Oliver Valez Trade for Life Program
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NetTecture
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This is something I wonder, too. I mean, really. What is expected from Menntoring? I would say it is ok if the VAST majority of people STILL fail.
Seriously.
Normally 95% to 98% of people fail. Nice. If the trainnig program get boost that down to 80% - that still means 8 of 10 students will not pass. But it also means it STILL may be worth the money.
Can fraut be prooven? This should be easy. If methods teached can be dissected of not working... then... this is Fraud. If they can not work practically, it is fraud.
But if most people fail, this does not mean it is fraud. I know some study branches where many people get washed out in the beginning. There once was a saying that if you give someone a profitable computerized trading system, 60% of the people will STILL loose money, as they simply do not follow the rules. I suspect the same with any mentoring program.
The bitterness seems - totally unfounded to me. Some people did spoke up. If real (which the admins can validate) they provided nice evidence that points into the "valid" area.
The posts from a forum official sadly give a bad taste to the forum, if read by observers (like me so far in this topic), simply due to the extreme rude and unbased way they are formulated in.
Note that I do not say I would advice anyone to take that course
I think it is on the high side. OTOH the reimbursement program looks nice. Everone still has to make his own decision.
Seriously.
Normally 95% to 98% of people fail. Nice. If the trainnig program get boost that down to 80% - that still means 8 of 10 students will not pass. But it also means it STILL may be worth the money.
Can fraut be prooven? This should be easy. If methods teached can be dissected of not working... then... this is Fraud. If they can not work practically, it is fraud.
But if most people fail, this does not mean it is fraud. I know some study branches where many people get washed out in the beginning. There once was a saying that if you give someone a profitable computerized trading system, 60% of the people will STILL loose money, as they simply do not follow the rules. I suspect the same with any mentoring program.
The bitterness seems - totally unfounded to me. Some people did spoke up. If real (which the admins can validate) they provided nice evidence that points into the "valid" area.
The posts from a forum official sadly give a bad taste to the forum, if read by observers (like me so far in this topic), simply due to the extreme rude and unbased way they are formulated in.
Note that I do not say I would advice anyone to take that course
I think it is on the high side. OTOH the reimbursement program looks nice. Everone still has to make his own decision.NetTecture, you brought forth some great points. The system may not be faulty just the operators. Even with VCM I have been shut down for the day, not because a bad system, but because of MY bad trading (learning though).
Also, anyone who is trading remember this is like any other career, it takes time. You don't see a medical student start in the first semester and be operating by the end of the semester. Anything you do in life that is new or different is going to be a change and need time and practice.
I personally thought that with trading, I was going to be conquering the markets in no time and within 6 months I was going to be paying all my bills including my mortgage. I have realized that it is a learning process any way you look at it. I have taken another trading course prior to VCM and learned some but after losing more money than I wanted,I knew I needed more education....and time. I also know that sticking with it, the reward will be well worth the risk (the cost of a course) and I will be able to have a very comfortable lifestyle.
Also, I know there are many different courses out there, some may not be so legit and others are great. My experience with VCM has been a great one. Thanks for the opportunity to share my view.
Regards,
Kevin
Also, anyone who is trading remember this is like any other career, it takes time. You don't see a medical student start in the first semester and be operating by the end of the semester. Anything you do in life that is new or different is going to be a change and need time and practice.
I personally thought that with trading, I was going to be conquering the markets in no time and within 6 months I was going to be paying all my bills including my mortgage. I have realized that it is a learning process any way you look at it. I have taken another trading course prior to VCM and learned some but after losing more money than I wanted,I knew I needed more education....and time. I also know that sticking with it, the reward will be well worth the risk (the cost of a course) and I will be able to have a very comfortable lifestyle.
Also, I know there are many different courses out there, some may not be so legit and others are great. My experience with VCM has been a great one. Thanks for the opportunity to share my view.
Regards,
Kevin
This is something I wonder, too. I mean, really. What is expected from Menntoring? I would say it is ok if the VAST majority of people STILL fail.
Seriously.
Normally 95% to 98% of people fail. Nice. If the trainnig program get boost that down to 80% - that still means 8 of 10 students will not pass. But it also means it STILL may be worth the money.
Can fraut be prooven? This should be easy. If methods teached can be dissected of not working... then... this is Fraud. If they can not work practically, it is fraud.
But if most people fail, this does not mean it is fraud. I know some study branches where many people get washed out in the beginning. There once was a saying that if you give someone a profitable computerized trading system, 60% of the people will STILL loose money, as they simply do not follow the rules. I suspect the same with any mentoring program.
The bitterness seems - totally unfounded to me. Some people did spoke up. If real (which the admins can validate) they provided nice evidence that points into the "valid" area.
The posts from a forum official sadly give a bad taste to the forum, if read by observers (like me so far in this topic), simply due to the extreme rude and unbased way they are formulated in.
Note that I do not say I would advice anyone to take that course
Many prop & training firms have let their recruits down by a way or another.
Arabian has roughly seen them all at various stages, and knows the
industry very well. Hence the no bull**** attitude, which might be mistaken for
insulting.
If you are looking to promote VCM for the London market:
any strictly prop trading or trader trading firm with a legit offer will do very well. If some issues are raised by Arabian or others, acknowledging these and taking steps to correct these might be a good way of reassuring potential recruits newbies and experienced.
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That may very well be true fantastic, and if it was explained that way I would not have a problem with it. The no bull**** attitude is insulting without any kind of an explanation from this 22 year old kid who should have some tact and provide education and guidance since he is an advisor. Instead we are called morons because we are in the VCM Trade for Life program and because we provided some feedback on our experiences in the program that other people inquired about on this thread. To me this is just downright rude and serves no useful purpose.
Fantastic, I do not disagree that some or many firms have let their recruits down and the purpose on this forum isn't to say VCM is the next Holy Grail either. I happen to be with VCM and am very happy with the program, what I would like to say is; if people feel a program is either good or bad, give some details as to why that reason is. I have supported VCM in saying what has been mentioned either through advertisement or the website has been accurate and worthwhile to me. Whether VCM or another company, if there is something that is wrong give some details or examples and if they are legit, maybe they could be addressed or brought up in discussion to have an understanding of what the problems are. Simply to say "they suck" or "they're scams" doesn't help any of us who are trying to either get information or pass it on. There is more than enough money in the market for all of us, so why not share ideas and information that may give someone...as myself.. an aa-ha moment and make us better traders. If someone learns "my secret" doesn't mean I won't make money in the market, it only helps others.
Regards,
Kevin
Regards,
Kevin
NetTecture
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That sort f put sit up.
See, I am a "again newbie" (stopped trading for some years for personal reasons) and in general interested in education / mentorship programs, and ALSO considering a prop uosue. I think VCM is really not what I want to pay for (i.e. too expensive), etc.
But still, seriously - from the way this conversation is handled, the "they are scam" side looks a LOT less real than the two even newbies with not even 10 posts stepping forward.
Whatever valid criticism is there, it deserves to be raised in a way that does not immediately discredit it and the person raising it as ungrounded and not even worth reading. At least SOME Arguments should be provided. Ad hominem attacks without any argument invalidate any post.
See, I am a "again newbie" (stopped trading for some years for personal reasons) and in general interested in education / mentorship programs, and ALSO considering a prop uosue. I think VCM is really not what I want to pay for (i.e. too expensive), etc.
But still, seriously - from the way this conversation is handled, the "they are scam" side looks a LOT less real than the two even newbies with not even 10 posts stepping forward.
Whatever valid criticism is there, it deserves to be raised in a way that does not immediately discredit it and the person raising it as ungrounded and not even worth reading. At least SOME Arguments should be provided. Ad hominem attacks without any argument invalidate any post.
arabianights
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What the hell?
Simple logic should tell you it's a scam.
Either VCM has discovered a brand new business model that merely resembles many other scams to all outward appearances (offering riches for a low, low fee!) which is soon, no doubt, to be imitated by Goldman and Soros... or it's a scam.
I mean, just look at the guy's website. Nonsense about bringing the third world out of poverty by teaching them to trade. Use some common sense!
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So luckybucks,
I am considering trying the VELEZ trading program, myself. Why cant I find one trader on the internet who can say they lost their money or....is making a living as promised. Velez says he now has around 2400 traders worldwide. So, why are none talking of their experiences on the internet. Is there any way to find out if this is for real. I hate shelling out 12 grand for a week of "online training" and then get to sit in my underwear all day and hopefully make money. He gives you a $30 maximum loss per day. Doesnt that mean that if you lose one trade, you are done for the day? So then you go back to sim or demo mode? Why doesnt anyone know the details? I wouldnt have even considered this gig as it seems too good to be true but his free webinar was really informative and did have tips I never heard anywhere before, and Ive read most of the books. Then there is another guy on some site called scam.com saying velez was fired by pristine so that should tell me something. Another guy is saying the next highest guy to velez in the company is a fraud and that he is using velez as the frontman. I need some clarity here guys. Id appreciate anyones help.
I am considering trying the VELEZ trading program, myself. Why cant I find one trader on the internet who can say they lost their money or....is making a living as promised. Velez says he now has around 2400 traders worldwide. So, why are none talking of their experiences on the internet. Is there any way to find out if this is for real. I hate shelling out 12 grand for a week of "online training" and then get to sit in my underwear all day and hopefully make money. He gives you a $30 maximum loss per day. Doesnt that mean that if you lose one trade, you are done for the day? So then you go back to sim or demo mode? Why doesnt anyone know the details? I wouldnt have even considered this gig as it seems too good to be true but his free webinar was really informative and did have tips I never heard anywhere before, and Ive read most of the books. Then there is another guy on some site called scam.com saying velez was fired by pristine so that should tell me something. Another guy is saying the next highest guy to velez in the company is a fraud and that he is using velez as the frontman. I need some clarity here guys. Id appreciate anyones help.
What did you find out about Velez trading program?
Santa, I too am interested in the Velez trading program, but 12 grand scares me to death. Did you find out anything? And why cant I find anyone on the internet who has been thru the program? Did they all have heart attacks? This makes no sense.
thanks.
Santa, I too am interested in the Velez trading program, but 12 grand scares me to death. Did you find out anything? And why cant I find anyone on the internet who has been thru the program? Did they all have heart attacks? This makes no sense.
thanks.
NetTecture
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Well, I would not consider them because the price/benefit relation is imho not really there. I may at a later stage, but... not now.
That said, 2400 traders and not one posting here is not really relevant. I find that I dont see too much "this is scam" around the internet. Remember, not everyone may be a forum addict
30 loss per day - look at account size. You will be trading mini lots, so... USD 30 is not one trade, if you are not totally unlucky / idiot (i.e. put stop loss at 30 USD). With uite some methods one can say... that it should be ok to have a daily loss of USD 30. Not sure you go back to sim mode. But remember, there is always the next day. I personalyl think "ok, you blew it, just watch" is not that bad an approach. Many traders have a "trade limit" per day (x trades). It makes one feel more - hm - carefull, which I think is what is wanted here. From the progression I see on the site, I like it (in terms of: it makes sense, and I think i will adopt it for myself).
You have to decide yourself. The main problem with sites like scam.com is that... as I said before...
* Even if he is valid in that the method works etc., I would expect more than 60% of the prople to fail. The psychological aspect of trading is simply pretty brutal.
* Some of those are bount to make some claims that this is scam.
Not saying he is not - i don't want to endorse him at all. Just saying a certain amount of grief is simply to be expected.
That said, 2400 traders and not one posting here is not really relevant. I find that I dont see too much "this is scam" around the internet. Remember, not everyone may be a forum addict
30 loss per day - look at account size. You will be trading mini lots, so... USD 30 is not one trade, if you are not totally unlucky / idiot (i.e. put stop loss at 30 USD). With uite some methods one can say... that it should be ok to have a daily loss of USD 30. Not sure you go back to sim mode. But remember, there is always the next day. I personalyl think "ok, you blew it, just watch" is not that bad an approach. Many traders have a "trade limit" per day (x trades). It makes one feel more - hm - carefull, which I think is what is wanted here. From the progression I see on the site, I like it (in terms of: it makes sense, and I think i will adopt it for myself).
You have to decide yourself. The main problem with sites like scam.com is that... as I said before...
* Even if he is valid in that the method works etc., I would expect more than 60% of the prople to fail. The psychological aspect of trading is simply pretty brutal.
* Some of those are bount to make some claims that this is scam.
Not saying he is not - i don't want to endorse him at all. Just saying a certain amount of grief is simply to be expected.
Can anyone actually tell me if the Oliver Velez course has worked for them or is at least legit. His free webinar seemed very informative but why cant I find one person on the web who is making money with him if he has about 2400 traders worldwide as he claims. I dont know if this is a scam or the opportunity of a lifetime, since I liked all his concepts on trade entry in the free webinar. HAS ANYONE HERE TAKEN THE COURSE??? Maybe some of you who keep talking about it should at least go to the website and sign up for his free webinar and see what you think. he did give me 3 fabulous tips on trading! But the question remains.........is this legit? I remember Robert Dinero saying in the movie Ronan..........."Whenever there is doubt, there is no doubt."
Reply to VCM
Pakua42,
If you look at some of the older posts, I am a prop trader and happy with Velez. They don't have a demo account, at least once you go through the program it is the Practice Level and you still are trading live with real money, your stop is lower. My email is [email protected] and my cell number is 203-981-6569. I am always happy to answer any questions and I will share my trading info with anyone.
Regards,
Kevin
Pakua42,
If you look at some of the older posts, I am a prop trader and happy with Velez. They don't have a demo account, at least once you go through the program it is the Practice Level and you still are trading live with real money, your stop is lower. My email is [email protected] and my cell number is 203-981-6569. I am always happy to answer any questions and I will share my trading info with anyone.
Regards,
Kevin
Read the Thread
Pakua, You need to read the entire thread before you start saying "why can't I find 1 person who has been through the course". You have both Kevin and myself who have been. See my post of 5/23. If you give me your E-Mail address, I will be happy to answer any questions. I gain nothing by promoting the Trade For Life Program and can give you the pros and cons if you are interested. I will not give any more input on this thread because I don't want to be called a moron again by "advisor" ArabianFrights. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it is done in a rationale and mature manner.
Pakua, You need to read the entire thread before you start saying "why can't I find 1 person who has been through the course". You have both Kevin and myself who have been. See my post of 5/23. If you give me your E-Mail address, I will be happy to answer any questions. I gain nothing by promoting the Trade For Life Program and can give you the pros and cons if you are interested. I will not give any more input on this thread because I don't want to be called a moron again by "advisor" ArabianFrights. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it is done in a rationale and mature manner.
--That's one of my life maxims. Except my version is milder. "Assumption is the mother of error." I just listened to Oliver Valez do a webinar this afternoon. He's a great motivator/salesman. Do his techniques work? I'll give them a try and see for myself.
--I haven't found any real bad stuff about Velez on the net as yet. Since I'm in Texas (no state income taxes), I checked on another trainer out of Texas, RS of Houston. The Feds filed a suit against them for fraudulent claims. R.S. of Houston Workshop - Agree
re: scams... I do my own taxes but that doesn't mean that Tax Accountants are running scams because they charge a fee for doing something that I can do myself (or painters, or plumbers, etc). Whether or not something is a scam (fraud, deceptive practices) depends on the intent of the offerer (legally). The value of the service also depends on the acceptee's use of the service. It may well be that you are trading with your own money, but the Velez's iron-clad rules are what you need to stay in the game. I certainly could use better discipline and less emotional trading myself. That's why I'm attempting to program some strategies into Tradestation.
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luckyd1976
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Hi Luckyd1976:
I'm neither denigrating nor extolling TFL. My path lies elsewhere, however. Hopefully I can make better use of the $13,000. I watched Oliver Velez on a webinar last Friday and that was his quoted price. However, if you act now... a discount is available.
I'm neither denigrating nor extolling TFL. My path lies elsewhere, however. Hopefully I can make better use of the $13,000. I watched Oliver Velez on a webinar last Friday and that was his quoted price. However, if you act now... a discount is available.
Speak only with full infomation.......and CORRECT info
Its untrue he is thrown out he still owns a substantial percentage of the company but has gone on to set up a capital management company..
Its untrue he is thrown out he still owns a substantial percentage of the company but has gone on to set up a capital management company..
Great Posts!
I can tell you that 95% of all businesses fail in the first 5 years so why would that not be any different in trading. I do know from owning several businesses that the best way to get through a mine field is to follow in the footsteps of someone that has made it to the otherside - "in one piece". Does VCM work - for some, probably very few, but so what - trading is a business and needs to be treated like one - and very few will succed. If VCM can lead the way through the mine field, great, but lets face it some people still try to blaze their own trail - just like real life - the 95%.
I really thought I would find a lot more negative on VCM, especially after reading these threads, but I have to tell you that I am suprised there is not a lot more out there for such a "so called" scam.
This is my first post and with some of the comments, I doubt I would share my experiences either.
I guess successful people are to busy making money or having fun spending it, rather than trying to take advise from the 95%ers!!!!!!!!!
I can tell you that 95% of all businesses fail in the first 5 years so why would that not be any different in trading. I do know from owning several businesses that the best way to get through a mine field is to follow in the footsteps of someone that has made it to the otherside - "in one piece". Does VCM work - for some, probably very few, but so what - trading is a business and needs to be treated like one - and very few will succed. If VCM can lead the way through the mine field, great, but lets face it some people still try to blaze their own trail - just like real life - the 95%.
I really thought I would find a lot more negative on VCM, especially after reading these threads, but I have to tell you that I am suprised there is not a lot more out there for such a "so called" scam.
This is my first post and with some of the comments, I doubt I would share my experiences either.
I guess successful people are to busy making money or having fun spending it, rather than trying to take advise from the 95%ers!!!!!!!!!
At tonight's webinar it was said that that, "those that stay with the company for over 12months, 30% of them are profitable," indicating that many find that the initial levels are too slow for them, 40% commissions are too much, are unable to make sufficient progress and just move onto something else.
