Libya wises up, realize that USA/UK Coalition are not to be messed with. Gives up WMD
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madasafish
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Darren
Read your history.. I'm stating FACTS not suppositions...
Read your history.. I'm stating FACTS not suppositions...
It’s often said that the truth is one of the first casualties of war; but speaking of facts, I suggest that you would learn more if you were to find out who really armed Sadam over the past three decades: you’ll find out more here – assuming that is, that you really want to?! 
It doubt if anyone will accuse the Campaign Against the Arms Trade of being pro-American, but it seems that CAAT believes that France and Soviet Union were the villains of the “peace”, and that by comparison UK and US had little involvement in the arming of Sadam.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute is also a good source of material and you can check out their database of articles from a range of reputable sources, such as: WAO, FIIA, CIDOB and NATO here .
HTH
Cheers
Mayfly
It doubt if anyone will accuse the Campaign Against the Arms Trade of being pro-American, but it seems that CAAT believes that France and Soviet Union were the villains of the “peace”, and that by comparison UK and US had little involvement in the arming of Sadam.
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute is also a good source of material and you can check out their database of articles from a range of reputable sources, such as: WAO, FIIA, CIDOB and NATO here .
HTH
Cheers
Mayfly
Madasafish
Mayfly pointed out some FACTS.
Can we now look forward to your condemnation of France:
Major arms supplier to Saddam
Invader of Indo China
Invasion and mass slaughter in Algeria
And condemnation of the USSR:
Major arms supplier to Saddam
Invader of Afghanistan
Mass slaughter of 4000 Polish officers in 1940
Killed 20 millon of it's own citzens.
We await your condemnation. I mean, you wouldn't want to be accused of being a wishy washy left wing liberal who only bashes the US and conveniently ignores the others - would you?
Mayfly pointed out some FACTS.
Can we now look forward to your condemnation of France:
Major arms supplier to Saddam
Invader of Indo China
Invasion and mass slaughter in Algeria
And condemnation of the USSR:
Major arms supplier to Saddam
Invader of Afghanistan
Mass slaughter of 4000 Polish officers in 1940
Killed 20 millon of it's own citzens.
We await your condemnation. I mean, you wouldn't want to be accused of being a wishy washy left wing liberal who only bashes the US and conveniently ignores the others - would you?
madasafish
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where have I bashed the US alone in this thread?
I just pointed out some facts..
Of course the French killed 000s in Algeria nad the Russians millions as well.
Now who were our allies in WW2? France and Russia...
All I am trying to point out to the people who post a one sided view of the world is that things are never that simple..
After all, the US killed about 250,000 civilians with nuclear bombs...
And we killed millions of Africans in our empire.. and Indians and we killed lots of Irish and so-on.
If you want to claim we are perfect go on...
I just pointed out some facts..
Of course the French killed 000s in Algeria nad the Russians millions as well.
Now who were our allies in WW2? France and Russia...
All I am trying to point out to the people who post a one sided view of the world is that things are never that simple..
After all, the US killed about 250,000 civilians with nuclear bombs...
And we killed millions of Africans in our empire.. and Indians and we killed lots of Irish and so-on.
If you want to claim we are perfect go on...
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It's just human nature anyway
<i>After all, the US killed about 250,000 civilians with nuclear bombs</i>
Germany killed 6 million Jews in its concentration camps.
Germany killed 7 million Russians in WWII
Germany killed 6 million Allied soldiers in WWI
Shouldn't we therefor just nuke Germany?
The Americans have a bit of credit left let so are playing catch-up.
This thread really is ridiculous, War kills, no Country is perfect, politicians less so.
JonnyT
Germany killed 6 million Jews in its concentration camps.
Germany killed 7 million Russians in WWII
Germany killed 6 million Allied soldiers in WWI
Shouldn't we therefor just nuke Germany?
The Americans have a bit of credit left let so are playing catch-up.
This thread really is ridiculous, War kills, no Country is perfect, politicians less so.
JonnyT
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George Bush probably wishes he was German so he could take some credit for all that.
Darren.
No one seems to be suggesting that US is the only country in the world that does evil things,but there again none are signing their posts GOD BLESS WHOEVER!!
The point is that you are very naive to believe that the US does its evil deeds for the good of humanity.They bomb countries with impunity whenever it suits their political needs.Again,I say that I doubt if any US poitician could name the countries they have bombed since WW2.
Saddam sealed his fate in Nov 2000 when he switched the currency of Iraq's oil from the Dollar to the Euro.It was then that the US decided to take him out.Not Sept11,not Bin Laden,not Afghanistan,not WMD.Of course they restored the Dollar after taking Baghdad!!!
Next in line is Iran.The government announced last year that they may switch the oil currency from the Dollar to the Euro(poor b*ggers).
Darren with your obsession about reds under the bed,I suggest you pay tribute not to the US but to the Afghans.They are the ones who led,directly and indirectly,to the collapse of the Russian Empire.
You need a level 2 screen to see what the Market Makers(politicians)are doing Darren!!!!!!!!!
No one seems to be suggesting that US is the only country in the world that does evil things,but there again none are signing their posts GOD BLESS WHOEVER!!
The point is that you are very naive to believe that the US does its evil deeds for the good of humanity.They bomb countries with impunity whenever it suits their political needs.Again,I say that I doubt if any US poitician could name the countries they have bombed since WW2.
Saddam sealed his fate in Nov 2000 when he switched the currency of Iraq's oil from the Dollar to the Euro.It was then that the US decided to take him out.Not Sept11,not Bin Laden,not Afghanistan,not WMD.Of course they restored the Dollar after taking Baghdad!!!
Next in line is Iran.The government announced last year that they may switch the oil currency from the Dollar to the Euro(poor b*ggers).
Darren with your obsession about reds under the bed,I suggest you pay tribute not to the US but to the Afghans.They are the ones who led,directly and indirectly,to the collapse of the Russian Empire.
You need a level 2 screen to see what the Market Makers(politicians)are doing Darren!!!!!!!!!
In the past few years the US have diposed a democratically elected government and installed a dictatorship-Gutaemeala, Iran, Brazil, Cambodia, Zaire and Indonesia to name but a few in the last 50 years-not to help the people of those countries (because they certainly havent!) but to help america take over the world!
Forget blaming different countries-the point here is that anyone who thinks that there are any of these governments which are not corrupt is incredibly naive and stupid-they are only there to serve there own ends and needs-not to satisfy the public as a whole-perhaps darrren should stop reading fairytales
Forget blaming different countries-the point here is that anyone who thinks that there are any of these governments which are not corrupt is incredibly naive and stupid-they are only there to serve there own ends and needs-not to satisfy the public as a whole-perhaps darrren should stop reading fairytales
Madasafish
I take your point, but I must reply.
Re France and USSR or Allies in WW2, the Algerian massacres hadn't taken place, the Katyn Polish officers massacre was not discovered until 1943 and was assumed to be the work of the Nazis until USSR held it's hands up in 1989. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes you have to get in to bed with unsavoury characters for the greater good - in this case, preventing Nazi Germany taking over Europe.
Re the US use of the A bomb, the civilian deaths were a tragedy, but once again, the analogy is of protecting your own, particularly when you were not the aggressor. The Japanese had demonstrated for 3 years that they would fight to the bitter end and the US knew thousands of their people would die in the process. Either them or us - they chose them. Just as you or I would do if it was our own family. If it was possible to avoid civilian casualties and take out the the whole military instead, it would have done so.
As for Africa, I venture to suggest you are many, many millions off the mark with your quoted death toll. It is a pity that colonial rule ended in Africa as it would still have a good chance of joining the modern World.
The African countries with any sort of structure and society are ex British colonies ie S. Africa, kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Zimbabwe etc. Look what is going on in each of those places now we have left.
The civilian populations have been and still are, subjected to carnage on a grand scale - I bet they would welcome the return of British governance as they watch their kin get maimed and slaughtered.
I take your point, but I must reply.
Re France and USSR or Allies in WW2, the Algerian massacres hadn't taken place, the Katyn Polish officers massacre was not discovered until 1943 and was assumed to be the work of the Nazis until USSR held it's hands up in 1989. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes you have to get in to bed with unsavoury characters for the greater good - in this case, preventing Nazi Germany taking over Europe.
Re the US use of the A bomb, the civilian deaths were a tragedy, but once again, the analogy is of protecting your own, particularly when you were not the aggressor. The Japanese had demonstrated for 3 years that they would fight to the bitter end and the US knew thousands of their people would die in the process. Either them or us - they chose them. Just as you or I would do if it was our own family. If it was possible to avoid civilian casualties and take out the the whole military instead, it would have done so.
As for Africa, I venture to suggest you are many, many millions off the mark with your quoted death toll. It is a pity that colonial rule ended in Africa as it would still have a good chance of joining the modern World.
The African countries with any sort of structure and society are ex British colonies ie S. Africa, kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Zimbabwe etc. Look what is going on in each of those places now we have left.
The civilian populations have been and still are, subjected to carnage on a grand scale - I bet they would welcome the return of British governance as they watch their kin get maimed and slaughtered.
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I'll give that an Amen
Johnk49
The USSR tried to invade Afghanistan and failed - end of story.
The collapse of the Soviet Union was the direct result of the Americans always standing up to them, a realist called Gorbachev coming to power and the masses deciding East Germany was no life and took matters into their own hands. The USSR finally got the message
I don't know how old you are, but Reds under the bed was no illusion. Given their way our Capital would be Londonski. God, I'd even rather have Tony Blair in Charge that some Russian Maniac.
The USSR tried to invade Afghanistan and failed - end of story.
The collapse of the Soviet Union was the direct result of the Americans always standing up to them, a realist called Gorbachev coming to power and the masses deciding East Germany was no life and took matters into their own hands. The USSR finally got the message
I don't know how old you are, but Reds under the bed was no illusion. Given their way our Capital would be Londonski. God, I'd even rather have Tony Blair in Charge that some Russian Maniac.
MCGF
See, there you are, we agree on something. ALL Governments are corrupt in their own way.
What I detest is the fashion for knocking the USA at any given chance.
Those who constantly knock it, without ever giving examples of other countries misdeeds, also, privately, thank God they are under the umbrella of it's protection. Their motto: I knock it but I also need it.
When the chips are down, they would be the first to knock the US if it said it had decided not to defend Europe in future.
Never mind, they'll have the French to defend them. LOL
See, there you are, we agree on something. ALL Governments are corrupt in their own way.
What I detest is the fashion for knocking the USA at any given chance.
Those who constantly knock it, without ever giving examples of other countries misdeeds, also, privately, thank God they are under the umbrella of it's protection. Their motto: I knock it but I also need it.
When the chips are down, they would be the first to knock the US if it said it had decided not to defend Europe in future.
Never mind, they'll have the French to defend them. LOL
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This thread has become a nonsense.
Don't you guys trade ?
Don't you guys trade ?
It is knocked because it sticks its oar in everywhere, is the most vocal nation about how other nations should be governed, has the most power, is the most obviously hypocritical nation on planet earth and is the one nation that can totally ignore what the UN says and does whatever the hell it likes-that tends to cause a bit of upset, tension and hatred towards them