Pro or Amateur?

[cr6196]

i think its pretty hard to define between a pro and amateur in trading but you know it when you see it. i think it is a bit of cop out someone just making £100/week. if it works, go with it. the money question matters more as some ways of trading aren't open to people with no money...in fact almost all kinds of trading aren't open to people with no money. saying your a pro if its your primary source of income really complicates it.

another way to define pro would be by consistent success in outperforming a benchmark like an HF index or SP 500 or futures index...benchmarking is total bull but if you have a 5 year record of monthly returns then it wud be clear if you knew what you were doing or not. but $ returns are also useful though cos a good trader shud know when to take risk. like if your making 5% a month with little volatility, you shud try and get some leverage, if someone didn't they probablly don't believe they can trade.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Interesting. I keep looking to learn a trade but keep thinking that maybe im too old(26), and wouldnt really know where to start, and plastering is the trade that I think would suit me best (despite knowing next to nothing about it)

I thought bricklaying was a skilled trade, and could command reasonable money?
(I didn't watch all those "Auf Wiedersehen Pet" episodes for nothing you know! ).

Our plasterer is 62 and it's practically all he does, so he's had time to get very good at it.

The main building contractor we are using (who is employing the plasterer in this case, although he also works direct for customers as well) is 28, and he has asked his plasterer to teach him how to do it, but the latter has refused! (until he retires). Doesn't want to put himself out of a job obviously But the point is that the 28 year old obviously thinks he is capable of learning a new skill, so 26 shouldn't be too old!

From what little I have gathered with talking to our building folk, I would guess to be a good plasterer you probably have to have a background in general building, so having been a bricklayer should help.

Having "real-world" skills can only be a good thing for when the ultimate financial collapse happens! (see other threads about this, oh, almost everywhere now ).

 

[redart]

I thought bricklaying was a skilled trade, and could command reasonable money?

Im sure it is, but I think you've confused me with sighthound??
I dont have any real experience in the building trade at all, although have been considering maybe going on a platering course (they can be a bit pricey though).

I rather enjoy physical labour believe it or not.

Trading is my passion and my dream , but I think its a very unrealistic one. I can safely assume that i've put in more screentime than 90% of this forum and I dont have much to show for it!

Like you say, real life skills can be useful.

 

[luckyd1976]

Mind you, blowing accounts may be, as they say, a necessary condition to later success, but it is not necessarily a sufficient condition!


Anyway, I prefer not to think of it as blowing up, more like storing up tax write-offs against future massive profits (you can claim for up to 7 years can't you ...?).

Not as a Spread Bettor

But if you make the jump to general securities, in the US if you qualify for Mark To Market (M2M) Trader Tax Status you can claim losses.

 

[luckyd1976]

ok you need to get a clue, and while your at it get off my thread. Registered Investment Advisor?

RIA are employed by Equity Hedge Funds as a valuable part of the Management team. You really are not as bright as you think you are my friend.

 

[N Rothschild]

i know what they are, but your definition of someone needing to be an RIA/liscend to qualify as a pro was some what ridiculous.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

What constitutes a professional trader? I'd say it would have to be by way of employment or you'd have to be doing well as opposed to scratching a living. Personally, if I what I earned what I earn through salary as a full time a s/b er I wouldn't call myself a trader.

While I'm here, why are you obsessed with the Rothschilds anyway? And stop on lucky for raining on your non-licenced parade you filthy amateur.

 

[luckyd1976]

i know what they are, but your definition of someone needing to be an RIA/liscend to qualify as a pro was some what ridiculous.

If one has to pay Pro fees on their broker accts I feel they are a Pro. And to keep their licenses clean and up to date, I feel they have deserved the right to called as such, wouldnt you agree?

Now I would agree if someone makes his primary source of income from the markets, I would also consider that a Pro. Because some dont feel the need to get their licenses.

MHO
But your gross rejection of the most earliest form of HedgeFund Licenses shows your real level of Professionalism in this area.

 

[luckyd1976]

What constitutes a professional trader? I'd say it would have to be by way of employment or you'd have to be doing well as opposed to scratching a living. Personally, if I what I earned what I earn through salary as a full time a s/b er I wouldn't call myself a trader.

Would you call yourself a gambler? if its Spreadbetting?

 

[luckyd1976]

S/B has got me curious. UK tax Advantages??? What are the advantages to it?

 

[William Waller]

I think another bull artist has exposed himself .

N Rothschild, an amusing thread, for which I thank you. I trust you have recovered from your £200,000 loss .

"Big swinging dick" - remove but two of those words and you have aptly described yourself. Nonetheless, your contributions are highly entertaining.

Sir William

By the way, I voted amateur. Nobody has spontaneously combusted due solely to their amazement at the extent of my profits - until this happens, one cannot style oneself "professional".

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Would you call yourself a gambler? if its Spreadbetting?

I dunno mate. I just think it's a case of substance over form. If you're scratching a living for the markets as your sole income then you are technically a trader but you're not really that good.
Would people feel mislead if you told them you were a trader then at a later date said you only earn x amount? Probably.
That's the basis for my decision.

 

[N Rothschild]

I think another bullsh1t artist has exposed himself .

N Rothschild, an amusing thread, for which I thank you. I trust you have recovered from your £200,000 loss .

"Big swinging dick" - remove but two of those words and you have aptly described yourself. Nonetheless, your contributions are highly entertaining.

Sir William

By the way, I voted amateur. Nobody has spontaneously combusted due solely to their amazement at the extent of my profits - until this happens, one cannot style oneself "professional".

Anyone who signs off as "Sir William" is clearly a complete twat.

 

[William Waller]

S/B has got me curious. UK tax Advantages??? What are the advantages to it?

Hey Lucky,

Don't get too curious - it's illegal in the States.

Essentially yes, there are tax advantages (tax free as it happens). This is a controversial topic on these boards.

There is also in general the ability to trade smaller size, greater simplicity etc. Basically a good way to get one's feet wet.

Not really appropriate for very short-term trading.

Sir William

 

[N Rothschild]

So Sir William Which former banned member are you?

 

[luckyd1976]

Would people feel mislead as to how much they would expect you to earning to be if you told them you only made x amount as a trader? Probably.
That's the basis for my decision.

Your right in everybody has this preconceived notion that all traders are millionaires and such. Thanks to the Hedgefunds for that one. But yeah some would be disappointed in knowing traders I know make @ 7k monthly off their 100k-250k accounts.and almost all live in suburbs and drive Nissans/Toyotas. Some get their licenses just to have access to the 20-1 leverage for some of their strategies. Others dont. But I will say this, its the best job in the world. Wouldnt trade it for anything.

 

[William Waller]

So Sir William Which former banned member are you?

I regret that I do not understand you - why would a former banned member require an alias? Surely, once reinstated, he would return as himself?

Understand this, N Rothschild (if that is your real name) - I am THE EXPERT. What makes me THE EXPERT? I have THE EXPERTISE.

I jest, of course. To answer your question, I am none of them, for I have never been banned. I am however enjoying my stay in your fantasy land immensely.

Sir William

 

[arabianights]

Interesting. I keep looking to learn a trade but keep thinking that maybe im too old(26), and wouldnt really know where to start, and plastering is the trade that I think would suit me best (despite knowing next to nothing about it)

Got it the wrong way round mate, it's far more fun getting plastred.

I disagree with Mr. Rothschild in at least one obvious respect - for me my primary aim is not to maximise my return, my primary aim is to not blow up.

 

[William Waller]

Anyone who signs off as "Sir William" is clearly a complete twat.

You make a powerful argument in a most elegant style. I congratulate you.

Sir William

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Your right in everybody has this preconceived notion that all traders are millionaires and such. Thanks to the Hedgefunds for that one. But yeah some would be disappointed in knowing traders I know make @ 7k monthly off their 100k-250k accounts.and almost all live in suburbs and drive Nissans/Toyotas. Some get their licenses just to have access to the 20-1 leverage for some of their strategies. Others dont. But I will say this, its the best job in the world. Wouldnt trade it for anything.

I'd take the title of "grandmaster kkk dog" over trader if it netted me 7k a month.