OMG That was not good

[rathcoole_exile]

6) Study your losers to find out what you did wrong.
7) Study your winners to find out exactly what you did right.

"you" don't do anything right or wrong in terms of deciding what trade to initiate

since the market could do one of 3 things at any given split second, your responsibility and only true path to success is money management. there are no "right" or "wrong" trades - only the way the trade was managed

 

[new_trader]

which, since it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to be 100% CERTAIN would mean you never place a trade ?

1) ALWAYS trade with a STOP placed close to your entry, ALWAYS.

This keeps losses small in cases of misjudgement. Do not place a trade if you are taking a guess or taking a shot in the dark. You must be sure your are right before you begin.

you are riding a motorbike, sat at a T-Junction waiting to turn right.

A car is approaching you from the right, but CLEARLY INDICATING that he intends to turn left into the side road from you are exiting.
So it's safe to pull out in front of him ?
because a) you trust indicators and b) the indication is very CLEAR

or
c) you don't trust indicators, you file away a mental note of what it is telling you, but you wait until the movement of the vehicle (price action) has confirmed the driver's intentions before you take action ?

I don't know the answer to this. Whatever YOUR indications are to let you know it's safe to pull out in front of him are the ones you should be using. If you don't know what those indications are then you need more experience on the road. Wear a helmet and as much protection as you can and be very, very cautious and observant.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

i don't disagree that Stops are important.
I just fail to see any relevance between Stops and your assertion that you do not enter a trade unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain the market is going to move immediately in your favour.
I can't see your logic in connecting the two.
In fact, if you followed your assertion to it's obvious conclusion that you're NEVER wrong, wouldn't that make Stops irrelevant ?

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Whatever YOUR indications are to let you know it's safe to pull out in front of him are the ones you should be using. If you don't know what those indications are then you need more experience on the road. Wear a helmet and as much protection as you can and be very, very cautious and observant.

my point is that as an experienced motorcyclist, one learns never to trust ANY indicator

trust only what you see in terms of vehicle movement (price action)

indicators, any indicators, just lull one into a false sense of security and sooner or later you'll get squashed when the old man in the volvo, smoking a pipe in his deerstalker hat,drives straight on and not left as indicated

 

[new_trader]

i don't disagree that Stops are important.
I just fail to see any relevance between Stops and your assertion that you do not enter a trade unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain the market is going to move immediately in your favour.
I can't see your logic in connecting the two.
In fact, if you followed your assertion to it's obvious conclusion that you're NEVER wrong, wouldn't that make Stops irrelevant ?

It is difficult to explain because it is something that only experience can tell you. I am not saying that a trader will never be wrong, I am saying that a trader should not enter an order unless THEY are ABSOLUTELY certain they will be right, there is a difference. When you enter trades this way there really is no fear or hesitation and the position will move immediately in your favour. Trades must 'jump out' at you and select themselves. When you have the discipline and self-control to allow this to happen, you will be right much more often than not. As your judgement is refined through experience you will begin to recognise the difference between a real opportunity and an apparently real opportunity.

 

[new_trader]

my point is that as an experienced motorcyclist, one learns never to trust ANY indicator

trust only what you see in terms of vehicle movement (price action)

indicators, any indicators, just lull one into a false sense of security and sooner or later you'll get squashed when the old man in the volvo, smoking a pipe in his deerstalker hat,drives straight on and not left as indicated

I said your INDICATIONS TO ENTER, you are saying indicators. Maybe it would have been better if I had said REASONS to enter a trade. I will change it, to avoid confusing the majority.

 

[arabianights]

I think I understand what n_t is saying. He is letting the stop take care of any doubt for him, allowing him to enter any trade with 100% confidence in his gut that it will either go his way, while his brain knows somewhere that if it doesn't then he won't lose much.

This is interesting, actually.

 

[Black Swan]

NT a question, "one trade a day", are you sure you're sure on that one?

 

[craigd]

Seems I have started a bit of a debate, thanks for the rules of trading and the road, I see your point about the motor cyclist. I always trade with stops, my platform disconnected early on, luckly no damage but that taught me the benefit of having a stop cos the panick must have been something to see.

Its difficult to study the losers further than I have already because i now think there was little analysis going on when I was chasing the markets except to draw that exact conclusion - don't chase the market.

I think the way forward is to improve my analysis and therefore increase the probability rates of each trade. I am trying to look at larger time frames but suffer as many of the newbies do of micro managing. Its hard to place an order and leave the screen and part of that maybe having a bit more confidence in the analysis.

I will keep the board updated on my progress.

 

[Unicorn77]

Craig, was it just this week that you lost the money? or have you always lost it? there were alot of differences in the market in the last week that i noticed, and it was hard to judge, if you was gaining before last week, then i would put it down to this weeks market, and tread carefully next week

I too lost a 4 figure sum last week, actually it was a days profit i made the week before on the DOW, very annoying, but not the worst thing

 

[craigd]

Unicorn, it was only my second week with real cash, I had papertraded well until going live. I am treating this as a lesson well learned in terms of the old saying about walking and running and the order in which they should be attempted.

 

[Unicorn77]

yes, it is a lesson well learnt, learning costs money, your mistake was putting such a large amount in your account, your mistake wasn't losing the money, because thats part of learning, I don't think i've ever deposited more than 1K into an account (apart from my certs account), meaning if i made 8K profit then lost it all, no matter which way you look at it, I would have only lost 1K, of course if money keeps getting put in the account and you keep losing, its different

 

[HaloTrader]

Craig, was it just this week that you lost the money? or have you always lost it? there were alot of differences in the market in the last week that i noticed, and it was hard to judge, if you was gaining before last week, then i would put it down to this weeks market, and tread carefully next week

I too lost a 4 figure sum last week, actually it was a days profit i made the week before on the DOW, very annoying, but not the worst thing

You obviously don't have much experience if you think that the market had 'lots of differences last week'... Thats just your excuse for losing '4 figure sum' the real reason you lost it is because you can't trade - You won money the week before on luck and lost it the next week trading.

Don't blame the markets for your inability to trade it. It trended well on the hourly all week.

 

[Unicorn77]

lol, i've had a cfd account for longer than two weeks, which was only deposited with 2K total, the money i've made on it far outweigh the losses by atleast 75% money wise, i turned that 2K into a 5 figure sum, call it inexperience if you wish

just because i don't post on here often doesn't mean i'm a novice, it just means i spend more time on ADVFN.com

 

[rathcoole_exile]

I said your INDICATIONS TO ENTER, you are saying indicators.

so now your defense has come down to playing with semantics
(or if you're in thailand, She-Man-tics) ??

 

[new_trader]

NT a question, "one trade a day", are you sure you're sure on that one?

Yes. I look over my trading account and if I had stuck solidly to my 1 trade/day rule I would have much less red print in the profit column. It is through experience that I have come to the conclusion that it is better to wait for the absolute choicest of trades, where you have no doubt as to what you ought to do, and then enter 1 trade with X contracts. This is better than attempting X number of trades with 1 contract. If you get it wrong, then STOP trading, there will be another day and another opportunity. There have been times where I have made 2 losses in a row and have the 3rd trade a winner and I end up with profit. But the gross profit is less than if I had exercised a little more patience and entered just 1 trade. The reason being that after 2 losses you have less courage to hold a trade and just want to get your money back. This is still one of the things I struggle with. My trading account has improved since I went back to 1 trade/day. More black print, much less red print.

 

[new_trader]

so now your defense has come down to playing with semantics
(or if you're in thailand, She-Man-tics) ??

Playing with semantics!??

What can you NOT understand? I think what I have written is simple to understand and you are desperately trying to turn it into an argument. I can't be arsed, seriously. Go somewhere else.

 

[Black Swan]

You obviously don't have much experience if you think that the market had 'lots of differences last week'... Thats just your excuse for losing '4 figure sum' the real reason you lost it is because you can't trade - You won money the week before on luck and lost it the next week trading.

Don't blame the markets for your inability to trade it. It trended well on the hourly all week.

'kin 'ell that's a tad harsh

 

[Unicorn77]

no worries black swan, i had worse from the shorters when they found out i was long on lloy from 40P, and we got alot worse than the usual "mug punter" line, if it was a major loss i may have been sadened at the post, but as Halotrader didn't even know what impact my loss had, it kind of shows his sentiment towards fellow traders, i see similar comments on stock bb's, its strange how those people seem to get no questions answered, or complain they've lost money because someone didn't tell them divis were being handed out on purpose and they were shorting etc

people can say what they want, but i'm happy aslong as im making more than i'm losing

 

[HaloTrader]

Yes. I look over my trading account and if I had stuck solidly to my 1 trade/day rule I would have much less red print in the profit column. It is through experience that I have come to the conclusion that it is better to wait for the absolute choicest of trades, where you have no doubt as to what you ought to do, and then enter 1 trade with X contracts. This is better than attempting X number of trades with 1 contract. If you get it wrong, then STOP trading, there will be another day and another opportunity. There have been times where I have made 2 losses in a row and have the 3rd trade a winner and I end up with profit. But the gross profit is less than if I had exercised a little more patience and entered just 1 trade. The reason being that after 2 losses you have less courage to hold a trade and just want to get your money back. This is still one of the things I struggle with. My trading account has improved since I went back to 1 trade/day. More black print, much less red print.

Just relax dude and let these peoples words fall unlistened too

^^