Metatrader 5 -brokers - disadvantages

Still on your soapbox ODT? MT5 is in beta testing you know. It's not "out". No brokers are offering to take your money to let you trade using it.

A quote from MetaQuotes:

"The platform testing will take about 5-6 months"

Why don't we all reconvene here in 6 months time and discuss the merits or otherwise of MT5 then? If any brokers are offering live MT5 accounts by then, that is.

Jim
 
oildaytrader said:
The pile of DUNG has been released .

Look at faults

The piece of **** is out and read the complaints

MetaTrader 5 Client Terminal - Page 21 - Forex Trading

Not much much interest in MT5.

MetaTrader 5 Client Terminal - Page 20 - Forex Trading

Most bucketshops will probably end up with this headachache.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/metatrader/74696-metatrader-bucket-shops.html
Click to expand...

MT5 won't be released for another 6 months (at least) for live accounts. Of course it's going to have bugs, that's why it's in beta testing. And even once it is fully released, I will be surprised if many brokers offer it initially rather than wait and see what technical issues the first adopters experience.
 
sakhter said:
I have no idea how MT5 is set-up. I wanted to do a beta test, but wasn't invited to the club.

I am still allowed to place both pending buy and sells on my MT4 platform (US broker)--but I've seen other brokers completely eliminate the simultaneous pending order feature EVEN THOUGH it is not hedging.

The only brokers I know that still allow pending orders on both sides are FXDD & dbFX. Anyone using MT4 should stay away from brokers who claim to NOT have a dealing desk.
Sometimes you need a dealer stupid enough to take the other side of your trade.
Click to expand...

I tried the MT5 demo and you can place pending orders in opposing directions. Positions will net unlike the current MT4 setup that gives error message. The demo is available on the Boston Technologies website .
 
Interesting thread overall, and I think there's a sense of paranoia about MT5 when things are in very early stages of testing and release.

I have a neutral opinion on the product. The way Metaquotes setup MT5 whereby it aggregates positions into one order makes sense for them to enhance their product offering in the US to comply with regulations and also allow brokers to offer additional products through the exchange order and depth of market features.

I don't see them discontinuing MT4 either since there's a huge amount of business built around expert advisors, and broker demand to cater to these traders (no matter what you think about EA's pro/con) will keep it in operation.

I haven't seen the technical details on how MT5 back end execution works, but I do hope they designed it better for an industry shifting away from dealing desk execution towards STP. MT4 was designed for a dealing desk, so integrating it with STP feeds through technology bridges is not the easiest task.
 
Jason

Updating technology is a good idea , but the way MT5 is done.It has simply chopped the legs of the trader.All it takes is a simple hedging enabled code

O D T
 
oildaytrader said:
Jason

Updating technology is a good idea , but the way MT5 is done.It has simply chopped the legs of the trader.All it takes is a simple hedging enabled code

O D T
Click to expand...

I agree that not catering to traders that want hedging is not a step in the right direction; however, as long as MT4 continues to be offered I see the exclusion of hedging from MT5 as an inconvenience. Maybe metaquotes will have a future version with hedging capabilities?

The concept of hedging and it's legitimacy could be a thread in and of itself :)

On a positive note, I just discovered MT5 has additional time frames such as 3 hour charts. A welcome change.
 
Jason Rogers said:
I agree that not catering to traders that want hedging is not a step in the right direction; however, as long as MT4 continues to be offered I see the exclusion of hedging from MT5 as an inconvenience. Maybe metaquotes will have a future version with hedging capabilities?

The concept of hedging and it's legitimacy could be a thread in and of itself :)
Click to expand...

Maybe this should be in a separate thread, but since we're here and your organization offers accounts both with and without "hedging" maybe you could take us through a worked example of a trader who runs both a long term and a short term strategy on the same currency pair in the same account. From time to time one strategy will be long at the same time as the other is short.

Assuming there are no other differences between the two accounts, should we advise our hypothetical trader to use the "hedging" account or not? What would his costs be in terms of spread, swap and margin in each case?

Jim
 
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Trading Gurus said:
Maybe this should be in a separate thread, but since we're here and your organization offers accounts both with and without "hedging" maybe you could take us through a worked example of a trader who runs both a long term and a short term strategy on the same currency pair in the same account. From time to time one strategy will be long at the same time as the other is short.

Assuming there are no other differences between the two accounts, should we advise our hypothetical trader to use the "hedging" account or not? What would his costs be in terms of spread, swap and margin in each case?

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim,

I agree with you that by hedging a position you are effectively flat on the trade. And your costs are higher since you paid the spread again by opening the second trade. Margin is half the total hedged position so it wouldn't have an effect. For traders that simply want to stop their losses, closing the position is the most cost effective

There are situations where our traders are adamant about using it such as in MT4 and the Forex System Selector. Many MT4 traders using expert advisors want to run multiple expert advisors on the same currency pair. The EA's can give conflicting signals which would cause the problems if there were no hedging. The second instance is on the Forex System Selector platform we offer. Much in the same scenario with EA's on MT4, traders can choose multiple systems in the same currency pair which could give conflicting signals. Without hedging, the strategies could close each other's trades.

The second instance is if a trader wants to have both short-term and long-term positions in the same currency pair. There could be instances where the trader has a conflicting opinion on the short term versus the long term outlook.
 
Hi Jason,

Thanks for the info. It makes a pleasant change for someone from within the forex industry to speak the plain truth on this subject. If I might reiterate that point for emphasis.

If you utilise "hedging" your costs are higher. You pay the spread twice.

If forex traders are aware of that fact and are adamant that they want to pay the extra cost then who am I to argue? I do have an alternative suggestion though. Wouldn't it be better for your customers if they could use more than one strategy without being forced to pay the spread twice? Maybe MetaTrader 4, the Forex System Selector and the "multiple systems" that run on those platforms could all benefit from an upgrade?

Maybe the much maligned MetaTrader 5 might even be some help in that regard? If and when it ever comes out of beta and goes live, that is.

Jim
 
Trading Gurus said:
Hi Jason,

If you utilise "hedging" your costs are higher. You pay the spread twice.:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Jim
Click to expand...

If you have two trades u pay two spreads, if you have two wives you have twice the expenses , two lottery tickets cost twice .

If you use hedging you close out a long and a short opportunity = no position , no trade , zero trade
 
Back again ODT?

I could be mistaken, but I think you might be missing out the odd word in your closing remark, not to mention the odd quotation mark. Shouldn't you have said something like:

'If you don't use "hedging" you close out a long and a short "opportunity" = no position , no trade , zero trade'

If you do use "hedging" you have two trades, surely?

Jim
 
Trading Gurus said:
Hi Jason,

Thanks for the info. It makes a pleasant change for someone from within the forex industry to speak the plain truth on this subject. If I might reiterate that point for emphasis.

If you utilise "hedging" your costs are higher. You pay the spread twice.

If forex traders are aware of that fact and are adamant that they want to pay the extra cost then who am I to argue? I do have an alternative suggestion though. Wouldn't it be better for your customers if they could use more than one strategy without being forced to pay the spread twice? Maybe MetaTrader 4, the Forex System Selector and the "multiple systems" that run on those platforms could all benefit from an upgrade?

Maybe the much maligned MetaTrader 5 might even be some help in that regard? If and when it ever comes out of beta and goes live, that is.

Jim
Click to expand...

Imagine you have two different money managers you give a portion of your trading equity to and tell them to trade the account based on their strategy. They each have their own account, trading the same products, but are able to run their strategies independent of each other. Does one money manager pay a trading cost and the other not pay since technically the investor's positions cancel each other out. Diversifying between strategies is a legitimate option. Our accounts with hedging allow traders to do that through one account rather than having to open multiple accounts.

For traders that are simply hedging to delay the eventual realization of a loss, then hedging makes them no better off. For our traders running multiple strategies on the same accounts, it is a sensible tool. Many MT4 users run multiple expert advisors on the same currency pair, and our platform the Forex System Selector allows traders to build portfolios with multiple systems trading the same pair.
 
Hi Jason,

That's a neat trick. You'll have to teach me how to do it. You seem to have managed to post a tracking link to a commercial website. I thought that was a banning offence on t2w, but I guess I must be mistaken.

Jim
 
We do not give a monkeys about metatrader 5 or the metatrader bucket shops and their crap execution.We can write an api and use better execution brokers.

I have already moved to other platforms which allow hedging and automated spreadbetting.
 
Hello again ODT. Long time no see!

It seems you've moved up in the world now. Writing APIs even. Most impressive!

I feel I do need to point out though, that unless you know something I don't (which sounds entirely possible), none of us have actually used MetaTrader 5 in anger on a live account as yet, so we're not really in a position to comment on how good (or otherwise) execution is going to be on MetaQuotes shiny new platform. Surely it must be better than MT4 plus a cr@p bridge?

I certainly haven't heard any rumours to the effect that "automated spreadbetting" brokers will be using MT5 if and when it's finally finished, so if you're lucky enough to be subject to the wondrous UK tax laws I'm sure that move was a wise one.

I'm not so sure about the "hedging" though.

Jim
 
Many brokers who use Metatrader 4 will also offer MT5 in the near future, especially the NFA regulated brokers. You can find a big list of MT4 and MT5 brokers here: Metatrader 5 Brokers
Maybe you can include this link in the first post, the table with Metatrader brokers is really useful. ;)
 
Hi miranon,

That list of MetaTrader 5 brokers is not really very useful I'm afraid. Even if you do happen to stumble across a broker that has already branded MT5 you will find that they don't keep up with the still frequent updates emerging from Russia.

If you or anyone else reading this are interested in beta testing MT5, you'll find it's best to get it straight from the horses mouth:

http://metatrader5.com/ :cool:

I'm on build 298. How about you?

Cheers,

Jim
 
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