Marex Spectron Pro Trader Development Program

[treadwellism]

I understand it's a bitter pill to swallow having felt like you have wasted your time the last few months but my advice would still be to walk away if you can - theres probably enough wriggle room in a Marex contract that gives them an out - also they will have an in house legal team who could fight you at no real cost to the firm.. you did well to get on the course in the first place so your obviously a bright guy - theres a saying I like which is normally good for trading but can be handy in life itself.. "know when to hold and when to fold" - dont let this bad experience throw you off your game plan! let it go

A company can't act like they have and get away with it. Starting a thread like this and taking legal action is entirely necessary and not even time consuming.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

If the initial terms were put in writing to you in the form of a contract and then the contract was ammended, then they havn't got a leg to stand on.

 

[treadwellism]

Marex sent me a letter saying that if I defamed them in any forum they would take legal action against me.

I honestly believe that simply publishing that letter and letting people see the menacing nature of it would hurt them more than any of my opinions.

 

[pboyles]

Marex sent me a letter saying that if I defamed them in any forum they would take legal action against me.

I honestly believe that simply publishing that letter and letting people see the menacing nature of it would hurt them more than any of my opinions.

Why don't you publish it here then? They said you couldn't defame them, they didn't say you couldn't quote them. Why not post it here without any comment?

 

[Liquid validity]

Marex sent me a letter saying that if I defamed them in any forum they would take legal action against me.

I honestly believe that simply publishing that letter and letting people see the menacing nature of it would hurt them more than any of my opinions.

Be careful, if the letter says 'in confidence' or similar, they could still
do you for defamation, if the contents of the letter are considered confidential.
Read it carefully before you post it, if there is anything remotely like that,
I wouldn't post it and just walk away and chalk it up as experience.

More importantly, you also need to check if there is a confidentiality clause in the employment contract.
If so they are more than likely covered legally to carry out their defamation threat.
That's on top of breaching any confidentiality clause.
You could still seek professional legal advice (just not air in public).
Unless I'm missing something, you've lost nothing, so you could potentially cause a
lot of grief for yourself, with no gain.

 

[random12345]

Yeah, the issue is you could only get them for misselling - except of course they didn't sell you a service, so there is no reckless or deliberate proof of harm. They just lied to you about a potential source of income, which in itself isn't proof of tangible loss of revenue, even if it was written down. You've said yourself that all you have is the fact it cost you money to attend and lost earnings. Since you are not the US Gov't vs BP, you would have to actually evidence the lost earnings. Are you really going to issue a claim based on this?

I think it's a good thing what you've done, as at least people can google this thread, and you're right not to let them bully you about. However, you'll probably have to leave it here...

Prop shops (especially in London) are generally awful places run by awful people, with a tiny number of exceptions. If you want a trading job, aim for top tier.

 

[Seenitallbefore]

I'm surprised

I'm sorry to hear that. I've worked in the prop business as a trader and trainer for many years, including a period with Marex. Marex were by far the most professional, honest and decent people I have worked with, so I'm surprised to hear that you weren't happy and are accusing them of being dodgy.
Out of interest, I know a lot of the posts on these forums are from disgruntled trainees or people who Marex thought weren't good enough. Sadly, it happens. Did you progress from the SIM ? Who trained you ? Were you profitable most days, or at least had more and bigger winning days than losing ones ?
FYI, despite our/my experience and best efforts in selection and coaching, for every 10 trainees we take on, about 5 just don't get it, despite excellent training and our very good track record, and we mutually agree that trading is not for them after 6-12 weeks. Of the remaining 5, they progress to between £25-50,000 a year within 12 months of going live; then within about 2 years, 2 will be making £100,000+, two £200,000+ and one up to £1m.
BTW, I no longer have anything to do with Marex directly so am unbiased, although I do clear through them and know many senior, successful traders who do also. They have a fantastic reputation built on 14 years of treating people very well, so in addition to being surprised if they did shaft you, I'd be equally surprised if they have broken a contract in any way.

I'd be interested to hear more detail of your experiences. Are you still trading ?

Don't join this program. You will be responsible for 100% of the losses and only receive 50% of the profit.

I was on the program and was lied to about when I would go live and how much desk fees I would pay.

I resigned recently after four months of working there. I am now taking legal action against the company.

I am happy to answer any questions on the company, just post them below.

 

[Seenitallbefore]

Have any of the other 16 'in the same position' posted anything ?

Initial terms: 50:50 split, no liability for losses, no desk fees for six months. I was offered 100% liability for losses and no guarantee that desk would be subsidised at all.

I had six weeks of excellent tuition when I first joined. Macroeconomics, trading psychology, price action, technical analysis followed by intensive sim training. After that time period it was more like amuse yourself while we draft the contract. That lasted 10 weeks.

Sixteen others are in my position.

Can you direct us all to their posts please ?

 

[treadwellism]

I'm sorry to hear that. I've worked in the prop business as a trader and trainer for many years, including a period with Marex. Marex were by far the most professional, honest and decent people I have worked with, so I'm surprised to hear that you weren't happy and are accusing them of being dodgy.
Out of interest, I know a lot of the posts on these forums are from disgruntled trainees or people who Marex thought weren't good enough. Sadly, it happens. Did you progress from the SIM ? Who trained you ? Were you profitable most days, or at least had more and bigger winning days than losing ones ?
FYI, despite our/my experience and best efforts in selection and coaching, for every 10 trainees we take on, about 5 just don't get it, despite excellent training and our very good track record, and we mutually agree that trading is not for them after 6-12 weeks. Of the remaining 5, they progress to between £25-50,000 a year within 12 months of going live; then within about 2 years, 2 will be making £100,000+, two £200,000+ and one up to £1m.
BTW, I no longer have anything to do with Marex directly so am unbiased, although I do clear through them and know many senior, successful traders who do also. They have a fantastic reputation built on 14 years of treating people very well, so in addition to being surprised if they did shaft you, I'd be equally surprised if they have broken a contract in any way.

I'd be interested to hear more detail of your experiences. Are you still trading ?

I was surprised as well. Before joining I searched these forums trying to learn about the company that I was joining. Everything that I found was positive and to my knowledge Marex never had any problems before our course. I'm sure people that couldn't make it do leave bitter posts on these sites however that wasn't the case in this situation.

I never progressed from the sim because I was told that I had to sign the contract before I could, if I'd signed it they would have given me limits. I'm not going to name the people that trained me but they weren't the problem. I understand that nobody can teach you how to trade and that it is up to you to teach yourself. The people that trained me had no power in the business and were too scared to negotiate on our behalf with their bosses the more senior management. They were lied to as well.

I made steady profits trading oil calender spreads and also profited trading the CGB/T-Note Spread through figures. I lost money trading the EuroStoxx and pretty much broke even on the S+P. Overrall I was up, most of my size was in oil.

I have in front of me the original job offer with the promise of no desk fees for 6 months and 0 liability for losses and the contract that was put in front of me to sign four months later with neither of these terms. If there was an implied contract they broke it.

I understood the nature of the futures trading industry when I took the job on and if I'd started and lost money I know I couldn't complain about getting chopped. In fact your strike rate of 50% sounds higher than I had expected.

Right now I'm continuing in my previous job as a professional gambler on the in-play sports markets. I'm determined to one day return to futures and give it a shot.

As for the others on my course, some have quit and are trying to sue, others have signed the awful contract on the whim that the trainers (who have no power) have said that they won't come after them for losses despite the fact that it says in the contract that they will.

 

[Seenitallbefore]

Hmmm...odd

I was surprised as well. Before joining I searched these forums trying to learn about the company that I was joining. Everything that I found was positive and to my knowledge Marex never had any problems before our course. I'm sure people that couldn't make it do leave bitter posts on these sites however that wasn't the case in this situation.

I never progressed from the sim because I was told that I had to sign the contract before I could, if I'd signed it they would have given me limits. I'm not going to name the people that trained me but they weren't the problem. I understand that nobody can teach you how to trade and that it is up to you to teach yourself. The people that trained me had no power in the business and were too scared to negotiate on our behalf with their bosses the more senior management. They were lied to as well.

I made steady profits trading oil calender spreads and also profited trading the CGB/T-Note Spread through figures. I lost money trading the EuroStoxx and pretty much broke even on the S+P. Overrall I was up, most of my size was in oil.

I have in front of me the original job offer with the promise of no desk fees for 6 months and 0 liability for losses and the contract that was put in front of me to sign four months later with neither of these terms. If there was an implied contract they broke it.

I understood the nature of the futures trading industry when I took the job on and if I'd started and lost money I know I couldn't complain about getting chopped. In fact your strike rate of 50% sounds higher than I had expected.

Right now I'm continuing in my previous job as a professional gambler on the in-play sports markets. I'm determined to one day return to futures and give it a shot.

As for the others on my course, some have quit and are trying to sue, others have signed the awful contract on the whim that the trainers (who have no power) have said that they won't come after them for losses despite the fact that it says in the contract that they will.

Contracts are designed to protect the prop house but to develop the trainee too. Obviously, any prop house won't last long if they shaft their trainees. Their future revenues will only come from developing, and keeping, new talent, so it's very much in their interest to keep good trainees. Good relationships are essential, because it creates a friendship and loyalty that means you develop together and both succeed.
It's normal and right that you can't move from SIM until you've signed a contract, after all external training costs £10-20,000 and trainees get this free, so they have to get their investment back. Normally contracts are that when you go live, your desk fees begin to accrue, but that you are not liable for these or for any losses should you not develop and succeed over time.
Those that do well hopefully continue to grow, although as you are trading small size live to start and still learning, your monthly fees can exceed your profits for a few months, so it's essential that you size up as fast as is reasonable according to you P/L.
My advice would be to take all you've learned and open a small account with a spread better, then if you make steady profits over 4-6 months, re-apply to another house. Legal action will only cause you grief and as in all things legal, the best funded person always wins.

 

[rsh01]

Be careful, if the letter says 'in confidence' or similar, they could still

surely the OP not the only person who has had the letter? so download a proxy browser (tor) which scrambles your IP address - do in a sh1t internet cafe which allowes you to download, perhaps set up on another nic & post it. gonna be hard to prove it was you doing it.

 

[Shakone]

surely the OP not the only person who has had the letter? so download a proxy browser (tor) which scrambles your IP address - do in a sh1t internet cafe which allowes you to download, perhaps set up on another nic & post it. gonna be hard to prove it was you doing it.

I would think that he can just post it anyway, regardless of whether it says confidential or not. You can't send someone something and legally force them not to reveal the details just by putting confidential on it. He's not even under contract with them. I'd say the recipient has every right to reveal the content to whomsoever he/she wishes as long as it is just the true facts and not anything slanderous.

 

[rsh01]

Please see the original job description:
The PTDP begins with a 2 month, full time, intensive course establishing the essential foundations required to become a self-employed trader, with Marex Spectron providing the seed capital and intraday leverage necessary to operate as a professional trader, with successful candidates contracted to trade solely through Marex. There is no monetary commitment required by trainees for the training.

Taken from jobandtalent.com

Four months later we were told that we would be 100% liable for losses due to an unseen, necessary change to our contracts. We were also told that we would pay desk fees at their discretion not free for the first six months as promised. This is the issue.

A new set of graduates were taken on a month ago and were also told the same set of lies despite the fact that by this point Marex were aware of issues with the contract.

you dont have a leg to stand on if you take them to court. they havent issued you with a contract, they can change the course, its free, as much as they like.

isnt this the warning sign? promising you loads of v important things ie cld be the diff between being able to stay or not, yet not having it in writing. this is cheap but fairly blatant deviousness.

& do you not think they are covered legally by doing what they are doing? there is no contract signed yet. i reckon they are in the gd position - in control effectively, but its ethically questionable & as for morale its a kick in the goolies.

on my course at STA they issued the contract halfway through the course - when loads had alr been ejected.....& about a 1/5th of the course walked out on reading it.....over some wording which had no significant impact on them. but you knew what you were getting, there was no blag tactic to get ppl in with broken promises.

sounds like marex are scum. why wld they want to start your rel'ship off with aggro from the start. likely to be a disaster going fwd - with perhaps more legally covered ways to scam you for sit down fees etc. the office culture (envt) must be horrendous - though they have got a model which works, clearly there are other prop firms where their bus. model must work better - by treating ppl with respect. marex are ****ting on the grad traders from early on, & if you do show promise they're clearly going to check out another prop firm asap? ie before signing the contract.

futex & sta are the 2 i know which are ok.

 

[Liquid validity]

Depends on whether he has a confidentiality clause in his contract.
Although as rsh said, if any personal details were removed...
Wouldn't take a genius to work out who it was,
but yeah net cafe and proxy, proving it is something else.

Unless letter is not standard...bit of a gamble as you can't be certain,
without having seen the exact same letter sent to someone else.
Not sure I would want to risk it.

Four months later we were told that we would be 100% liable for losses due to an unseen, necessary change to our contracts. We were also told that we would pay desk fees at their discretion not free for the first six months as promised. This is the issue.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/nex...trader-development-program-2.html#post2175382

Does sound like some sort of initial contract is in place.

 

[rsh01]

If you want a trading job, aim for top tier.

or learn yourself, was a great journey for me. get 6-12mths of good profit record - consistent up days, but more imp show gd MM, controlled losses, running profits (depending on your style), & take your statement into a prop house & you may get a seat.

 

[rsh01]

Initial terms: 50:50 split, no liability for losses, no desk fees for six months. I was offered 100% liability for losses and no guarantee that desk would be subsidised at all.

have you bluntly asked them why they lied? you shld get a dictaphone & record it (use your phone).

i'm wondering if their actions are consistent ie part of their business model. then, if some guys signed on & lost money and are having to pay it, they perhaps you cld do a class action for deception/whatever the legal term is. esp if you incurred big losses & had to pay up.

you cannot waste someones time under the pretense that the contract includes certain terms, & then for them to pull them away right at the time of signing, which i am assuming is after quite a bit of training. they have built up your expectations, & if you do not have any other employment opportunities then you will feel pressure to sign - it cld be the signature to success, but your unhappy with the changing terms. cld this be argued that you have made the decision under duress?

also do/can you get hold of a hard copy of the pre contract terms before they changed? what a newbie shld do is keep getting them to confirm that the terms are correct, by email preferrably. or jst record them saying them, over & over.

just some thoughts. need a lawyer to come onboard here.

are they quite aggressive/mktg techniques used when trying to get you to sign contract?

wld that be financial ombudsman or trading standards you wld need to go to?

 

[barjon]

............I made steady profits trading oil calender spreads and also profited trading the CGB/T-Note Spread through figures. I lost money trading the EuroStoxx and pretty much broke even on the S+P. Overrall I was up, most of my size was in oil.

I have in front of me the original job offer with the promise of no desk fees for 6 months and 0 liability for losses and the contract that was put in front of me to sign four months later with neither of these terms. If there was an implied contract they broke it..............

.

Seems to me you have come out of this rather well compared to many of the sorry tales that have been reported on T2W.

However they may have couched the original job offer it certainly seems that you were expecting "something for nothing" which doesn't seem to me to be an altogether realistic expectation.

You then received free training which appears to have been sufficiently sound to have enabled your sim profitability on your main oil and T note trading.

You have then been asked to sign a contract which makes you liable for desk fees and losses that you may incur. Whilst one might expect the company to help out in these areas in the early days (as they seems to have indicated originally) that is hardly unreasonable.

You have chosen to walk away - it has cost you nothing but your time, but it has cost the company. On balance, they are the losers not you.

 

[random12345]

I'm sorry to hear that. I've worked in the prop business as a trader and trainer for many years, including a period with Marex. Marex were by far the most professional, honest and decent people I have worked with, so I'm surprised to hear that you weren't happy and are accusing them of being dodgy.
Out of interest, I know a lot of the posts on these forums are from disgruntled trainees or people who Marex thought weren't good enough. Sadly, it happens. Did you progress from the SIM ? Who trained you ? Were you profitable most days, or at least had more and bigger winning days than losing ones ?
FYI, despite our/my experience and best efforts in selection and coaching, for every 10 trainees we take on, about 5 just don't get it, despite excellent training and our very good track record, and we mutually agree that trading is not for them after 6-12 weeks. Of the remaining 5, they progress to between £25-50,000 a year within 12 months of going live; then within about 2 years, 2 will be making £100,000+, two £200,000+ and one up to £1m.
BTW, I no longer have anything to do with Marex directly so am unbiased, although I do clear through them and know many senior, successful traders who do also. They have a fantastic reputation built on 14 years of treating people very well, so in addition to being surprised if they did shaft you, I'd be equally surprised if they have broken a contract in any way.

I'd be interested to hear more detail of your experiences. Are you still trading ?

I think some of these figures are pie in the sky as it implies a lot of trader success @ Marex when in reality they are a broker and trading and profit split is a tiny unsuccessful slice of their income - you only have to look at their accounts to see that almost all of their revenue is from commissions and broking to external clients - not from trading profit share or anything related to trading. Their entire focus is on increasing external volumes per the directors' reports. I could almost be convinced that they rolled up some trader desk income into broker dealer activities except the fact that the accounts don't consider this to be worth noting (if this is the case, which I doubt). For a company with $350 million turnover total this is, to me, telling about the state of their 'trading' unit.

Trading activities netted $897,000 in 2012... yikes!

If they've had a similar year so far in 2013, that would explain why they are looking to wrap it up, adjust risk or downsize with contract adjustments. My view is that they will get rid of it just like Schneiders did (they were extremely happy to dump STA to Marex in the first place - I think Schneiders couldn't believe their luck when someone was willing to drop 2.5m on that unit...).

Maybe you know something I don't and can explain where all this money goes?

 

[Seenitallbefore]

14 years of success on prop training

you dont have a leg to stand on if you take them to court. they havent issued you with a contract, they can change the course, its free, as much as they like.

isnt this the warning sign? promising you loads of v important things ie cld be the diff between being able to stay or not, yet not having it in writing. this is cheap but fairly blatant deviousness.

& do you not think they are covered legally by doing what they are doing? there is no contract signed yet. i reckon they are in the gd position - in control effectively, but its ethically questionable & as for morale its a kick in the goolies.

on my course at STA they issued the contract halfway through the course - when loads had alr been ejected.....& about a 1/5th of the course walked out on reading it.....over some wording which had no significant impact on them. but you knew what you were getting, there was no blag tactic to get ppl in with broken promises.

sounds like marex are scum. why wld they want to start your rel'ship off with aggro from the start. likely to be a disaster going fwd - with perhaps more legally covered ways to scam you for sit down fees etc. the office culture (envt) must be horrendous - though they have got a model which works, clearly there are other prop firms where their bus. model must work better - by treating ppl with respect. marex are ****ting on the grad traders from early on, & if you do show promise they're clearly going to check out another prop firm asap? ie before signing the contract.

futex & sta are the 2 i know which are ok.

I'm going to leave this one here for now as we'll all be putting our twopence in forever otherwise. All I can tell you is Marex and the two people that run it, O and S, have by far the best reputation out there. The proof of the pudding is that they have been doing this and going from strength to strength for 14 years ! You don't stay in business and get bigger by screwing people.
No one really knows what happened except the person involved and Marex. Anyway, I've said what my experience has been and I'll finish this thread now because I can't add anything positive to what's been said. Personally, I would be happy to introduce any of my trainees to them, but that's just my personal experience of 13 years.

 

[random12345]

I'm going to leave this one here for now as we'll all be putting our twopence in forever otherwise. All I can tell you is Marex and the two people that run it, O and S, have by far the best reputation out there. The proof of the pudding is that they have been doing this and going from strength to strength for 14 years ! You don't stay in business and get bigger by screwing people.
No one really knows what happened except the person involved and Marex. Anyway, I've said what my experience has been and I'll finish this thread now because I can't add anything positive to what's been said. Personally, I would be happy to introduce any of my trainees to them, but that's just my personal experience of 13 years.

I agree they aren't a bad company, but they don't make any profit from speculative trading or indirect trading activities at all any more so most prop fantasies are exactly that.

http://www.marexspectron.com/Portal..._SPECTRON_2012_Accounts_Published_version.pdf

Who are O and S? Trainers I guess? Neither the chairman or the ceo have that letter in their names. No director has O at all. Unless of course these people are associated with Amphitryon Limited where a little bit of transfer pricing goes on per note 26 to the accounts. Good old Jersey!