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FAQ Realistically, How much Money can I Expect to Make?

Mactheriverrat said:
You find a system that works . Then wash , rinse and repeat until you find a better system.
Click to expand...

The term wash and rinse in trading is a description of a set of market activities conducted by a major player with sufficient financial resources to effectively clean out positions of smaller players, typically retail. Those on the receiving end normally describes it as manipulation. Regardless of our personal view on the ethical nature of such activities, it is a prevailing nature of the trading business. Contrary to popular criticism, the objective in washing stops is not limited to simply a stop run for the limited sake of it but is part of an overall trade strategy that big players adopt to build a position at a wholesale level. The underlying reason is that due to the size of their positions, they need to work on their order to effectively build on price points without causing a run on prices. Their effort would include running stops and selling in order to buy and repeat the process until they complete their order and hence the term wash, rinse and repeat.
 
Brumby said:
The term wash and rinse in trading is a description of a set of market activities conducted by a major player with sufficient financial resources to effectively clean out positions of smaller players, typically retail. Those on the receiving end normally describes it as manipulation. Regardless of our personal view on the ethical nature of such activities, it is a prevailing nature of the trading business. Contrary to popular criticism, the objective in washing stops is not limited to simply a stop run for the limited sake of it but is part of an overall trade strategy that big players adopt to build a position at a wholesale level. The underlying reason is that due to the size of their positions, they need to work on their order to effectively build on price points without causing a run on prices. Their effort would include running stops and selling in order to buy and repeat the process until they complete their order and hence the term wash, rinse and repeat.
Click to expand...

I was using wash , rinse and repeat in generalization of trading. Find a simple that works and keep using it until you figure out something better to use.
 
Mactheriverrat said:
You find a system that works . Then wash , rinse and repeat until you find a better system.
Click to expand...
Hi Essentially if you go into trading with the aim to make money then all that will happen is that you will lose. All self thinkers do lose, they never advertise it (not my fault I'm a pillock guv). :cheesy::clap::cheesy::clap::cheesy::clap::cool:
 
blusignals said:
Actually, it really just depends on how smart you are. If you know how to work with data analytically and know when to move or hold with strategy, then it's possible to be as rich as Warren Buffett.
Click to expand...

are you sure?
so you think that almost nobody(incl. you) cannot working with data analytically?
How many person do you know that are as rich as the Warren Buffet?
 
blusignals said:
Actually, it really just depends on how smart you are. If you know how to work with data analytically and know when to move or hold with strategy, then it's possible to be as rich as Warren Buffett.
Click to expand...

I agree with Trader Vinner here

all smart data analysts should be as rich as Warren Buffet then....

dont think they are dude....:cool:

N
 
In blusignals defence they state it’s ‘possible’, and of course he’s 100% correct. It is possible.

As traders on a trading website we should be fully aware of the difference between a given outcome (probability) and a possibility. Having said that, I would agree that the probability is very slim.

Have a great Sunday.
 
Tytus_Barnowl said:
Hi Essentially if you go into trading with the aim to make money then all that will happen is that you will lose. All self thinkers do lose, they never advertise it (not my fault I'm a pillock guv). :cheesy::clap::cheesy::clap::cheesy::clap::cool:
Click to expand...

Like I said - Find a simple system that one can make Profit- THE REPEAT.
 
Trader Vinner said:
are you sure?
so you think that almost nobody(incl. you) cannot working with data analytically?
How many person do you know that are as rich as the Warren Buffet?
Click to expand...

Well you need to learn tools like econometrics, R, statistics to be able to conduct meaningful analysis. Otherwise its pointless even if you have good data.
 
hatemypips said:
Well you need to learn tools like econometrics, R, statistics to be able to conduct meaningful analysis. Otherwise its pointless even if you have good data.
Click to expand...
Show me one person who has done this and is as rich as Warren?

You can learn all those languages (I know many of them) but they are useless if you can't derive a strategy. I have worked at many investment banks, a couple of asset managers, and currently at a major stock exchange who calculates the dax and other indices (over 8000). In all of that exposure, I have seen financial models applied in code in various languages and price testing strategies. None of them do what you talk of because it doesn't work.

Outside of financial models all you have are algorithms that look for patterns in data. While this may be far more precise and surface information previously unknown, it isn't going to be the basis of a strategy. The most successful ones out there that have applied machine learning have added their own rule sets based on experience and include fundamental drivers in the rule sets. Everyone that's tried to apply this approach using just price data have either failed, found partial success, or short term fantastic results. They all however fail over the long haul.

If you think about it, the algorithms are really just a computerised flavour of the thought process undertaken by your average retail trader. It's a pointless endeavour because the flaw in the design is assuming price can tell you what the drivers of price is when it's just a historical print of the outcomes of drivers. For the data to be meaningful you have to include data points that occur before price reacts and only then will a meaningful strategy be possible. Ray Dalio did this and his trading engine by his own admittance makes better decisions then he does. Of course its the culmination of his rules applied to market driving data that makes the magic happen. The computer just follows a logical path based on the rules.

Trust me when I tell you this is snake oil without the correct inclusion of market drivers.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
FXX said:
Show me one person who has done this and is as rich as Warren?

You can learn all those languages (I know many of them) but they are useless if you can't derive a strategy. I have worked at many investment banks, a couple of asset managers, and currently at a major stock exchange who calculates the dax and other indices (over 8000). In all of that exposure, I have seen financial models applied in code in various languages and price testing strategies. None of them do what you talk of because it doesn't work.

Outside of financial models all you have are algorithms that look for patterns in data. While this may be far more precise and surface information previously unknown, it isn't going to be the basis of a strategy. The most successful ones out there that have applied machine learning have added their own rule sets based on experience and include fundamental drivers in the rule sets. Everyone that's tried to apply this approach using just price data have either failed, found partial success, or short term fantastic results. They all however fail over the long haul.

If you think about it, the algorithms are really just a computerised flavour of the thought process undertaken by your average retail trader. It's a pointless endeavour because the flaw in the design is assuming price can tell you what the drivers of price is when it's just a historical print of the outcomes of drivers. For the data to be meaningful you have to include data points that occur before price reacts and only then will a meaningful strategy be possible. Ray Dalio did this and his trading engine by his own admittance makes better decisions then he does. Of course its the culmination of his rules applied to market driving data that makes the magic happen. The computer just follows a logical path based on the rules.

Trust me when I tell you this is snake oil without the correct inclusion of market drivers.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


agreed ........even supercomputers are still superdumb ....until you tell them the rules you wish to apply .....:smart:

creating algos and automated strategies is interesting though...it sure makes you dot every "I" and cross every "T" in a set of entry / exit trading rules

N
 
It depends on a lot how much money you are trading with, how many lots are you trading, your money management. Mostly it depends on the first two things mentioned above. It also depends on your trading strategy and how long are you keeping your position.
 
90% Traders fails due to impatience, fear, greed and negative approach if you need to get good return then think of the long-term investment
 
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If you're new to trading then I would plan to lose money for the first 2 years at least. I consider myself pretty smart. Got a first class degree in computer science from an Elite University. I've always been good at everything. Trading was a big struggle, even with a highly technical background.

Don't underestimate the challenge you face; expect to lose money while you master it.
 
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