception of what he or she perceives to be happening in relation to prices and how an individuals mental environment translates it, i feel that it does require an objective view on the action and the objectivity perceived all depends on the mental structure that an individual has in place, to be able to execute a trade without fearing, "hang on a minute whats everybody else thinking"
stevet i have a question, when do you perceive that the crowd has acted? and do you internalise it vocally or do you do it on auto pilot through perhaps subconscious recognition of market behaviour based on your experience/exposure to price action? and if you use charts ,pattern recognition.
jd
stevet i have a question, when do you perceive that the crowd has acted? and do you internalise it vocally or do you do it on auto pilot through perhaps subconscious recognition of market behaviour based on your experience/exposure to price action? and if you use charts ,pattern recognition.
jd
jsd
when i say professionals in the context of how most people here on TW2 look at trading - I tend to mean and only mean full time futures traders trading the eminis sp or nas
thats not excluding arbers - but thats a different kettle of fish to how most learners view trading
i really dont know how many floor traders get blown out - but again that is so completly different to trading from a computer that there is no use to consider it
with regard to private individuals trading - its hard for me to consider that even 1% would make it and go onto to earn a living in the context of the hours worked and the fact they are risking their own money in order to make themselves a wage
also I feel that utilising terms such as
"objectivity perceived all depends on the mental structure"
"internalise it vocally"
"do you do it on auto pilot through perhaps subconscious recognition "
is creating noise around the real issue and distracting from the real issues
just decide if you are a gambler or a trader
gamblers can make money in the short term - but over time will always lose - by example there are a whole load of gamblers who are now sitting on profits after the last few months from longer term trading - the result of the fact that most learners in trading will find it hard to go short and therefore go long and we have have been in an uptrend for some months without a real sell off
and ironically from their success in the uptrend - learners are always the first to call the down turn - but of course markets find it hard to give up what they have made - and the consolidation period at the top of a market is a prime earning area
so those people who have made a profit are now pretty sure that whatever they are doing is the right way - but for sure - the markets giveth and the markets taketh away with interest - and over the next year they will get to add to their experience - hopefully not too expensivly
in trading you have to find an edge - something that is definable or could be written down as a formula - and that is what you do -you trade that methodology - if you dont have one - dont trade - if you have one and it works - you continue it - if it fails you find a new one
you turn up for work - do your job - and - you go home
re youir question about the crowd - the crowd has acted when the market turns up or down - no one knows what is gonna happen - but there are key timess where traders methodologies force them to trade - and when enough traders methodolgies combine in the same direction - you have the platform for a sustained move - and most of those traders just use price action - the reason being that they need a definite point in which to enter the fray
charting and pattern recognition etc works 100% in hindsight, but as useless as that is for trading, thats not why i would not use them in trading - you just dont need them
when i say professionals in the context of how most people here on TW2 look at trading - I tend to mean and only mean full time futures traders trading the eminis sp or nas
thats not excluding arbers - but thats a different kettle of fish to how most learners view trading
i really dont know how many floor traders get blown out - but again that is so completly different to trading from a computer that there is no use to consider it
with regard to private individuals trading - its hard for me to consider that even 1% would make it and go onto to earn a living in the context of the hours worked and the fact they are risking their own money in order to make themselves a wage
also I feel that utilising terms such as
"objectivity perceived all depends on the mental structure"
"internalise it vocally"
"do you do it on auto pilot through perhaps subconscious recognition "
is creating noise around the real issue and distracting from the real issues
just decide if you are a gambler or a trader
gamblers can make money in the short term - but over time will always lose - by example there are a whole load of gamblers who are now sitting on profits after the last few months from longer term trading - the result of the fact that most learners in trading will find it hard to go short and therefore go long and we have have been in an uptrend for some months without a real sell off
and ironically from their success in the uptrend - learners are always the first to call the down turn - but of course markets find it hard to give up what they have made - and the consolidation period at the top of a market is a prime earning area
so those people who have made a profit are now pretty sure that whatever they are doing is the right way - but for sure - the markets giveth and the markets taketh away with interest - and over the next year they will get to add to their experience - hopefully not too expensivly
in trading you have to find an edge - something that is definable or could be written down as a formula - and that is what you do -you trade that methodology - if you dont have one - dont trade - if you have one and it works - you continue it - if it fails you find a new one
you turn up for work - do your job - and - you go home
re youir question about the crowd - the crowd has acted when the market turns up or down - no one knows what is gonna happen - but there are key timess where traders methodologies force them to trade - and when enough traders methodolgies combine in the same direction - you have the platform for a sustained move - and most of those traders just use price action - the reason being that they need a definite point in which to enter the fray
charting and pattern recognition etc works 100% in hindsight, but as useless as that is for trading, thats not why i would not use them in trading - you just dont need them
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stevet said:
hmmm, I really do feel that the mental framework of the trader is more important than the actual method he or she may employ in the market, every single thing in our lives we experience in the physical environment outside of ourselves we convert into non physical mental positive or negative charged energy, these experiences we are exposed to form our belief systems, which are very RIGID and structured. Now people who trade the markets bring their rigid and stuctured belief systems and are trying to use that to be succsseful in the markets, which is anything far from rigid and structured, hence it is our mental stucture that we have to adapt in order to be or trade objectively outside of our Historically formed belief stucture, our belief system will filter out information that doesn't fit in with our beliefs, this operates at subconscious levels.
Therefore we are blocking information which is present in the physical environment (markets), because we know what we know, (BELIEFS) and people feel threatened when they have to challenge Beliefs that they may have formed and used since they came into being. They close the door to learn new knowledge and ways and to perceive the physical environment (markets) objectively.
If you feel that you are ever defending an opinion (belief) you are closing the option of being able to perceive all the information that is available in your physical environment (markets) objectively.
stevet said:
The edge in trading cannot be written down, because its non physical- the edge is you.
I know trading and gambling have great similarities ie in the sense that they both expose the individual to the same Psychological intermittent positive re-enforcement , eg. lose, lose, WIN etc. Many academics still believe the markets are random, but they are not, what they represent is the mental mindset of the crowd, crowd psychology in action, perpetual fluidity.
But im still open to learning.
and im sure that the most successful traders wouldnt be concerned if they are labelled traders or gamblers, after all that says nothing about them, yet it does clearly define the person(mental mindset) who has said it.
jd
Jsd
I have stopped reading these boards so much as the constant bickering seems to be taking over & as entertaining as it is.....it gets a little boring after a while.
just want to say your last post was one of the most useful & refreshing things I have read since registering on this website.
I think the point about whether '' U is right'' rather than ''WHO is right'' is a much more important one.
Fair Play
Jay
I have stopped reading these boards so much as the constant bickering seems to be taking over & as entertaining as it is.....it gets a little boring after a while.
just want to say your last post was one of the most useful & refreshing things I have read since registering on this website.
I think the point about whether '' U is right'' rather than ''WHO is right'' is a much more important one.
Fair Play
Jay
You seem to think that you're the boss of these forums Finlayson!
I think maybe we better take this OUTSIDE!!
HAHA...Just kidding. I just love the idea of taking board disputes to a vitual fighting platform which runs on the site, and other members could watch...place bets....comment on the fight in a seperate 'chat column', running down the side of the 'fight screen'....the possiblities are endless.
Keano (aka. one punch Keane) (aka. kid presentable) aka(iron keane killer)
I think maybe we better take this OUTSIDE!!
HAHA...Just kidding. I just love the idea of taking board disputes to a vitual fighting platform which runs on the site, and other members could watch...place bets....comment on the fight in a seperate 'chat column', running down the side of the 'fight screen'....the possiblities are endless.
Keano (aka. one punch Keane) (aka. kid presentable) aka(iron keane killer)
neil
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Nice Cat by the way
You are so spot on Finlayson( Jay) and JSD.
Perhaps thats why so many wannabe traders fail - they seek success by their pointless pursuit of the latest "winning method" or "system."
But put little effort into the major element of trading success - the development of their inner "Self."
However I must be careful what I write since it seems I now attract rude, and abusive private messages.
Finlayson said:
You are so spot on Finlayson( Jay) and JSD.
Perhaps thats why so many wannabe traders fail - they seek success by their pointless pursuit of the latest "winning method" or "system."
But put little effort into the major element of trading success - the development of their inner "Self."
However I must be careful what I write since it seems I now attract rude, and abusive private messages.
Neil,
very true....the older I get the more faith I put in ''u get what u expect''! it is all down to how we perceive things.
.........p.s dont worry my friend, when sharky gets this sorted u'll be able to track em down , kick their a** & humiliate them in front of all.
Keano (one punch)
yes the more I think of it the more wondrous an Idea it seems.......could be huge, surprised there isn't more support.
Maybe their all just chicken
Jay
very true....the older I get the more faith I put in ''u get what u expect''! it is all down to how we perceive things.
.........p.s dont worry my friend, when sharky gets this sorted u'll be able to track em down , kick their a** & humiliate them in front of all.
Keano (one punch)
yes the more I think of it the more wondrous an Idea it seems.......could be huge, surprised there isn't more support.
Maybe their all just chicken
Jay
neil
Legendary member
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Killer Keano
Thanks for that.
I know who he is. I might pay keano a fiver to go round and kick his lazy butt
Finlayson said:Neil,
very true....the older I get the more faith I put in ''u get what u expect''! it is all down to how we perceive things.
.........p.s dont worry my friend, when sharky gets this sorted u'll be able to track em down , kick their a** & humiliate them in front of all.
Keano (one punch)
yes the more I think of it the more wondrous an Idea it seems.......could be huge, surprised there isn't more support.
Maybe their all just chicken
Jay
Thanks for that.
I know who he is. I might pay keano a fiver to go round and kick his lazy butt
jsd
sorry - you are right - i thought there were only two choices, but there are three
trader , gambler or psuedo philosipher
the first one earns their wage, the second loses their own captial and the third - does not trade or gamble - but enjoys being involved - so to that extent they are a winner
sorry - you are right - i thought there were only two choices, but there are three
trader , gambler or psuedo philosipher
the first one earns their wage, the second loses their own captial and the third - does not trade or gamble - but enjoys being involved - so to that extent they are a winner
