Liquid Millionaire, ISACO, Stephen Sutherland

[cliffconway]

Does anyone have have information about a service offered in the book "Liquid Millionaire". This book is basically a sales pitch for a service called "ISA Trend Investing". The service is a shadow trading service where you pay your fee and get access to a trading strategy that involves using "trending investment funds" inside an ISA (or SIPP) wrapper. You then shadow trade what the service providers are trading. This service is "pioneered" by two brothers Stephen and Paul Sutherland.

thanks in advance,

 

[GilesR]

Have you had any replies to your post? Doesn't look like it that I can see. I too would be interesteed to know what people say.

 

[pboyles]

Does anyone have have information about a service offered in the book "Liquid Millionaire". This book is basically a sales pitch for a service called "ISA Trend Investing". The service is a shadow trading service where you pay your fee and get access to a trading strategy that involves using "trending investment funds" inside an ISA (or SIPP) wrapper. You then shadow trade what the service providers are trading. This service is "pioneered" by two brothers Stephen and Paul Sutherland.

thanks in advance,

Anything that says 'millionaire' and 'just 3 minutes work a day' in the title is going to be a rip off. So this guy claims if you follow his trades you can 'make millions' yet he appears to live in a 300k house in Oldham, hardly the millionaire lifestyle. These guys make money from selling books and courses to gullible people who believe all the millionaire hype. The only way this guy is going to make you a million is if you start with 2 million.

I see ISACO Ltd (his company) was previously called 'FILTHY RICH ENTERPRISES LIMITED', says it all really.

 

[cliffconway]

Thanks for your research - very illuminating.

 

[Pento]

Lol Filthy Rich Enterprises Ltd. Great name.

Worth buying the book if it's full of quality comedy.

 

[Bluebelle]

Download it for free (if you feel like a laugh !!!)

http://www.isaco.co.uk/media/liquid_millionaire_free.pdf

 

[Rob VS]

Hi all
isaco trend investing - reviews - is it a scam - how relevant is the information provided?

I would like to second the OP - has anyone got experience to share from actually using the service?

We can all have our opinions based on our own interpretation of something - however, this is just opinion and is biased based on our own individual beliefs/cynicism. I would like some concrete evidence on the system employed and whether it has worked for people.

I have read the book 'Liquid Millionnaire' - which is basically an advert for the Shadow Investing service the company offers.

I have also spoken to one of their team to get a feel for how they operate, the business model and whether their claims can be substantiated.

Their sales technique is very slick and is backed up by a strong track record - their claim is to consistently beat the NASDAQ - whether this be to get out of the market and park your ISA in cash during corrections or bear markets, or to be fully invested in top performing funds during bull markets.

There are some high-profile endorsements, a lot of positive reviews of the press plus numerous temp testimonials from happy clients - however, this is all part of a very slick sales approach.

I myself believe that slick sales technique and process is not necessarily evil if the product is good but would love live to hear feedback from anyone who has had a good or bad experience with this company.

Constructive thoughts??

 

[neil]

Hi all
isaco trend investing - reviews - is it a scam - how relevant is the information provided?

I would like to second the OP - has anyone got experience to share from actually using the service?

We can all have our opinions based on our own interpretation of something - however, this is just opinion and is biased based on our own individual beliefs/cynicism. I would like some concrete evidence on the system employed and whether it has worked for people.

I have read the book 'Liquid Millionnaire' - which is basically an advert for the Shadow Investing service the company offers.

I have also spoken to one of their team to get a feel for how they operate, the business model and whether their claims can be substantiated.

Their sales technique is very slick and is backed up by a strong track record - their claim is to consistently beat the NASDAQ - whether this be to get out of the market and park your ISA in cash during corrections or bear markets, or to be fully invested in top performing funds during bull markets.

There are some high-profile endorsements, a lot of positive reviews of the press plus numerous temp testimonials from happy clients - however, this is all part of a very slick sales approach.

I myself believe that slick sales technique and process is not necessarily evil if the product is good but would love live to hear feedback from anyone who has had a good or bad experience with this company.

Constructive thoughts??

Oh- FFS-A Fool and his money ! - I suppose it's pointless, after a while, trying to stop lemmings jumping off a cliff.

 

[Trankuility]

Those than can, do. Those that can't, teach.

 

[Rob VS]

Liking the "fool and his money" comment - particularly constructive to people reading the thread and wanting information ... and very presumptive of my character and financial situation ... however I understand if you are not a fan of such products and are skeptical.

I understand the cynicism as this is my opinion on companies offering such promises - however just to play devil's advocate to see if anyone picks up this thread who has had actual experience with this company and model ....

What are the thoughts on the theory investing in funds (not shares) using your ISA allowance and parking in cash when the market seriously corrects to then re-invest when the markets/funds pick up again?

"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach." - I have learnt lots of important things from very successful people in business who not only can and do, but also teach. Many people who post on this and other specialist forums can and do but also teach aswell. The key is whether people can, do and teach aswell - and put their money where their mouth is so to speak.

A more appropriate comment would be "those who post on forums with constructive advice based on fact are helpful, those who are negative with no reasoning, aren't" - just to play the same game.

I imagine the answer to my question and the OP is that there is no-one posting with any experiences of the above company - which is ominous.
This could be a good thing (I myself would be making any negative experiences known to other people by posting on forums to help prevent any more lemmings falling off the cliff).

 

[anley]

What are the thoughts on the theory investing in funds (not shares) using your ISA allowance and parking in cash when the market seriously corrects to then re-invest when the markets/funds pick up again?

it's a great strategy but try to do it successfully.......

What you're basically saying is sell around the highs and then buy around the lows. Again, try to do it in realtime trading.

 

[pboyles]

A more appropriate comment would be "those who post on forums with constructive advice based on fact are helpful, those who are negative with no reasoning, aren't" - just to play the same game.

I imagine the answer to my question and the OP is that there is no-one posting with any experiences of the above company - which is ominous.
This could be a good thing (I myself would be making any negative experiences known to other people by posting on forums to help prevent any more lemmings falling off the cliff).

You have been given constructive advice, don't get involved in these schemes. Perhaps it wasn't put in the way you expected but if you saw the number of people who come on here asking questions like this then you'd appreciate the frustration of seeing yet another person ignoring all advice (and common sense). It seems you have convinced yourself this is a great idea and now you are desperately searching for someone to tell you that you're right. Anyone who says otherwise isnt being constructive in your mind.

Think of it this way, if an elderly relative told you he got an e mail from a Nigerian general who needed help transferring money you'd tell him to have nothing to do with it (at least I hope you would). You wouldn't need to have direct experience of the general to know it was a scam. In this case you are the pensioner intent on losing your money and we are the relatives trying to get you to wise up. Why we bother I don't know.

If you get involved with things like this you will lose your money. Get used to the idea, there's no free money.

 

[netarcher]

There is a thread on Motley Fool
http://boards.fool.co.uk/hi-im-stephens-brother-paul-sutherland-and-11788258.aspx?sort=postdate

 

[dmt257]

Do people not actually want to learn how to trade anymore? Is everyone after the quick and easy fix?

Im still learning the ropes myself, but Im sure we will get out of this business what we put in.

 

[markfrom]

Hi Rob VS
Have you, or any body else, found out any more about 'Liquid Millionaire'?
Like you, I have looked at the system, read the book and the theory does make sense.
Some of the phrases 'make millions....etc' are unfortunate but I personally think the idea does make sense.....but only if you read it and dont make judgements based on headlines.

 

[pboyles]

Have a bit of sense, the guy lives in a house in Oldham but claims to be a millionaire. I mean really, apply some common sense here.

 

[anley]

Do people not actually want to learn how to trade anymore? Is everyone after the quick and easy fix?

Im still learning the ropes myself, but Im sure we will get out of this business what we put in.

Excellent point and you're right, most people have been trained to want and expect it all within a few days. And this is what the books/seminars sell - basically the dream + little or no work needed.

99% then wonder where it all went wrong and hopefully some of them will realise that a) they were set up by the marketing, and b) the real person to blame is looking at them in the mirror.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Oh- FFS-A Fool and his money ! - I suppose it's pointless, after a while, trying to stop lemmings jumping off a cliff.

Lemmings jumping off a cliff was a made up story with Disney throwing the poor little buggers into the sea when filming. My opinion is that people using this get rich quick service will suffer the same fate.

 

[Rob VS]

Hi Mark/Others
I hadn't received notification of responses to my post until last week - thanks for the constructive posts and advice - again still no-one posting who has had a good or bad experience of the service.

Thanks to the experienced people posting here for bearing with us lemmings as I understand it must be frustrating - liked the Nigerian email analogy!

I have not invested with ISACO or met/spoken to anyone who has - they offered this as a potential option when I was speaking to their sales consultant on the phone but I didn't take the chance as the cost of the service Vs the amount I want to invest doesn't fit for me so didn't want to waste anyone's time (if indeed they would let me contact a genuine client).

I have received an email stating they are now FSA regulated btw - is that of any significance or is it fairly easy to gain this approval?


Long answer to this but thought my experiences and thoughts may trigger some debate from other newbie's and experienced people alike.

Just to explain - I am clearly new to investing / trading and have a relatively small ISA pot earmarked for stocks and shares as I learn the market with a view to putting more cash in as things develop.
However, I want to read and learn as much as possible before making any decisions - hence the post on the forum.

I figured that investing in funds are also a good way to mitigate risk from individual stocks and therefore the idea of 'actively' trading out of them if the market is correcting seems to be a sound principle - just obviously very difficult in realtime as mentioned above.



The principle
The author cites William O'Neil and his books and I have read a few of his books - the principles in these seem to be good for novice investors like myself. I would welcome comments and suggestions from other people reading this post btw on this book and others.

It seems to me that the author has read and applied those principles to make his gains which are very much advertised ad-infinitum in the Liquid Millionaire book. He has also read many other marketing and self-promotion books and in my view created a niche of selling his own material based on applying those same principles to a unique area - ISAs and funds.

I personally do not necessarily disagree with this principle on a personal note as it is this person's chosen way to generate income and revenue - but these things are only good if the product/training being sold is worth it.


The service
I had a couple of detailed conversations with one of the sales team at ISACO. As I have a recruitment business myself I recognise very slick sales techniques and was very impressed (from a sales industry point of view) with the way they conduct the conversation and 'sales cycle'!

However, when the sales pitch is so slick and requires you to have read the book (which is an extended brochure in itself) then it does raise alarm bells about the actual product.

I also found the fact that you pay a lump sum for the service up front uncomfortable - I can't remember the exact amounts but I think for 10 years of the service it was just over £10k. With graduated lower amounts for 5 years or 7 years.

More alarm bells ringing as you then have parted with your cash without any indication of what would be required.

I also believe in learning to do something yourself as best you can before paying other people - that way you can get a better idea of value.

If I had £100k+ to invest with little time on my hands and knowing that I will keep topping up this ISA with £10-20k per year comfortably then the risk/reward for their service would be very different.

The other thing is that there has been a bull market since 2009 and therefore the returns they want investors to be 'comfortable' with are cited as 12% pa and they have delivered between 30 and 60% returns in the past 2 years (don't quote me on the exact returns).

In the past 2 years, dare I say as someone with little experience that some solid research of your own into funds - including learning how to use morningstar properly (not something I am even close to yet) - then you have had a good chance of making those returns yourself??
Answers welcome to that comment - am I being naive here using 20:20 hindsight?

During severe market corrections then that is where their advice may come in handy on how and when to get out into cash rather than hold on - and this is where they say that all their clients were into cash ISAs during any major corrections since the service started (which I think was 8 years ago)

This is where I would like to hear people's experience.

Summary
Apologies for the essay but thought I'd share all of my thoughts which may help other people who are in a simlar position to me.

As many comments as possible about my opinion would be great. Especially from experienced investors/professionals.

And of course - the holy grail would be posts from anyone who may have used the ISACO service - good or bad.

Regards
Rob

 

[Rob VS]

Excellent point and you're right, most people have been trained to want and expect it all within a few days. And this is what the books/seminars sell - basically the dream + little or no work needed.

99% then wonder where it all went wrong and hopefully some of them will realise that a) they were set up by the marketing, and b) the real person to blame is looking at them in the mirror.

Agreed - hence the benefit of getting advice on these forums.