libertas
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Why would I stick my hand in a crocodiles mouth for a peanut? 😛
I can't ever recall saying "a lot".
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"Take control with Risk & Money Management"[/QUOTE]
Shall We All Just Close Our Spread Bet Accounts??
- Thread starter Truth Seeker
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Why would I stick my hand in a crocodiles mouth for a peanut? 😛
I can't ever recall saying "a lot".
____________
"Take control with Risk & Money Management"[/QUOTE]
I bet you wouldn't.🙂
No you are right, sorry about that. But this statement is even worse."(loosely based on an underlying instrument)"
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"Take control with Risk & Money Management"
libertas
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Yes that statement was a bit harsh and I admitted that. What I was trying to indicate was that the SB market price has a flexible relationship to the actual futures price. This is why I mentioned comparing the two separate charts together 'live'.
The gap between the two prices does not remain stable throughout the day. Now why would this be the case? :idea:
Pat494
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The skewing bias the SBs can exert will magnify their profits if done correctly.
We are. I think DMA is the way forward, you get taxed 40% in the UK if you make more than 50k a year, but you get the peace of mind that when you enter/exit a trade you won't be trapped and trading is all about psychology; if you don't trust your spread betting racketeers how can you confidently enter a trade? Spreadbetting companies seem to think our hard earned money is theirs to pilfer, like trading is gambling so we get what we deserve, screw that. And forget about HFT playing havoc with the markets, spreadbetting has taken all the retail liquidity out of the markets, made them easier for the market mafia to manipulate. Spreadbetting is killing the markets, not just the machines.
capitalspreads
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wow what a lot of total b***ks
we 'freeze platforms' 'slip to high heaven' 'reject trades' blah blah yeah.. and Area 51 holds all the missing people from Atlantis and George Bush ordered the 9/11 bombings...
just a small bit of thinking about the total idiocy of suggesting deliberate 'freezing platform (or price ticket)' as it suggests that a SB or CFD provider knows which way a market is about to go !?!. If they froze the platform then the next price (or subsequent price action) has a 50/50 chance of actually being better for the client.
gooder72
there never was much 'retail' in the derivatives markets (it was far too expensive). People still believe that spread betting companies 'move the markets' .. sorry guys but revenue from equities (which is the only market illiquid enough for a spread betting company to actually influence) is such a tiny proportion of revenue that (in the main) SB companies only offer share prices as a bolt on service. The only serious money made in equities is with the really big SB companies over the financing of open positions.
virtually all SB/cfds volumes are in the major indices/currencies/gold/oil.... if someone is going to suggest that SB companies are big enough to move these markets then they really are living in a fantasy world
several exchanges have tried cfd style DMA products and they have all flopped (latest total wipeout is the ASX cfd exchange). The fact is that 'trading' clients actually seem to prefer the certainty of liquidity from the market maker platforms than the uncertainty from an exchange.
we 'freeze platforms' 'slip to high heaven' 'reject trades' blah blah yeah.. and Area 51 holds all the missing people from Atlantis and George Bush ordered the 9/11 bombings...
just a small bit of thinking about the total idiocy of suggesting deliberate 'freezing platform (or price ticket)' as it suggests that a SB or CFD provider knows which way a market is about to go !?!. If they froze the platform then the next price (or subsequent price action) has a 50/50 chance of actually being better for the client.
gooder72
there never was much 'retail' in the derivatives markets (it was far too expensive). People still believe that spread betting companies 'move the markets' .. sorry guys but revenue from equities (which is the only market illiquid enough for a spread betting company to actually influence) is such a tiny proportion of revenue that (in the main) SB companies only offer share prices as a bolt on service. The only serious money made in equities is with the really big SB companies over the financing of open positions.
virtually all SB/cfds volumes are in the major indices/currencies/gold/oil.... if someone is going to suggest that SB companies are big enough to move these markets then they really are living in a fantasy world
several exchanges have tried cfd style DMA products and they have all flopped (latest total wipeout is the ASX cfd exchange). The fact is that 'trading' clients actually seem to prefer the certainty of liquidity from the market maker platforms than the uncertainty from an exchange.
Explain why sb companies inc yours have a bad reputation for bad fills and slippage compared to real dma then. Think about this, we trade your market so its you who are in control, so bad fills rejected trades etc is your doing, stop blaming the markets and own up or u will lose us. you have plenty of unhappy clients too,and with your attitude I'm not surprised.
'When you enter/exit a trade you won't be trapped...' Are you sure about that? SB has its problems, but there's probably as much or more potential for being trapped in a trade in the 'real' market.
capitalspreads
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ross is right
a few months ago the LIFFE exchange with all your beloved DMA was down for nearly the entire session. the markets that day had a really big down move.
if you have a position you really are trapped as you have absolutely no come back. (you cannot complain to the regulators, you cannot phone up to get a quote [both of which you can do with a spread betting provider].... you were, in fact, stuffed) the SB companies were able to move their pricing to feed off the cash market quotes and quote all day
in the main SBs have a bad reputation because when people lose money a certain number blame their broker (and then of these an even smaller number then go on a crusade on comment threads such as this). with an SB you can see your counterparty with DMA in general you have no idea who is on the other side. The same percentages in DMA and SB lose money (this has been shown in independent surveys over and over again)>
in DMA the vast bulk of your trades will be with Market Makers (i.e. banks and> brokers).... it is just that you cannot see them. Do u think they market make as a sort of charitable excercise? They market make for exactly the same reason we do. taking on retail client activity and being the right side of every trade (i.e clients trade on the bid or offer) gives you the edge that is needed to make money. Yes on DMA you may be the lucky man to sell the high on a move or buy the low but, honestly, how many of you can ever claim to have managed this and then again you pay quite a high price for this priviledge. I have been trading the markets for a lot longer than most of the people on these threads and have also traded on a vast array of different platform types. In all honesty the fills i get on SB and cfd platforms are no better or worse than on the DMA market (often better as you generally get the fill no matter what the liquidity is on the open market).
in the end a SB company never forces anyone to trade (or even open an account). If you think that a company has really practised a dark art then immediately close your account and go elsewhere.
a few months ago the LIFFE exchange with all your beloved DMA was down for nearly the entire session. the markets that day had a really big down move.
if you have a position you really are trapped as you have absolutely no come back. (you cannot complain to the regulators, you cannot phone up to get a quote [both of which you can do with a spread betting provider].... you were, in fact, stuffed) the SB companies were able to move their pricing to feed off the cash market quotes and quote all day
in the main SBs have a bad reputation because when people lose money a certain number blame their broker (and then of these an even smaller number then go on a crusade on comment threads such as this). with an SB you can see your counterparty with DMA in general you have no idea who is on the other side. The same percentages in DMA and SB lose money (this has been shown in independent surveys over and over again)>
in DMA the vast bulk of your trades will be with Market Makers (i.e. banks and> brokers).... it is just that you cannot see them. Do u think they market make as a sort of charitable excercise? They market make for exactly the same reason we do. taking on retail client activity and being the right side of every trade (i.e clients trade on the bid or offer) gives you the edge that is needed to make money. Yes on DMA you may be the lucky man to sell the high on a move or buy the low but, honestly, how many of you can ever claim to have managed this and then again you pay quite a high price for this priviledge. I have been trading the markets for a lot longer than most of the people on these threads and have also traded on a vast array of different platform types. In all honesty the fills i get on SB and cfd platforms are no better or worse than on the DMA market (often better as you generally get the fill no matter what the liquidity is on the open market).
in the end a SB company never forces anyone to trade (or even open an account). If you think that a company has really practised a dark art then immediately close your account and go elsewhere.
capitalspreads
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tar
of course not BUT there must be someone on the other side. If you hit 5025 in the FTSE future on DMA you have a pretty good chance of somebody getting there before you. In which case you will not get the deal but will just sit there with your 5025 sell order sitting on the exchange. This happens very very frequently on exchanges (especially FX markets). This is the equivalent of being refused a deal by the SB dealer. In reality of course the huge (massive) bulk of clients are just on auto fill. and so will get the deal done on SB when they might miss it on the DMA exchange
i just came to this thread as it appeared to be getting a little too extreme (and all threeads need a counterpoint even if it is from such as myself who is , naturally, hardly unbiased either)
i will sign off here and stick to the CS thread
of course not BUT there must be someone on the other side. If you hit 5025 in the FTSE future on DMA you have a pretty good chance of somebody getting there before you. In which case you will not get the deal but will just sit there with your 5025 sell order sitting on the exchange. This happens very very frequently on exchanges (especially FX markets). This is the equivalent of being refused a deal by the SB dealer. In reality of course the huge (massive) bulk of clients are just on auto fill. and so will get the deal done on SB when they might miss it on the DMA exchange
i just came to this thread as it appeared to be getting a little too extreme (and all threeads need a counterpoint even if it is from such as myself who is , naturally, hardly unbiased either)
i will sign off here and stick to the CS thread
Fair do's...I've actually heard good things about Capital Spreads, had them recommended to me from a trusted source, but I've some shocking experiences trading with Finspreads. I shorted the ftse one friday night at around 6000, logged on Monday morning to find the ftse apparently at 11000 and my trade supposedly tanking to the tune of 5 grand, took me over an hour to get through to them on the phone, when they eventually said there was a "problem" with their data feed. In fact I was 100 points up. If open positions are meddled with it will reduce a traders statistical edge to nil. That was the worst example but there was plenty more. It's true that several times when I could not exit a trade it worked out in my favour, but when scalping more often than not speed is of the essence, so I was forced to alter my strategy somewhat. I used them for 3 years and the dealer intervention was rabid. I know most tyros are clueless get rich quick muppets, and they blame the spreadbetting firms for their stupidity, but once you've sussed your risk management/time frame and whatever system you're comfortable with the tricks on the other end become more apparent. Though I am NOT saying Capital Spreads do it.
Amateurs who were never going to survive more than six months at max are fair game but it would seem folly to allow skilled winning traders to get away. Aren't they the goose that laid the golden egg, even after tax and commissions have been factored in?
True, but not until you're trading some serious volume. My piffling pennies will hardly clog the system up.
Even if it's only pennies you'd still be trapped if the market has spiked off in the wrong direction and no-one is interested!
The only time you might rarely experience slippage in dma is at high impact times, but with sb u get slipped all the time so they need to explain to us why this is and no bs as some of us can see straight through it.
When u get a real trading platform together and stop the poor fills I will be happy to eat in to your profits as long ad you don't close my account.
If you can trade DMA with perfect fills, no slippage and narrow spreads, why do you even bother with SB?