Self taught? Impossible!

DionysusToast said:
Joe - where have you been?

Nice to see you here again....
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Good to see you too. But sorry I can't remember if we were friends or enemies when I left. I took some time off to do some cooking - like letting my ideas simmer in a slow cooking pot for a bit. No, I have not lost all my money if anyone is wondering/hoping. I am back for now to try out my slightly more matured ideas, matured like cheese you know - takes time.
 
new_trader said:
I have never had any direct mentoring/tutoring and I am 100% confident with my trading and investment methodologies, there is nothing new anyone can teach me.
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Lol coming from a guy who joined up as new_trader a few years ago it's a bit confident... how many million do you have?

And RE the question, yes people can become self taught traders, for anyone who does not believe this the MASSIVE thing you are missing is the simple fact that screen time = learning. When i started to trade EUR/USD i had no idea about how she moved, the more screen time i have the better i get, pattern recognition means 100x more than any book. But in reality anyone who even watches a youtube video on S&R, reads a book on trading, listens to advice from an expert is not completely self taught.
 
Self taught trading and win is possible in trading as well. Because each and everything is available online related with trading. So it is more easy.
 
Doomberg said:
But in reality anyone who even watches a youtube video on S&R, reads a book on trading, listens to advice from an expert is not completely self taught.
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You are right of course..............The original argument made by some was that any would-be trader was entirely deluding himself...in fact impossible
if he thought he could be profitable long term without a professional trader as a teacher and mentor.
Then all sorts of silly comparisons were made with surgeons, airline pilots and tree loppers.
Well we have here a golfer who has won the US Masters without professional training.
Something I would have considered impossible.
Now there's probably some media beat up to it, nevertheless I would be certain he paid attention to how others did it.
 
new_trader said:
Explain the logic behind this statement.
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Well personally i feel that i learn in all aspect of life daily, if not i'd already look like a fitness model, i'd have virgins feeding me grapes, i'd have millions in the bank etc etc because if i had nothing else to be taught i'd know how to have absolutely everything i wanted. Same with trading really, if there was nothing new you could be taught then surely you'd succeed at the highest level? If you haven't then your missing certain things, and the only way to get them would be to learn them
 
MoonRocket said:
You are right of course..............The original argument made by some was that any would-be trader was entirely deluding himself...in fact impossible
if he thought he could be profitable long term without a professional trader as a teacher and mentor.
Then all sorts of silly comparisons were made with surgeons, airline pilots and tree loppers.
Well we have here a golfer who has won the US Masters without professional training.
Something I would have considered impossible.
Now there's probably some media beat up to it, nevertheless I would be certain he paid attention to how others did it.
Click to expand...

Alex Hope is the equivalent of the golf dude, but in the trading world :LOL: :clap: :cool:
 
Patricia12 said:
Self taught trading and win is possible in trading as well. Because each and everything is available online related with trading. So it is more easy.
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newbie : youre a trader can you teach me?

pro: "nah, mate, nuthin to it.....look, each and everything is.....online......(much) more easy"

newbie : cool!

pro : whispers .....and pop goes the weasel

newbie : google, glug glug, google, lose, sweat, swear, lose, google, library. google, glug glug, lose again, feel better, know more, google glug glug, sweat, swear, lose, ......everything, each and everything - is - online - more - easy - everything - easy - ah, holy grail, lose, swear, mutter, random chat site, swear mutter, argue, sidetrack .......knock knock

Pro : so, hows it going?

newbie : yeah, gotta handle on it mate, no worries, cool lingo the works, sussed, .....walks off, swear, mutter, argues, loses

months later

Pro : so you been at it awhile, how ya going? Don't seem to see much of ya, gotchya head down eh, studying ?

newbie : ah, yeah, ya know, supps n rez n stuff, simple really, got that off the net......walks off, head down, mutter, lose, argue in chat room, waste time sidetracking, waste money on books that confuse but have superb clarity of confusion, gets into philoso-filloso-big-sayings, lose.....quietly walks away

phone rings

Pro : did i tell ya its the bit between the philloso-flossy-err-big-sayings, between the books diagonal lines, the mythical supports n resistances, between the self-egrandising in chat rooms, the bit between two holy grails, it's that bit you need to learn.....

newbie : broke(n), too late, click!
 
Doomberg said:
if there was nothing new you could be taught then surely you'd succeed at the highest level? If you haven't then your missing certain things, and the only way to get them would be to learn them
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The argument is whether you can only be "taught" what you need to know or whether you learn them on your own. There are people saying categorically that you can only learn what you need to know from someone else and then back this up with specious Zen type philosophical arguments which aren't grounded in any real logic.

Not sure what you define as success at the highest level but I'm sure everyone has their own personal definition when it comes to trading performance. According to you, unless a trader has got millions in the bank right now then there is more for them to learn. In that case, I will only speak to traders with millions in the bank because if they don't they have got nothing new to teach me.

Have you got millions in the bank? Don't bother replying unless you do.
 
new_trader said:
The argument is whether you can only be "taught" what you need to know or whether you learn them on your own.
Click to expand...

So are we discussing the delivery mechanism here?

All information in books & forums is from somebody, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Are we saying you are 'self-taught' if you use other people's information as long as this information wasn't delivered via a trainer?

Or are we saying that 'self-taught' means using no information from any third party whatsoever?

'Cause I'm sure that golf chap didn't discover the rules of the game by trial and error.
 
new_trader said:
The argument is whether you can only be "taught" what you need to know or whether you learn them on your own. There are people saying categorically that you can only learn what you need to know from someone else and then back this up with specious Zen type philosophical argument which aren't grounded in any real logic.

Not sure what you define as success at the highest level but I'm sure everyone has their own personal definition when it comes to trading performance. According to you, unless a trader has got millions in the bank right now then there is more for them to learn. In that case, I will only speak to traders with millions in the bank because if they don't they have got nothing new to teach me.
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i think there's a great deal of self-imposed stupidity in the retail sector, mostly, it starts with people viewing the auction as a static thing to prepare themselves against, you know, like the tree lopper and carpentar, so if you want to go down that road, think of pulling stuff off the web like that with this: your an apprentice mechanic, you go onto the web cos your task is to look up car engines, you know youre on the right track cos, well, it's a for a car, duh! What you dont know the boss can tell you and when there's no boss you make all the mistakes until the engine runs

A newbie, without the intellect or the psyche to conduct yourself with the correct approach, in the questions you want answered, there is far more ruin than most chat sites would have you believe unless you have the trade version of a boss to guide you.....seriously, how many people do you know that have the wherewithal to know how all the parts of the auction "engine" should go together? How can you learn off the web when the engine bites back.

a strong rule would be if youre ever going to compare trading to anything it must be the equivalent of a gold ball that can rip the wallet out the back of your pants!

basically, philoso-fillo-big sayings aside, you can find all the parts on the web (eventually, i spose) but none of "it" can teach you to understand concepts or positioning ideas that are live because it cannot ask you IF you see another trader positioning, or WHEN or WHERE your opposition is likely to act or not act, these things do not provide active context so you have to conceptualise in the moment what that is and very few people can do that in a live position where something of real value is at stake, there;s a double whammy happening which instantly breaks down the percentage of newbies who can deal with the concept of the flow let alone the realtime event as it's happening and mostly that even is happening TO them not for them

if youre in the minority, you are lateral in your questions, likely you'll do 'ok' and i know a mere handful of people who can think and ask laterally.....

there is no likening with the trade auction......you either understand or you dont......anyone can learn to draw lines

there's a lot of software that can make all the diff now, sure, i've seen some very good software in the last year, the thing is, the guys who teach the newbies how to use the software are not teaching them how to trade, theyre teaching them how to use a proprietary red-sell-green-buy system so someone could teach themselves that system, for sure.....that's not learning how an auction is functioning.......so there are ways to make money, there are things to buy that'll give some clues and make some dosh.....eventually, there is a mean, a reversion that most traders, that i've ever seen, whom, without understanding and guidance from a senior trader/mentor, that mean is a low outcome for the trader who skips understanding the auction. The mean occurs because without the right education all traders revert to normal human reactions.....if you are self taught you have a huge propensity to spiral inwards in a trade and this is like nothing else you do, maybe close to sport but only in so much as there is a person working harder than you to beat you.......that's it......the chump on the other side of the trade is looking to beat you......oh, yeah, sell at the high where resistance is cos everyone sells at the high where resistance is...except that utter bahstard who just took price through your ideas of the universe that you got off the web.......

tell and promote to a numpty, numpty ideas and they'll do exactly what you say if they think your words have credibility.....it's the easiest rout they'll take, they'll feel smart doing it and "it" won't have cost you ("new_trader") a single thing!
 
Joules MM1 said:
i think there's a great deal of self-imposed stupidity in the retail sector, mostly, it starts with people viewing the auction as a static thing to prepare themselves against, you know, like the tree lopper and carpentar,
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or the guy who recently "self-taught" himself to hit a golf ball without a coach.....riiiight......yes, it's possible........just like all the other amateurs who dont have a coach who are also winning trophies and oodles of money, yeah, sure......err, naturally.......

just like all the other amateurs who are now secure that 'he did it, i'll do it' and you'll never hear from them or see them win anything.....you can mos def liken trading to that !
 
​
Joules MM1 said:
or the guy who recently "self-taught" himself to hit a golf ball without a coach.....riiiight......yes, it's possible........just like all the other amateurs who dont have a coach who are also winning trophies and oodles of money, yeah, sure......err, naturally.......

just like all the other amateurs who are now secure that 'he did it, i'll do it' and you'll never hear from them or see them win anything.....you can mos def liken trading to that !
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Joulies mate....I'd say winning the Masters would be infinitely harder then trading for a living. Were not talking about being the best.
Were just talking about making a living out trading.
There are probably hundreds of self taught tennis players and golfers making a nice living from their sport, but we will never hear of them.
I'd venture forth that most motorcycle riders are self taught, although most of 'em start riding before they can walk.
 
DionysusToast said:
So are we discussing the delivery mechanism here?

All information in books & forums is from somebody, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Are we saying you are 'self-taught' if you use other people's information as long as this information wasn't delivered via a trainer?

Or are we saying that 'self-taught' means using no information from any third party whatsoever?

'Cause I'm sure that golf chap didn't discover the rules of the game by trial and error.
Click to expand...
Toastie......Your original argument was..... all the books (except paradoxically a golfers book) were useful for only wiping ones bum with and even then they weren't much use.
So......don't start jibbering on about "delivery mechanisms".
 
MoonRocket said:
​
Joulies mate....I'd say winning the Masters would be infinitely harder than trading for a living.
Click to expand...

That maybe true, although, i suspect you neither make a living trading nor have won a masters.....therein lays the challenge as that also applies to newbies......

....with respect
 
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