Plain Vanilla Options Trades.

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Thank you

Glenn said:
Hi WC

"the longer the time series the more finite the result" OK well I do have to disagree on that point.
If you flipped a coin 1,000 times and got all Heads would that convince you that the next flip or all future flips would be Heads ?
The length of the time series makes no difference to the fact the the odds are always the same i.e. 50/50 of Head or Tail.

You rightly point out that the success or failure of the strategy depends not on the strategy itself, but on the market conditions it is employed in. But that is always the risk and we have just seen a perfect example of how it go go horribly wrong, and if this is the start of a longer Bear run, it will only get worse.
The only way to guarantee successful application of this strategy is to use it in hindsight.

Do you think that if soc was aware of what was coming he would have opened those positions ? No SIr. He would have waited for the bottom and then written the puts. And prior to that he could have Bought puts to profit from the fall.

Yes agreed soc is free to trade how he likes, but has to accept that people may disagree with his assertions, proof methodology and his manner. Otherwise what is the point of anyone posting anything ?


Best wishes
Glenn


Hi Glenn,

Thank you for your comments, I trust your learning and development will continue to be fruitful. Feel free to disagree with any of my views and opinions, I am OK with it, after all who am I. From your perspective you are probably right.

Regards and have a great weekend,

Watercooled.
 
Glenn said:
"the longer the time series the more finite the result" OK well I do have to disagree on that point.
If you flipped a coin 1,000 times and got all Heads would that convince you that the next flip or all future flips would be Heads ?
The length of the time series makes no difference to the fact the the odds are always the same i.e. 50/50 of Head or Tail.
No, but if you are trying to prove the odds are 50/50 then the longer the time series the more credence should be given to the results. 10 flips may yield nothing like 50/50, 100 flips would be nearer to 50/50, 1000 and so on... and 1,000,000 would yield odds of 50/50 to within a decimal.
 
WC,

Given your experience of derivatives, but especially your status as a ‘scientist’, I am totally mystified as to your position. If it’s convenient, perhaps you could address a few points.

“the realities of the strategy will unfold with time”. These were known at the outset. Subsequent profit or loss is irrelevant.

“mathematically the data series is not complete yet”. Are you suggesting success or failure will only be determined at expiry? Yes, there will be a ton made on theta, but potentially a ton loss on the underlying.

Re your 18 months project. Were the results published; what myths were disproved?

“data series and/or the analysis, can skew the result”. Doesn’t the data/analysis determine the result?

“to prove the hypothesis…a very long data series is required”. No, it’s not; this is disproved when there are no funds left in the trading account. The theoretical is only relevant in a theoretical context (if you see what I mean).

“sell options when the volatility is very high…buy…when…low. I'm happy with my delusion that there is an edge to this strategy” This has been stated many times in this thread. I don’t think this constitutes an ‘edge’ – it’s fundamental.

“the world is an eclectic place”. Do you subscribe the aspect of quantum physics (?) that contradicts the Laws of Identity, Non-contradiction, and Excluded Middle? That’s the only way I can view your interpretations.

“From your perspective you are probably right.” Or probably wrong. The point is we are trying to establish validity one way or the other. If I’m wrong, I’d like to know why – it may save me from losing a lot of money.

I am encouraged that the spirit of the French Enlightenment endures, and did not die with the fatuous remarks of Edith Cresson (‘all Englishmen are queer’).

Grant.
 
Thank you

grantx said:
WC,

Given your experience of derivatives, but especially your status as a ‘scientist’, I am totally mystified as to your position. If it’s convenient, perhaps you could address a few points.

“the realities of the strategy will unfold with time”. These were known at the outset. Subsequent profit or loss is irrelevant.

“mathematically the data series is not complete yet”. Are you suggesting success or failure will only be determined at expiry? Yes, there will be a ton made on theta, but potentially a ton loss on the underlying.

Re your 18 months project. Were the results published; what myths were disproved?

“data series and/or the analysis, can skew the result”. Doesn’t the data/analysis determine the result?

“to prove the hypothesis…a very long data series is required”. No, it’s not; this is disproved when there are no funds left in the trading account. The theoretical is only relevant in a theoretical context (if you see what I mean).

“sell options when the volatility is very high…buy…when…low. I'm happy with my delusion that there is an edge to this strategy” This has been stated many times in this thread. I don’t think this constitutes an ‘edge’ – it’s fundamental.

“the world is an eclectic place”. Do you subscribe the aspect of quantum physics (?) that contradicts the Laws of Identity, Non-contradiction, and Excluded Middle? That’s the only way I can view your interpretations.

“From your perspective you are probably right.” Or probably wrong. The point is we are trying to establish validity one way or the other. If I’m wrong, I’d like to know why – it may save me from losing a lot of money.

I am encouraged that the spirit of the French Enlightenment endures, and did not die with the fatuous remarks of Edith Cresson (‘all Englishmen are queer’).

Grant.

Hi Grant,

Great post! It has been said, "All politicians lie!" I guess this must be true as all Englishmen can't be queer. Your points raised are very interesting (to me), perhaps allowing your thoughts to open further it would help you to answer the questions for youself. As my answers may not be the ones to help you most.

The results of the 18 month study belong to the fund; however, many 'quantitative' books on finance would impart similar conclusions. Happy reading and exploring.

To assert a perspective, always runs the risk of being wrong, or right for a limited time. For instance, try God, peak oil or global warming. My position is: the market is always right and 85%-90% of traders get it wrong. So find 10 normal traders, listen to them shout their book and trade against the majority. Scientifically proven to work. :)

What a great forum you have here.

All the best, have a great weekend.

Watercooled
 
"My suggestion would be 1000 months+"

- 1000 months + data series - We would all have rotted away in 83 years !
FTSE options haven't been extant for 1000 months back testing either.

"If I win I enjoy the profits, If I loose, I try again. That is what a game of chance is about"

IMHO, trading is not "a game of chance", it is a probability business and must be trreated as such for long term consistent success.

Les mots de Edith Cresson.....,ils sont merde, and that in the words of our dear departed, is FACT and TRUTH ;-))

Richard

PS Welcome to posting, "watercooled". Is it a motorbike...........?
 
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83 years...

Mr. Charts said:
"My suggestion would be 1000 months+"

- 1000 months + data series - We would all have rotted away in 83 years !
FTSE options haven't been extant for 1000 months back testing either.

"If I win I enjoy the profits, If I loose, I try again. That is what a game of chance is about"

IMHO, trading is not "a game of chance", it is a probability business and must be trreated as such for long term consistent success.

Et Edith Cresson.....,elle est merde, and that in the words of our dear departed, is FACT and TRUTH ;-))

Richard

PS Welcome to posting, "watercooled". Is it a motorbike...........?


Hi Richard,

Yes you are right and for some that would be a lifetime. So how do mobilephone Companies and genetic engineers know their products are safe for our lifetime. They don't, but we still buy mobis.

Good luck with your game of probabilities :) I'm currently flat, the only way to be confident of not loosing, unless you take a global view. (Cash is an instrument!)

I have 2 watercooled overclocked PCs, but I think I'll swap them for a motorbike. Surely there will be less programming involved!

Look forward to posting more

Amicalement,
WC
 
Cash is not only an instrument, but having no position is a position, and often a wise one.
Enjoy le weekend.
Richard
 
WC,

I fear this is becoming an 'entente cordiale'.

You also have a good weekend.

Grant.
 
watercooled said:
Hi Glenn,

Thank you for your comments, I trust your learning and development will continue to be fruitful. Feel free to disagree with any of my views and opinions, I am OK with it, after all who am I. From your perspective you are probably right.

Regards and have a great weekend,

Watercooled.

Ignoring the sarcasm except to say that I know all I need to know to be profitable, your own view on this strategy appears to be in the negative.
"I never short 'out of the money' index puts anymore after '97, for instance." and you provide your own link to the Black Swan www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Spain/photo419133.htm

In sticking with the maths and probabilities, the point is that this is a negatively skewed strategy no matter how many sample trades are given.
In the same way as you know, a coin has 2 sides which gives it the 50% prob of a Head or Tail. No need to lots of flips to demonstrate or even prove that.

Best wishes
Glenn
 
The truth tonight:-

untitledxq1.jpg
 
SOCRATES said:
Latest Update.
###########

No change.

Enjoy your weekend.
Is this a guest appearance, or something more permanent ?

Either way, can I leave you to update your fans from here on in ? Including margin requirements ?
 
hmmm now, thinking about edge writers v buyers, and how it pans out, the recent against move to writer and the buyers ups and downs how would they compare ? .

I think it might help if we have another series of controlled comparisons. LOL. I mean ok so it went against, yes but what would the opposite buyer be holding or left with?

The whats the measure of success in any trade ? until this is objectively defined ,even for sake of demonstration then I suppose eyebrows will be raised to, what about this or that etc.

how do traders , manage a move against? thats subjective and interesting , how does he read it? its not neccessarily the nail in the coffin, indeed it might suggest a confirmation to be directional long or signal to change stance ?

not a fan of anyone, but I can see the argument for more structured comparison measures, and also see how the trader might view recent events and the management of it.
 
starspacer said:
I sense the time is nearing when the rolled up newspapers will be smartly thwacked across the black swan.

DC, Glenn, DB, please, no more bs.
img415201320c35c.jpg


I see my prediction about the impending Black Swan (made last month) has come to pass.

As I've said before, all is known in advance to the True Thinkers.

All intellectually quite boring really.

Anyone got a chateaux in Tuscany for sale?? Under 2m Euros please.
 
Glenn said:
Ignoring the sarcasm except to say that I know all I need to know to be profitable, your own view on this strategy appears to be in the negative.
"I never short 'out of the money' index puts anymore after '97, for instance." and you provide your own link to the Black Swan www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Spain/photo419133.htm

In sticking with the maths and probabilities, the point is that this is a negatively skewed strategy no matter how many sample trades are given.
In the same way as you know, a coin has 2 sides which gives it the 50% prob of a Head or Tail. No need to lots of flips to demonstrate or even prove that.

Best wishes
Glenn

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for your comments, no I don't write deep 'out of the money' index puts as the risk reward profile isn't to my taste, a personal thing. I am certainly happy to write 'at the money' or slightly 'out of the money' calls or puts at certain times especially if the vols are very high. (not seen for sometime) As I trade futures mostly, it is nice to sell a little 'time', if the markets appear to be consolidating. (Vols and SD spreads decaying). I enjoy what I do and am happy with my delusion of successful strategies.

Regards,
WC
 
Ignore status - Socrates

Profitaker said:
Is this a guest appearance, or something more permanent ?

Either way, can I leave you to update your fans from here on in ? Including margin requirements ?

Profitaker

I have temporary problems with logging in / posting on T2W and after a brief discussion with our mutual friend Bully, he suggested I sent you this message via Watercooled. Please note: Profitaker you can hardly expect an answer to this latest post addressed to me, if you have put me on ignore as stated publicly earlier on in the thread.

Kind Regards,
Socrates
 
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starspacer said:
I see my prediction about the impending Black Swan (made last month) has come to pass.

As I've said before, all is known in advance to the True Thinkers.

All intellectually quite boring really.

Anyone got a chateaux in Tuscany for sale?? Under 2m Euros please.


Geeze have the positions come back into profit
Woodwork crawling out of spring to mind

I would like to say thanks to profitaker for taking the trouble to update the thread on said trades
 
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