No real qualifications. Not much experience. Do i have a chance getting into a prop?

[spanish89]

Aloha people, um k im tired and depressed deep deep inside now so am not going to even waste my time writing too long and detailed post like normal..


Im gna just be honest,
I have no real qualifications (8GCSEs 3Bs/3Cs/2Ds, am doing my A-levels which when i finish college in a few weeks will have either 2 Cs 1B/2Cs 1D/ or 3Cs, this is in law and 'travel & tourism double award'.


I had not planned or intended to become a trader for my life or career.

For the last 8years i had been focusing and planned to work in the police + continue to run my small online designer clothes retail business and international shipping company, and continue taking body-modelling contracts whenever they came along.


About 2months ago i started having very severe doubts about the police though due to the amount of hours that id have to work would make it unfair on my fiance.

And then 1month ago i decided that i wanted to go fulltime into the only other career i had ever actually considered, back when i was 6-7years old, being a stock broker (trader).



I have a huge amount of enthusiasm, ambition and energy!
I have created for myself and am suceeding with far far more real life business ventures than anyone else ive ever heard of done by my age!

However even though i have extremely high levels of skill in certain types of work, at the same time im just not 1 of those people who can read big thick books about academic or scientific sort of stuff.
I cannot work with and understand complex mathematical equations about scientific or academic things.



Im phsyically strong because i made myself like this..
and worked as a body-model since 11years old to turn this talent and into alot of money for myself!

However i am not 'academically strong', even though i so much wish i was.



But so do i actually have a chance of managing to get into any prop firm in london / sw london area with only the qualifications that i have to write on my CV,
and nowhere near being an expert at all the market jargon and terms???

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Fill out your CV, send it in and see.

The firm itself will tell you yes or no.

Everyone else will just speculate.

 

[spanish89]

Um my CV isnt really what a professional trading firm would have any use for except when they runout of toilet papaer tho...!!


All i can say on it is;
Since 11 - 18years old ive worked as body-model,
qualified to work as a professional bodyguard,
been running an online ebay business selling fake designer clothes and shoes barely making £60profit per week,
owned a shipping company that hasnt even had 1 customer in a whole year,
and now practising trading Ftse, Oil, and AUD/USD on demo accounts, after already losing about £800 of my creditcard in 2weeks!!

 

[keano]

You had me at body model!....You're hired!

Work on you CV a little. Work on up-selling yourself. Someone with a very keen interest who can pass their tests probably has a shot as being hired?....

I dont know for sure, but that's the vibe i've got from some members on here.

goood luck

 

[spanish89]

You had me at body model!....You're hired!

Work on you CV a little. Work on up-selling yourself. Someone with a very keen interest who can pass their tests probably has a shot as being hired?....

I dont know for sure, but that's the vibe i've got from some members on here.

goood luck

LOL

Thanks.


And i wouldnt actually write my CV like that...

Id make it sound really professional and advanced..,
vut eventually if they ask that is basically all there really is.

 

[shadowninja]

As trader_dante's thread suggested, keep demo trading. Even if you can't earn a decent amount now, it will still show enthusiasm for the industry.

PS what've you done re training to be a bodyguard? Tell me more! Sounds like a giggle. Do you get into lots of foights? Can you legally deck someone?

 

[Crap Buddist]

Holda me todas......

Spanish seems like you need to put as much effort in on your internals, as you may of done on your externals. hmmm now psyche maturity doesnt usually whack in until late 20's on (stand to be corrected) but I dunno its like you cant put a wise head on young shoulders ,so i can see with age may come wisdom and inner maturity.

No guarentees of course.

Think about the six pack in your upper head for a couple of years whilst giving the other one a jolly good work out too......

cant rush these things mate... I think you need to commit 100 hours a week for a year or 2, trading can or is a very selfish pursuit .

Why not be a male escort at the weekends earn a few hundred? and study markets all week? Not sure how your lady will react but as always its time and money..

keep the faith. You want it bad enough, nothing will stop you, not even chics... all about choices , and maybe all about seeing choices and choosing.

all the best.

mind you if you have any income that will cover rent n food, then time to study is valuable, means downsizing and cutting back on normal pursuits for a year or so, but again chocices mate. And if that girlfriend demands more of your time ? what you gonna do ?

what would you choose her or trading? if you had to make a choice, if its trading then you stand a chance. I think you need that depth of selfishness or drive to fulfill your own life goals even if being pulled by another. Course im not saying give the bird the flick but just highlight the inner drive required IMHO .

I'll stop ranting, good luck

 

[HeiPaaDeg]

You can do anything you want mate. Personally I have no education at all, but have a really nice job in the computer industry with flexible working hours etc. I have a love for computers and have been fooling around with them since I was 8 years old. For a long time I did not get a job in the industry because of the lacking degree. I just kept applying for jobs and then it turned out one company wanted to try me out. Then I was in! I can write several programing languages and I am maintaining a large scale unix system.

The point is not bragging about what I have done here. The point is to do what you really love. Follow your heart mate!

If you really love something and keep doing it, you will become good at it. I don't know how these trading firms are, but I can only imagine that it's like in any other industry. If you have a proven track record, why would they not consider you?

If you love trading, then trade!

And you will become good at it. A bit childish maybe, but if you are good at it, does it really matter what these firms think?

 

[spanish89]

As trader_dante's thread suggested, keep demo trading. Even if you can't earn a decent amount now, it will still show enthusiasm for the industry.

PS what've you done re training to be a bodyguard? Tell me more! Sounds like a giggle. Do you get into lots of foights? Can you legally deck someone?

LOL

Nah never actally endedup in a fight, only had about 9/10jobs, and they just airport escort jobs.

I went on 14day training programme to get the SIA close protection license.
It was partially about defensive walking techniques and close combat techniques, but was more just about the legal stuff and about how to disfuse potential situations.

I was already a blue belt in judo though so know a little bit about self defence, and i also have full powers of arrest + am legally allowed to use reasonable force to protect myself or others.



And will just ALOT of enthusiasm really get me into a training scheme, even though its well.. me??? :-0

If so what are the 10 main firms that i should apply for that wouldnt require any qualifications??

 

[theroguetrader]

Attitude

LOL

Nah never actally endedup in a fight, only had about 9/10jobs, and they just airport escort jobs.

I went on 14day training programme to get the SIA close protection license.
It was partially about defensive walking techniques and close combat techniques, but was more just about the legal stuff and about how to disfuse potential situations.

I was already a blue belt in judo though so know a little bit about self defence, and i also have full powers of arrest + am legally allowed to use reasonable force to protect myself or others.



And will just ALOT of enthusiasm really get me into a training scheme, even though its well.. me??? :-0

If so what are the 10 main firms that i should apply for that wouldnt require any qualifications??

DONT give up on all this young Sir -

Your enthusiasm and your attitude to stuff in general is AWSOME !! - WITHOUT DOUBT your going to " make it " doing this crazy job called trading - and you WILL make a LOT of money...!!
Take it from me - MOST " grads " dont/wont even make it, because their " attitude " is wrong. - (pure maths grads who want to be quants well thats a bit specialized and diff) Believe me, you dont get many guys your age as interested in this stuff as yourself - (most of em are too busy working for an employer for a fixed wage) -
PLENTY of grads even POST grads working in call centres and flipping burgers THE WORLD OVER.... !!
Look at that " grad " Kerviel that made a little error at SG - and the management (more grads) - who made an even BIGGER error afterwards.???? :idea:

But first of all, you gotta SLOW DOWN A BIT.... !! - At the moment, your brain is like a fragmented hard drive - all bits of information all over the place ....!!
You gotta " structure your learning " more - get more methodical and stick with a PLAN..!!

DONT pull yourself apart because you lost that money - its MORE important to think about " WHY " you lost it..??
THINK about your " behaviour " when it happened - how where you feeling at the time and WHY you made those trading decisions you made...??? Analyze YOURSELF/thought processes.. !!
Sorry if this all sounds all a bit " esoteric " and a bit " though provoking " - but when you learn about this business and you DEVELOP your mind - (which youll need to if you want to deal in big numbers) -
DONT forget - the MORE your leveraged - the LESS room for ERROR their is.. !!!! :!::!:
DONT day trade -
FORGET about Crude Oil and other jazzy instruments that make your computer light up like a christmas tree -
STUDY ONE OR TWO indexes perhaps - LOOK at the charts and CONCENTRATE , and THINK about you ACTUALLY see before your very eyes - NOT what you THINK you see -

If you jumped on a bus and it was headed 20 miles away - (A TREND) - WHY would you get off at the 1st stop ??, (take a profit too soon - FEAR) ...??

The " key " to all this is DISCIPLINE and PERSEVERANCE .. !! THATS ALL.... !!

not jazzy data feeds
not 25 screens -
not spending MORE money on another " holy grail " system - (when you learn more about the markets youll realise they ALL get chewed up at some point) - (optimization is a very interesting area, but at this moment in time just focus on the basics) -
not 00s of indicators because they look nice -(but DONT) work in reality
not CNBC/BLOOMBERG -
ANY so called " professional " on the tv can give you a reason for changing your mind about the direction of a market - you gotta STICK TO YOUR PLAN - !! :!:
no tipsters
no Dail Mail " hot " business section thats written by dinosaurs -


Get your thoughts together - TAKE YOUR TIME - and CONCENTRATE .... !! :!:

 

[trader_dante]

Another thread?! If you spent as much time learning as you do asking the opinion of everyone else on here you'd be closer to your goal.

Spanish, the only way you're going to find out whether you can make it is by applying to firms yourself!!

I can only speak from experience of trading for prop firms but that experience tells me that you have two options: pass the tests and impress in interview or get a track record together.

So my advice is this: apply to a company.

There is a VERY good chance you will at least get to sit the tests.

Go and use it as a learning experience to see how hard they are. If you do that and realise they are too hard and then get confirmation you have failed them THEN you will realise you need to get a solid P&L together.

Mate, I am not trying to plug my thread here because it's not a style of trading that everyone would be comfortable with but I was like you - I wanted to be a trader for a living.

I started with next to nothing (£63 to be precise) and ran that up to several thousand. I then started another account alongside where I had a £150 account opening bonus and did the same thing with that one.

This got me into a firm without the tests.

Not all the trades I took are documented in my thread but if you follow it I believe you will learn the consistency necessary to build a P&L over time and get a foot in the door.

It will also stand you in good stead for trading as a professional because they are essentially trading in a very similar way - that is watching the price action at key levels.

 

[donaldduke]

Im gna just be honest,
I have no real qualifications (8GCSEs 3Bs/3Cs/2Ds, am doing my A-levels which when i finish college in a few weeks will have either 2 Cs 1B/2Cs 1D/ or 3Cs, this is in law and 'travel & tourism double award'.

Since none of your business ventures are doing that great but your grades are good enough to get you in to Uni. Why dont you do that?
Have fun for three years and then decide if you want to be trader or a policeman or whatever else..

 

[spanish89]

Another thread?! If you spent as much time learning as you do asking the opinion of everyone else on here you'd be closer to your goal.

Spanish, the only way you're going to find out whether you can make it is by applying to firms yourself!!

I can only speak from experience of trading for prop firms but that experience tells me that you have two options: pass the tests and impress in interview or get a track record together.

So my advice is this: apply to a company.

There is a VERY good chance you will at least get to sit the tests.

Go and use it as a learning experience to see how hard they are. If you do that and realise they are too hard and then get confirmation you have failed them THEN you will realise you need to get a solid P&L together.

Mate, I am not trying to plug my thread here because it's not a style of trading that everyone would be comfortable with but I was like you - I wanted to be a trader for a living.

I started with next to nothing (£63 to be precise) and ran that up to several thousand. I then started another account alongside where I had a £150 account opening bonus and did the same thing with that one.

This got me into a firm without the tests.

Not all the trades I took are documented in my thread but if you follow it I believe you will learn the consistency necessary to build a P&L over time and get a foot in the door.

It will also stand you in good stead for trading as a professional because they are essentially trading in a very similar way - that is watching the price action at key levels.

Aloha i just read your reply and have added again to your reputation points, but dont know how to 'recommend post'.

I found your reply probably the best ive read out of all the replies to all my topics tho..



I have a few questions that though id really appreciate your help with..

1. What are the 10 firms in London most likely to take on someone who has no qualifications and barely knows anything about all the market jargon and stuff, but just does want to know though??

2. Do you know any links to sites where i can find past test papers so can revise and learn for the sort of questions??

3. What sort of stuff would they ask at interview??


4. Do they actually accept your trade history from demo spread betting accounts as proof of talent??
Because i made almost 800pips last week in just 2days on my demo account, but reset the account then..



And then to you more personally..

How old were you when you started with that £63??

And how did you get it from £63 to a few thousand?? (You must have done some scalping, as couldn't afford margin for wide stoploss), but how exactly did you manage it?? :-0 :-0




And finally
Which of your threads is it??
I looked at your profile but theres 100s so i didn't know which one you were referring to?


Oh p.s Do you think you could do that again if someone gave you £63 today??

 

[candles]

Spanish, This is tradeDantes thread:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/first-steps/26947-making-money-trading.html

I assum he got his account from £63 to several thousand using that very strategy.

 

[timsk]

Hola Spanish,
Please don't take offense (none is intended) but the very nature of your questions are such that you're highly unlikely to get a job at any prop' firm. There's no shame in that, I'm equally unlikely to get a job at one either! Why? Just look at the excellent comments by the pro' traders who work for institutions / prop' firms who've taken the time and trouble to post on this thread. As for t_d 'doing it again from scratch' if he started over - that's a bit like asking if Alan Sugar or Richard Branson could become millionaires again if they each started new businesses! I'd bet my house on it.
Tim.

 

[spanish89]

Been reading Dante's thread over weekend, and also looking at some online ebooks to try and start learning about the fundamentals of all the specific details that every economic event and data release will affect on each of the indicies, oil, and currencies...

F**king tiring..


But atleast im starting to feel more comfortable about trading now...



And ive also been looking at as many of the firms i can find in the london area, looking for ones that specialise in oil, ftse or aud/usd as these are my favourite pairs to choose and 1s i feel most comfortable about now.

I will be applying at end of august because i want to have my summer holiday from may to the to learn more about trading n the markets, and to also sunbathe n relax wiv fiance during the hot days!! :cheesy::cheesy::clap::

cool:

 

[trader_dante]

Hi Spanish,

Only just saw your reply:

What are the 10 firms in London most likely to take on someone who has no qualifications and barely knows anything about all the market jargon and stuff, but just does want to know though??

I can't help you with this but I think that most firms will take you on IF you write a good cover letter expressing a keen interest and you can pass their tests AND hold your own in interview. Like any endeavour in life I would say DO NOT GIVE UP even if several turn you away. But remember that WANTING SOMETHING BADLY is not enough to actually get it. For that you HAVE TO MAKE THE EFFORT. In the early stages you should be reading everything you can get your hands on and trying things out in your demo account.

2. Do you know any links to sites where i can find past test papers so can revise and learn for the sort of questions??

The maths tests are mostly long multiplication and division with the emphasis on speed. Learn to do sums such as 1589 X 271 in around 10 seconds. If you are not naturally gifted at maths realise it takes time but again, with effort it can be learnt and achieved.

Another popular test seems to be The MacQuaig. There seems to be several different versions of this that are used for different things including calculating your intelligence and behavioural attitudes. You can find more on Google.

3. What sort of stuff would they ask at interview??

At a guess:

Why do you want to be a trader?
What makes you think you would make a good trader?
What do you think is the outlook for the economy in the short, mid and long term?

And so on and so forth...

4. Do they actually accept your trade history from demo spread betting accounts as proof of talent??
Because i made almost 800pips last week in just 2days on my demo account, but reset the account then..

I'm not sure about this. I used P&L from a live account. Bear in mind that they would prefer £100 - £500 in 50 trades rather than £100 - £8,000 in 1 trade. They are looking for CONSISTENCY. Anyone can get lucky.

How old were you when you started with that £63??

28

And how did you get it from £63 to a few thousand?? (You must have done some scalping, as couldn't afford margin for wide stoploss), but how exactly did you manage it?? :-0 :-0

It took me just over 6 months. I didn't scalp it's just that my broker (E*Trade) have very low margin requirements.

Oh p.s Do you think you could do that again if someone gave you £63 today??

I believe I could, yes. It is one of my hobbies taking small amounts of money and seeing what I can run them into. I think the hobby arose because a few years back I was talking with a close friend about how most traders fail because they are undercapitalised and how if I had access to £10,000 I could make a living. He replied: "Well that's what they all say. I could make a million if I had £10k. I've got lots of business ideas. But the simple fact is that you don't have access to lots of money. In that way, trading is no more a rags to riches story than any other business venture" Well, I'm pretty compeitive so I started with very small amounts of money to see what I could do with them. And I learnt something valuable from this ongoing experiement. It has taught me the art of very careful selection. My latest account started with just £6. Believe me when you have a minimum trade size of £1 a tick it is hard to find much you can trade. I was forced to trade certain products such as stocks with a value of lower than £2 and wait for the optimal setups. FIND SOMETHING. STUDY IT. WAIT FOR IT TO LINE UP RIGHT. STRIKE. I have made 11 back to back profitable strikes in C&W in this account and increased the money by a good deal

 

[shadowninja]

The maths tests are mostly long multiplication and division with the emphasis on speed. Learn to do sums such as 1589 X 271 in around 10 seconds. If you are not naturally gifted at maths realise it takes time but again, with effort it can be learnt and achieved.

Accurately? :-0

 

[Devilicus]

1589 x 271 in 10 seconds??.......ouch.

 

[0007]

1589 x 271 in 10 seconds??.......ouch.

I could manage that alright on a calculator !

As an aside, this sort of mental agility test is quite similar to that required in submarine warfare and tactical military flying - both similar in many ways to some types of trading where the right calculation / decision has to be made in quick time. Participants in these occupations do find that practice makes perfect - though having a "quick" mind to start with does help. Moreover, you don't need to be a mathematician - that's different.