Mentors and Intra Day Traders

[dbphoenix]

"Stress response" is also a manifestation of fear. And, yes, there's plenty of free stuff online on this subject. Unfortunately, traders instead focus on what indicators to use and where to place their stops.

 

[foroom lluzers]

"Stress response" is also a manifestation of fear. And, yes, there's plenty of free stuff online on this subject. Unfortunately, traders instead focus on what indicators to use and where to place their stops.

Fear and all these phsychological issues are the manifestations of the stress response.Trading is an extremely stressfull mental acivity , for which the human brain is not wired , if you don't win the market will mess you up


It means control of greed ,impulsive trading , the need to be right , stress , amygdala hijackings , revenge (emotions) trading , mistakes in trading , frustrations -anger-loss and many other emotions like the fear of missing out on entries/exits , patience /impatience , loss of wealth ,loss of account .

Greed is triggered by the emotional brain ,impusive trading is caused by emotional brain, revenge trading is done by emotional brain , mistakes are the direct result of stress and hippocampus shutdown , emotional brain is responsible for all major financial decisions in trading , the emotional brain shuts down the rational brain or frontal cortex.Stress arouses fear and hijacks the emotional brain /amygdala hijackings , the stress of losing drives fear of missing out and it makes you impatient , the stress of potential loss shuts down the hippocampus.

When markets become unpredicable and extremely violent , the stress response is triggered

“The continual retention of memories demands a frenzy of neuronal activity. In fact, the vast majority of neurogenesis—the brain’s production of new neurons and laying down connections to others—takes place in the hippocampus” . The hippocampus is especially vulnerable to ongoing emotional distress, because of the damaging effects of cortisol. When the body endures ongoing stress, cortisol affects the rate at which neurons are either added or subtracted from the hippocampus. This can be a tremendous assault on learning. When the neurons are attacked by cortisol, the hippocampus loses neurons and is reduced in size. In fact, duration of stress is almost as destructive as extreme stress. “Cortisol stimulates the amygdala while it impairs the hippocampus, forcing our attention onto the emotions we feel, while restricting our ability to take in new information” .

Just search the internet on hippocampus shutdown and stress

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...pv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=+hippocampus+shut+down+stress


Writers are paid to write articles and forum content , on subjects they have no authority on.

 

[dbphoenix]

Fear and all these phsychological issues are the manifestations of the stress response.Trading is an extremely stressfull mental acivity , for which the human brain is not wired , if you don't win the market will mess you up

You have it reversed. The stress occurs due to fear and having failed to address that fear. Trading need not be stressful. If one is stressed, resorting to the wiring argument is merely an excuse.

If a trader has issues with stress, he needs to determine just what it is he's afraid of then address that fear. Once he has done so, he will either begin to trade without fear or he will be faced with continuing and perpetual stress. The latter is the case with most traders, but it is a choice, not a given.

 

[foroom lluzers]

You have it reversed. The stress occurs due to fear and having failed to address that fear. Trading need not be stressful. If one is stressed, resorting to the wiring argument is merely an excuse.

If a trader has issues with stress, he needs to determine just what it is he's afraid of then address that fear. Once he has done so, he will either begin to trade without fear or he will be faced with continuing and perpetual stress. The latter is the case with most traders, but it is a choice, not a given.

Fear is only one of the causes of stress ,it is the most powerful one , you seem to be stuck up that fear is the only cause of stress .

Please enlighten yourself and rewrite that article , then write a detailed article on trading stress .Your knowledge is limited and for readers to believe that fear is the only cause of stress would be naive.There are many other causes of stress.


https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...ie=UTF-8#q=causes+of+stress+internal+external


Examine internal stressors for trader:attitudes,thoughts,emotions of frustrations ,anger and annoyance ,imagination (human handicap at processing information),human brain is a poor judge of risk due to brain structure (biased and emotionally based decisions)

Stressors that are found in our surroundings are called environmental stressors. Everyday life is full of environmental stressors that cause minor irritations. If you use an alarm clock to wake up, the loud noise from your alarm is an environmental stressor.
Examine the environmental stressors for traders:bucket shop moving spreads and prices against trader , internet connection, computer , software and many other environmental stressors

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...2&ie=UTF-8#q=external+environmental+stressors


Examine causes of stress for a trader:loss of money ,

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=CAUSES+OF+STRESS

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=trading+stress

Not all trades are winners, how can I mentally prepare myself for losses?
How would you prevent impulsive decisions trading?
If I can't grasp trading, at what point should I call it quits?
I'm struggling to call quits, at what point should I seek professional help?
Perfectionism
Worry
Overconfidence
Negative Thinking
Self-blame



You have just proved ,that mentors and salesmen , you will sell fear as an answer ,like all the mentors and gurus who are waiting to sell a solution.Here I am proving you know nothing about this subject .

 

[dbphoenix]

Please enlighten yourself and rewrite that article , then write a detailed article on trading stress .Your knowledge is limited and for readers to believe that fear is the only cause of stress would be naive.There are many other causes of stress.

A stress response is a response to stress. However, there is nothing inherently stressful about trading. Whatever stress the trader experiences is brought by the trader. Rather than look to neurology as a rationalization for his stress, he is more likely to advance by determining the reasons for his stress. Determining that his stress is "unavoidable" will not make him a winner.

 

[thedawgee]

Fear is only one of the causes of stress ,it is the most powerful one , you seem to be stuck up that fear is the only cause of stress .

Please enlighten yourself and rewrite that article , then write a detailed article on trading stress .Your knowledge is limited and for readers to believe that fear is the only cause of stress would be naive.There are many other causes of stress.


https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...ie=UTF-8#q=causes+of+stress+internal+external


Examine internal stressors for trader:attitudes,thoughts,emotions of frustrations ,anger and annoyance ,imagination (human handicap at processing information),human brain is a poor judge of risk due to brain structure (biased and emotionally based decisions)

Stressors that are found in our surroundings are called environmental stressors. Everyday life is full of environmental stressors that cause minor irritations. If you use an alarm clock to wake up, the loud noise from your alarm is an environmental stressor.
Examine the environmental stressors for traders:bucket shop moving spreads and prices against trader , internet connection, computer , software and many other environmental stressors

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...2&ie=UTF-8#q=external+environmental+stressors


Examine causes of stress for a trader:loss of money ,

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=CAUSES+OF+STRESS

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=trading+stress

Not all trades are winners, how can I mentally prepare myself for losses?
How would you prevent impulsive decisions trading?
If I can't grasp trading, at what point should I call it quits?
I'm struggling to call quits, at what point should I seek professional help?
Perfectionism
Worry
Overconfidence
Negative Thinking
Self-blame



You have just proved ,that mentors and salesmen , you will sell fear as an answer ,like all the mentors and gurus who are waiting to sell a solution.Here I am proving you know nothing about this subject .

Well said. It is amazing that t2w even allows this product vendor to operate on their website.

 

[thedawgee]

A stress response is a response to stress. However, there is nothing inherently stressful about trading. Whatever stress the trader experiences is brought by the trader. Rather than look to neurology as a rationalization for his stress, he is more likely to advance by determining the reasons for his stress. Determining that his stress is "unavoidable" will not make him a winner.

You do not say anything of value, why do wish to plague the learning process of aspiring traders?.

It is shameful that charlatans prey on beginners.

We see you for what you are-

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/db-phoenix-failed-trader-turned-et-troll.286042/

 

[foroom lluzers]

You do not say anything of value, why do wish to plague the learning process of aspiring traders?.

It is shameful that charlatans prey on beginners.

We see you for what you are-

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/db-phoenix-failed-trader-turned-et-troll.286042/

It is never too late to change and learn , he can provide a really good article that will benefit members and boost the learning process of aspiring traders.

I would not give any credibility to E T , because it is full own trolls , that destroy the content in favour of sponsors paying $36,000 a year in forum sponsorship per a dozen sponsors , all the content is manipulated in favour of sponsors and brokers and is crap content regurgitated by traders.

 

[foroom lluzers]

Years of solid scientific unbiased evidence clearly shows that Day Trading is a losers game.

try weekly /monthly swing trading on stock indices , you get overnight , weekend and trend moves , stock markets are long biased with an edge for long trades.:clap:

 

[darktone]

A stress response is a response to stress. However, there is nothing inherently stressful about trading. Whatever stress the trader experiences is brought by the trader. Rather than look to neurology as a rationalization for his stress, he is more likely to advance by determining the reasons for his stress. Determining that his stress is "unavoidable" will not make him a winner.

Yep, spot on.

 

[foroom lluzers]

You are right..and you are wrong!

Of course mentors will take your money..after all..that is their "business model". If one is silly enough to hand over their money..well..they really deserve what they get.

Now the wrong bit.

Daytraders lose because of one simple fact..that being..they do not know what they are doing. Any job, trade, profession..requires years of experience (good and bad) to become the best at what you do..be it hanging a door..wiring a fuseboard..plastering a ceiling..selling cars..insurance policies..managing people..managing accounts..etc..etc..etc.

The big problem with daytrading is that the information out there is not the best information that allows one to shorten the learning curve. If an apprentice trains with a top notch qualified tradesman, then the chances are the apprentice will turn out to be a top notch tradesman also..unless he is as thick as a plank of course..in which case he will never be good at doing anything.

So..if one is really adamant about shortening the learning curve..then one has to make it one's business to find the best tradesman to train one..and this is not easy..as the majority are clueless about what is really required to make money daytrading..and it is the exact opposite of what most think it is!

Btw..I am a vendor as you can see..but I have never taken a penny from any person who has ever asked me anything about trading..nor will I ever do so.

Here is a tip for those who must seek out the best of the best..if He or She does not insist on showing you all about losing trades first..then He or She is more than likely in the top 99% of mentors out there.

Most are clueless when it comes to daytrading..and they show how silly and ridiculous they really are the minute they open their mouths.

You are totally incorrect and have absolutely no idea about day trading , we are all happy to read from Vendors who post in trader's forums and pollute the contents of the trading forums.

Here is the answer :

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/edu...92-your-brain-wasnt-built-handle-reality.html

Elite trader is always hiring forum's own trolls to reduce all content in favour of vendors and marketing sales , thereby wasting trader's valuable time .You would be suitable there.

when the blind vendors /mentors lead the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.
Those people who are unsuccesful at trading ,should not pollute trading forums , should not try to guide or advise others in a similar position.
‘I didn't know enough about succesful and neither did my students—it was the blind leading the blind’

 

[dbphoenix]

Actually he's absolutely correct. Becoming expert on the amygdala is not going to turn a losing trader into a winning one. At the very least the beginning trader must study the market and his instrument, learn how to formulate and test hypotheses, develop a trading plan, practice, maintain meticulous records, analyze every trade, revise his hypotheses if necessary, and begin again. At the very least.

You project the persona of someone who is an expert trader. Why not show us how you translate academics into actual trades and trading?

 

[foroom lluzers]

Actually he's absolutely correct. Becoming expert on the amygdala is not going to turn a losing trader into a winning one. At the very least the beginning trader must study the market and his instrument, learn how to formulate and test hypotheses, develop a trading plan, practice, maintain meticulous records, analyze every trade, revise his hypotheses if necessary, and begin again. At the very least.

An expert reading of the full phsychology of the trader (including full knowledge of amygdala and hippocampus) , will prepare the amateur trader for switching from demo to real , most (if not all) new traders can not replicate demo results on live accounts .Even the mentors and vendors can not replicate their theories on live accounts, otherwise they would be trading and not mentoring.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...F-8#q=new+traders+fail++demo+to+real+account+


When trading a demo account , your subconcious brain knows there is no money to lose ,it does not matter if the demo money is lost ,no stress or emotions are involved.

The switch to live account involves fear of loss and an overreactive amygdala , it also involves the stress response and hippopocampus shut down leading to mistakes .The command centre in the brain is shut down ,so the beginner trader's early work goes into dustbin and emotional and stress responses take over.This is how the trader now performs under trading phsychosis dealing with the uncertainty , in his immediate surroundings.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=amygdala+overreacts

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=stress+response+shutdown

https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&q=stress+response+shutdown+hippocampus&hl=en&

All the beginner work is useless , unless his brain command centre can execute the beginner work.:smart::smart:

The vendors benefit from this early beginners work , good money is spent on courses ,seminars , books , signals , mentoring , coaching , price action education , trend trading education , phsychological education and counselling , trading software , automated software , indicators , purchased systems , purchased methods and hundreds of little add ons in costs .

Some of the super courses are generating $60,000 a year for Vendors , why should they trade at all?


Vendors who have never traded real money succesfully , will never know the interference from the amygdala and hippocampus shutdown , and how it affects real trading.An example is : a trader used to suddenly input much larger trade sizes due to an overreaction of the amygdala , the hippocampus shutdown(due to stress) resulted in mistakes on large amounts and lead reactive trades and revenge trades.

Here is a video that is typical of how much the trading industry vendors can sell

Just search on google for videoes about "videos greenacres a few scenes with mr hanley ".

 

[dbphoenix]

An expert reading of the full phsychology [sic] of the trader (including full knowledge of amygdala and hippocampus) , will prepare the amateur trader for switching from demo to real . . .

Yes, of course it will.

 

[foroom lluzers]

Why do so many lose at day trading?

Easy...Almost all humans are hardwired to lose.

It's in the genes.

They can't help it.

Let your profits run and cut your loses.

Ain't going to happen.

A google search will confirm this

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour...e+human+brain+is+wired+to+lose+in+the+markets


Our brain relies on certainty , when you see a small profit , it is certain profit whereas running an illusionary profit , a profit that is not certainly going to happen is rejected in favour of "TAKE SMALL PROFITS ".

People like to recover losses , that is why we go to court , to recover money and traders end up running losses .

We go to supermarkets and buy 1 get 1 free , even though we will never use the free lunch.We will trade 3,000 free lunch systems on forum failures or forex factory , without any phsychology threads or sections to tell us about our phsyche!

 

[sigmund1]

The Turtles. Beware

How about the Turtles.

How about Richard Dennis and Curtis Faith.

On the surface a pair of money making machines.

But where's the proof?

The facts...

Richard Dennis during the 1980's and 1990's destroyed millions of investors money blowing up fund after fund under his management.

Reported the Collins 1 and 2 Funds lost 55% and 75% of investors money before being shut down.

Curtis Faith, it gets worse...

Curtis Faith: Firm Permanently Barred by U.S. Government.


The real Curtis Faith story resembles nothing of his autobiographical accounts. This rotten story reveals the extent to which false legends can be created on Wall Street. The details are overwhelming: Multiple arrests in multiple States, multiple Government documents and depositions, a Faith family member, other traders, performance records, direct interviews with Faith’s former business associates, a former employee and Faith’s own words–all show him different than his representations.

“I am out of money. None at all. Well, $27 in my pocket. No more anywhere. My wife doesn’t work. I’ve spent every last dime working on trying to figure out a way to make a difference and now I’m left with $27. That’s a twenty and seven ones thats pretty rough"....Curtis Faith 2012.

source, Turtle Trader web site. wikipedia.

Personal note...I think it's hilarious, you couldn't make this stuff up.

I wonder how many idiot's have handed over their hard earned cash for the Turtles Methods.

At one time, being sold for $25,000 for a weeks mentoring.

Just like Turtles they all ended up in the soup.

Even our Nans smiling.

 

[foroom lluzers]

How about the Turtles.

How about Richard Dennis and Curtis Faith.

On the surface a pair of money making machines.

But where's the proof?

The turtles myth is a selling point for internet marketeers .He invented the microsoft software , by turtles-microsoft ,it will make you rich.All these winners and marketeers are hanging out as trolls on another forum as vendors.




The whole world is using it , you are the only one missing out .GO BUY IT .

 

[foroom lluzers]

Yep, spot on.

I like your wisdom on stress

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/educational-resources/21064-how-stress-can-ruin-your-trading.html

 

[piphoe]

A stress response is a response to stress. However, there is nothing inherently stressful about trading. Whatever stress the trader experiences is brought by the trader. Rather than look to neurology as a rationalization for his stress, he is more likely to advance by determining the reasons for his stress. Determining that his stress is "unavoidable" will not make him a winner.

Take your COMFORTABLE stressfree size and ramp it X10. report back

 

[foroom lluzers]

A stress response is a response to stress. However, there is nothing inherently stressful about trading. Whatever stress the trader experiences is brought by the trader. Rather than look to neurology as a rationalization for his stress, he is more likely to advance by determining the reasons for his stress. Determining that his stress is "unavoidable" will not make him a winner.

I am sorry , please educate yourself about stress.You know nothing , there is an article on it.