ProphetMax, Senen Pousa - any info?

[ProphetMax Member]

. . . 2 people here have invested in ProphetMax, and it would be useful to show any information that can be dug up to verify that point or not. . . .

More are lurking. In time, hopefully more will post.

 

[ProphetMax Member]

ProphetMaxMember is their resident marketer of this scam.

Welcome to the discussion. Here is my objective:

REQUEST FOR THIS THREAD:

1. Testimonial from a dissatisfied customer.
2. Testimonial from a satisfied long term member.
3. (Former) Employee comes public as a whistle blower.
4. Documented evidence of Corporate Malfeasance.

 

[SonicSunburst]

ProphetMax have you considered showing your agreement and discuss how things transact to a Financial professional outside The Elevation Group list? You may sleep better if you verify it looks above board by another professional. SonicSunburst do you have a professional title that you'd recommend he seek?

ProphetMax is being marketed as "estoric". This is a very clever ploy designed to make clients and potential clients feel less worthy or stupid if they ask questions. All the cloak and daggers, off-shore bank accounts, etc. Even if your accountant or adviser had questions or advised against it, what would they know? They aren't part of the inner circle, of course they don't understand! It's classic cult like behaviour designed to control and nothing else.

Best case scenario.... Let's assume (& I'm not saying this is the case) that Senna is purely referring clients to legitimate 3rd party financial services. For those financial services to be legitimate they would have to contract directly with the client. The client would have account applications etc that are not subject to any qualifications or NDA. The client would receive statements direct from the financial service provider, and no-one else would be have access to the funds or be able to transact on behalf of the client, without the client appointing a POA.

Again, assuming this is what is happening, Senna & ProphetMax, being incorporated in Australia are subject to comply with both the ASIC and Corporations Acts. It's blatantly obvious that this activity falls under the definition of providing financial product advice and dealing. As ProphetMax has no AFSL nor is it a representative of one, it is at best operating an unlicensed financial service business.

For a professional opinion you could take all your paperwork to a financial services lawyer. Most will have an initial chat for free and you'll get a fair indication as to their take on what you're involved in. If you wanted further information or investigations you'll obviously have to pay for their time, but even if it cost you a grand or so it would be worth it.

 

[thepixelpusher]

For those financial services to be legitimate they would have to contract directly with the client. The client would have account applications etc that are not subject to any qualifications or NDA. The client would receive statements direct from the financial service provider,...

An important point SonicBurst. Some that are reading this may need this a clear idea as to regular procedures with a firm.

But, Pousa paints this as a an exclusive deal like those that invest tens of millions at a time get and so the broker wants to keep everything from a direct line of sight, otherwise everyone will want in. He makes it out like he's doing you a favor and you shouldn't question the secrecy...because it's needed. Do the ultra rich really get these returns and do they sign NDA's for stuff like this?

Anyone care to address this with some good thinking, other than the obvious warnings?

 

[Digital-Man]

Best case scenario.... Let's assume (& I'm not saying this is the case) that Senna is purely referring clients to legitimate 3rd party financial services. For those financial services to be legitimate they would have to contract directly with the client. The client would have account applications etc that are not subject to any qualifications or NDA. The client would receive statements direct from the financial service provider, and no-one else would be have access to the funds or be able to transact on behalf of the client, without the client appointing a POA.

This is the case. Statements are sent directly from the broker and the LPOA states that no-one else has the ability to withdraw the funds other than the customer named on the account.

Senen has stated that he checks out business associates very carefully, therefore this broker must be in his circle of business relationships. Suppose that this broker was working only with clients with $100k or more. Rather than work with a retail broker, Senen asks this broker if it would be willing to handle smaller accounts if IIC provided the customer service. There is no doubt a commission structure related to IIC being an Introducing Broker (IB), which is quite a common arrangement. There would also be fees payable to the broker on each transaction, and as pboyles stated, one should watch out for churn, but that doesn't apply in this case as the trades are quite few in number per month.

Another factor is providing the same returns to everyone. If everyone was able to choose their own broker it is impossible for everyone to have the same results due to slippage as a result of the time it would take to communicate the trading signals from the Traders to all the brokers. Having all accounts under one roof under the management of a PAMM or MAM system ensures that all trades will take place in all accounts with no lag.

One question is, as SonicSunburst has mentioned, does IIC have the documentation in place to act in this capacity, i.e. an IB.

 

[SonicSunburst]

One question is, as SonicSunburst has mentioned, does IIC have the documentation in place to act in this capacity, i.e. an IB.

The answer is No. Certainly no disclosure of such on the website, and nothing in the ASIC registers. And if clients are granting a POA to trade the account to Senna or ProphetMax, that is also an unlicensed MDA service.

There is no way around the requirement for ProphetMax & Senna to be licensed. They satisfy the "business test" by providing services with system, repetition, and continutiy.

 

[thepixelpusher]

What about the Quant Software Trading that is done by IIC directly with the clients only watching the trades? That would need to be licensed since Forex trading is a Financial Service?

Digital-Man or ProphetMax Member, does Senen have a 3rd party company handle the software Quant trading for IIC or is it in-house at IIC?

 

[Digital-Man]

Does Senen have a 3rd party company handle the software Quant trading for IIC or is it in-house at IIC?

You can run it on your own computer or subscribe to a VPS.

 

[SonicSunburst]

..... Do the ultra rich really get these returns and do they sign NDA's for stuff like this?

Anyone care to address this with some good thinking, other than the obvious warnings?

If a client is a wholesale client as defined in the Act, there are alternative investment options out there. I've seen many over the years. Some have provided outstanding returns, others have returned 0% and taken all the capital with them. It's all care and no responsibility however, there's no one to complain to when it goes wrong. And there's always full disclosure of the potential risks, returns, and investment strategy.

The most consistent returns above market rates I've seen is in private lending.

 

[thepixelpusher]

You can run it on your own computer or subscribe to a VPS.

I understand you can witness the trades via software/server link, but isn't IIC still doing the trades through their in-house software platform? Or are you running your own trades with the provided software on your own computer and trading account?

 

[Lightning McQueen]

What about the Quant Software Trading that is done by IIC directly with the clients only watching the trades? That would need to be licensed since Forex trading is a Financial Service?

Digital-Man or ProphetMax Member, does Senen have a 3rd party company handle the software Quant trading for IIC or is it in-house at IIC?

i guess its only classed as a signal service, with a fancy ponced up name to make it sound great. its only a mt4 ea, signal services are peddled everywhere, as are ea's, common as muck.

 

[thepixelpusher]

The most consistent returns above market rates I've seen is in private lending.

Is that lending people money like a bank does with interest, only private? Bear with me on this I'm a financial Newb.

 

[Digital-Man]

I understand you can witness the trades via software/server link, but isn't IIC still doing the trades through their in-house software platform?

I don't have Quant, so I am not certain, but I think you can view the trades either through the Quant software or MT4.

Or are you running your own trades with the provided software on your own computer and trading account?

Yes, you choose the broker and run the software. That is why a VPS is recommended, unless you are willing to leave your computer on during market hours and are sure it will stay up. Otherwise you may open a trade and then not close it at the right time if your computer went offline or froze up, etc.

 

[thepixelpusher]

i guess its only classed as a signal service, with a fancy ponced up name to make it sound great. its only a mt4 ea, signal services are peddled everywhere, as are ea's, common as muck.

Is there any pedigree to these mt4 ea services, or are they all just a gimmick? Senen said their group were like the rocket scientists (meaning high caliber) of software programming for this.

 

[Digital-Man]

Is there any pedigree to these mt4 ea services, or are they all just a gimmick? Senen said their group were like the rocket scientists (meaning high caliber) of software programming for this.

The human traders do better, what does that say? Computers have the ability to analyze much more data than us while the market is live. It is also possible to build a server farm to crunch even more data. If such an approach were the answer, then it should consistently do better than humans.

What then, makes the difference? Perhaps humans can anticipate trends better than computers by using senses computers don't have, like gut instinct, intuition, or getting into the zone whatever that might be. This is where emotional regulation is important, as emotions may color the perceptions a trader has of the market and personal factors may affect both their perceptions and their decisions.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

also i notice that it keeps cropping up in posts that the justification for this thread as being that a question was asked of prophetmax. has anyone actually looked at the op to see how interested he actually is in the discussions? no?

ok, i'll tell you , the fact is he dropped his post and then buggered off same day, not been back in 2 months to find out whether any info on pousa was forthcoming. to me that's odd. add to the fact no other discussion of this nature appears on any other trading discussion forum anywhere whatsoever is very suspect.

the most suspect thing however is there are no discussions anywhere. this is one dead duck, same as the previous profit matrix, and the before that outsider code. all pousa invested time wise in outsider code was 3 blog posts, that was it! what of the investors in those short lived excursions? will prophetmax go same way and disapear? just like his companies? his companies were prev based in hong kong, now australia. where next i ask

now i've said that, watch the op appear lol :cheesy:

 

[Digital-Man]

add to the fact no other discussion of this nature appears on any other trading discussion forum anywhere whatsoever is very suspect.

That is why I stuck around here, to see if any would develop. The only other places I know of are on the Facebook pages of the EVG and ProphetMax. It is sure curious that the #1 profitable service in the world needs to advertise and use other sales tactics. :?:

Is it the case that people look for the Holy Grail of investing but don't really believe it, so when something promising appears, they find a way to show it is not for real? There are people who are consistently successful, can it be done in forex? Some say yes, some say no. Confirmation bias can be a tricky animal.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Is there any pedigree to these mt4 ea services, or are they all just a gimmick? Senen said their group were like the rocket scientists (meaning high caliber) of software programming for this.

just gimmicky long winded adverts, spammed across the webs like you wouldn't believe. i forget the names, some are corkers, like ivybot and fap fap turbo spring to mind. edit: a list of the darn things, do not click any as it likely a affiliate link site. no really, don't click anything there, just look! http://www.forexfbi.com/forex-robot-comparison/ don't see the pousa's ponce robot on the list? obveously can't cut it in the robot world lol yeah he running scared of the fap ultra!! if you believe what pousa said then, well, theres little hope, are you weakening sir? desist now

 

[pboyles]

That is why I stuck around here, to see if any would develop. The only other places I know of are on the Facebook pages of the EVG and ProphetMax. It is sure curious that the #1 profitable service in the world needs to advertise and use other sales tactics. :?:

Is it the case that people look for the Holy Grail of investing but don't really believe it, so when something promising appears, they find a way to show it is not for real? There are people who are consistently successful, can it be done in forex? Some say yes, some say no. Confirmation bias can be a tricky animal.

None of these schemes deserves much in the way of discussion as we've seen it all before hundreds of times. Somebody comes up with a new millionaire robot, ea or managed account, some people fall for it and then 6 months later come back saying they've lost their money. I could show you dozens of threads exactly like this one and they always, always end up the same way. To have to argue with people to stop them from wasting their money becomes tiresome after a while.

 

[thepixelpusher]

No doubt that Mike Dillard and Senen have honed their sales based upon the last ventures. Notice the same wording used in The Outsiders Code.What is curious is that Senens education is only a 3-year degree background.

Education:
The Gordon Institute
Business Administration, Accounting, law and business administration
1983 – 1986

Senen has only done small gimmicky ventures, so naturally people are skeptical that this one will last. If it doesn't last, where do the clients money go then? What happened to the Outsider Code clients and their money?

The Outsider Code Commercial
The Outsider Code - Wall Street "Insiders" Exposed! - YouTube